..................................................................

[grifferz]

But what made me somewhat confident that mtgox was going to be ok was that there was the Bitcoin Foundation meeting but they made no statement about mtgox

Where did the Foundation say that MtGox or any other individual or bitcoin business was answerable to them?

I am amazed that they even managed to get MtGox's resignation from their board.

I think you vastly overestimate the power and relevance of the Bitcoin Foundation.

There are plenty of smart people involved in bitcoin, who pass along verifiable facts and clearly mark their own speculation as speculation. Then there are a much greater number of people who don't know their arse from their elbow, yet feel comfortable making statements of fact that turn out to not be fact.

If you want other people to sort these two groups of people for you and just tell you what to do then bitcoin right now is not for you. This lesson only seems to be learnt during the hard times, not the times when it feels like we are going to the Moon.

[waxwing]

Although some of it is conspiracy-theory-esque, I agree with a lot of the sentiments in this thread - the whole situations smells bad. Between Gox, the Foundation, "industry leaders" (whatever) and FUD document leaks, something is not right in this story at all. Something bigger might well be behind it.

But you know, on Wall Street and in the hedge fund industry they have an important slang term "OPM" - other people's money. Playing with OPM is very different than playing with your own. Between kickbacks and connections and form-filling, they make very sure that losing it all is of no consequence to them.

When it comes to money, which after all is power, don't put your trust in any kind of authority, no matter how much reputation, history, might, charisma or qualifications it has, because the chance is they will either (a) rob you blind or (b) treat your money with the respect they have for all OPM - i.e. none.

Let them play their games - choose exit, it's the only choice you really have.

[bomb7]

I think you vastly overestimate the power and relevance of the Bitcoin Foundation.

Did, yes. I misunderstood what their role was.

There are plenty of smart people involved in bitcoin, who pass along verifiable facts and clearly mark their own speculation as speculation. Then there are a much greater number of people who don't know their arse from their elbow, yet feel comfortable making statements of fact that turn out to not be fact.

If you want other people to sort these two groups of people for you and just tell you what to do then bitcoin right now is not for you. This lesson only seems to be learnt during the hard times, not the times when it feels like we are going to the Moon.

I don`t want anyone to tell me what to do, that`s the point. I`m not going to be assuming anyone is right just because they hold a certain position in the community. I`m going to look at the fundamentals and sentiment for myself. But you`re right, that`s a lesson learned through experience.

[benjamindees]

Conspiracy or not, there is a small circle of connections between certain investors in Bitcoin, US law enforcement, hackers, and a lengthening list of failed, likely scuttled, Bitcoin exchanges.

FBI: LulzSec leader working for us for at least the last six months

FBI directed LulzSec in hacks at the time of major Bitcoin thefts

MtGox partners with BitInstant to service US customers

CEO of CoinLab is Chairman of Bitcoin Foundation

"Coinlab are sneaky bastards, investors behind Bitcoinica"

Coinlab sues MtGox for $75 million over US customers

Bitcoin Foundation meets with regulators, law enforcement

Feds seize MtGox accounts

BitInstant CEO arrested

Bitcoin Foundation praises US regulators

NY Bitcoin regulator plans to divide and conquer

FBI: Alternative Currencies are "Domestic Terrorism" -- "We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling"

If you want to understand what is really happening in Bitcoin, go ahead and read some of these threads.  I don't post this shit for my health.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
during those few days all these well-known Bitcoin figures were saying they were convinced Gox would be fine.
- snip -

I didn't see that at all?  Can you provide a link to even one instance in the past few days of someone from the Bitcoin Foundation (or any well-informed member of the bitcoin community) saying the were convinced Gox would be fine?

[bananas]

Guys, don't want to spread FUD.

Just facts:

- All actors under joint statement KNEW ABOUT THE SITUATION.
That means all of them are pretty much responsible for this situation and most of all, they acted jointly. The first statement had insolvency written into, then they changed it. THEY ACTUALLY KNEW!!! AND THEY PROFITED OF PEOPLE BEFUDDLED BY STATEMENTS (Gox statements, blockchain, Roger Ver etc etc)

That's a matter of fact, nobody can deny it.

Bitcoin is looking just like a big scam.

[bananas]

- snip -
during those few days all these well-known Bitcoin figures were saying they were convinced Gox would be fine.
- snip -

I didn't see that at all?  Can you provide a link to even one instance in the past few days of someone from the Bitcoin Foundation (or any well-informed member of the bitcoin community) saying the were convinced Gox would be fine?

I don't have links, but i also read several of them saying that on the news, twitter etc, they were the ones who signed the contradictory statement.

[Beef Supreme]

Guys, don't want to spread FUD.

Just facts:

- All actors under joint statement KNEW ABOUT THE SITUATION.
That means all of them are pretty much responsible for this situation and most of all, they acted jointly. The first statement had insolvency written into, then they changed it. THEY ACTUALLY KNEW!!! AND THEY PROFITED OF PEOPLE BEFUDDLED BY STATEMENTS (Gox statements, blockchain, Roger Ver etc etc)

- Now that Gox will be gone EXPECT HEAVY REGULATORY RISK.
The first exchanges to go down will be probably Bitstamp and Btc-e as they are located in Europe and Europe will heavily regulate exchanges as they promised, especially off-shored ones.

Don't be surprised if you see this topic removed and my nickname banned because there is an agenda and corruption probably in the whole 'foundation' if not the whole 'core developers' team.

My suggestion - either keep USD/EUR mostly for now if you think you can handle loosing it or withdraw bitcoins if you believe in this beautiful technology.

I want to put a question of 'Bitcoin foundation' TRUST insolvency, as well as core developers and this forum administrators/moderators.

They all DID KNOW obviously.  Gox should have informed users of stopping transfers (BTC/fiat), as soon as they stopped withdrawals.  The fact that they did not warn customers of their impending collapse is criminal!

[bananas]

Everything was coordinated and synchronized: Gox shutdown, industry contradictory statement, obvious fake inside document leak on major news. There is no theory, shit is going on for real.

[quone17]

Guys, don't want to spread FUD.

Just facts:

- All actors under joint statement KNEW ABOUT THE SITUATION.
That means all of them are pretty much responsible for this situation and most of all, they acted jointly. The first statement had insolvency written into, then they changed it. THEY ACTUALLY KNEW!!! AND THEY PROFITED OF PEOPLE BEFUDDLED BY STATEMENTS (Gox statements, blockchain, Roger Ver etc etc)

- Now that Gox will be gone EXPECT HEAVY REGULATORY RISK.
The first exchanges to go down will be probably Bitstamp and Btc-e as they are located in Europe and Europe will heavily regulate exchanges as they promised, especially off-shored ones.

Don't be surprised if you see this topic removed and my nickname banned because there is an agenda and corruption probably in the whole 'foundation' if not the whole 'core developers' team.

My suggestion - either keep USD/EUR mostly for now if you think you can handle loosing it or withdraw bitcoins if you believe in this beautiful technology.

I want to put a question of 'Bitcoin foundation' TRUST insolvency, as well as core developers and this forum administrators/moderators.

They all DID KNOW obviously.  Gox should have informed users of stopping transfers (BTC/fiat), as soon as they stopped withdrawals.  The fact that they did not warn customers of their impending collapse is criminal!

Yes, it could very well be criminal.  I don't know which entity is going to do anything about it though.  The Japanese authorities, from what I've read, are taking a big hands off approach.  THey did market in the US so I think you could sue them in the US.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
during those few days all these well-known Bitcoin figures were saying they were convinced Gox would be fine.
- snip -

I didn't see that at all?  Can you provide a link to even one instance in the past few days of someone from the Bitcoin Foundation (or any well-informed member of the bitcoin community) saying the were convinced Gox would be fine?

I don't have links, but i also read several of them saying that on the news, twitter etc, they were the ones who signed the contradictory statement.

If anyone has a single link to any of the following people saying they were convinced Gox would be fine during the past few days, I'd really like to see it.  I suspect that the people saying such things were not the people whose names are on the "join statement":

• Fred Ehrsam
• Brian Armstrong
• Jesse Powell
• Nejc Kodrič
• Bobby Lee
• Nicolas Cary
• Jeremy Allaire

The fact that you heard someone say that "Gox would be fine" doesn't mean you heard any of those people say it.  If any of them did say it, I'd like to know because, I'll refuse to use any service they are ever associated with  again and will recommend that others avoid it as well.  However, I won't take such strong action based on what someone thinks someone else might have said.

[bananas]

- snip -
during those few days all these well-known Bitcoin figures were saying they were convinced Gox would be fine.
- snip -

I didn't see that at all?  Can you provide a link to even one instance in the past few days of someone from the Bitcoin Foundation (or any well-informed member of the bitcoin community) saying the were convinced Gox would be fine?

I don't have links, but i also read several of them saying that on the news, twitter etc, they were the ones who signed the contradictory statement.

If anyone has a single link to any of the following people saying they were convinced Gox would be fine during the past few days, I'd really like to see it.  I suspect that the people saying such things were not the people whose names are on the "join statement":

That popular guy with a big strange east european name...find his twitter and you read several statements of this kind. I think he is from blockchain.info, but not he one on the list.

Everything else i read over the news,  a research will have to be done.

The foundation message board is full of liars too.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
during those few days all these well-known Bitcoin figures were saying they were convinced Gox would be fine.
- snip -

I didn't see that at all?  Can you provide a link to even one instance in the past few days of someone from the Bitcoin Foundation (or any well-informed member of the bitcoin community) saying they were convinced Gox would be fine?

I don't have links, but i also read several of them saying that on the news, twitter etc, they were the ones who signed the contradictory statement.

If anyone has a single link to any of the following people saying they were convinced Gox would be fine during the past few days, I'd really like to see it.  I suspect that the people saying such things were not the people whose names are on the "join statement":

That popular guy with a big strange east european name...find his twitter and you read several statements of this kind. I think he is from blockchain.info, i don't remember.
Everything else i read over the news,  a research will have to be done.

The foundation message board is full of liars too.

I don't see any strange east European names on the "joint statement".  This is exactly what I'm talking about.  You heard some guy say something you don't like, and you automatically attribute it to a group you don't like.

I'm not saying that the signatories on the "joint statement" didn't make claims that "they were convinced Gox would be fine", I'm just saying that I haven't seen it, and I won't make judgements based on rumors and false accusations.  Show me a reliable link and I'll back you up.  I'll tell everyone to avoid any service they are associated with.

That goes for any of the board members of The Bitcoin Foundation as well.  I'd like to see just one reliable link from the past few days of any of the following people making claims that "they were convinced Gox would be fine":

• Gavin Andresen
• Micky Malka
• Jon Matonis
• Elizabeth T. Ploshay
• Peter Vessenes
• Patrick Murck

If such links don't exist, then you're just as bad as you are accusing them of being.  You are making false statements based on rumors or false knowledge to try and destroy the reputations of people that aren't proven to have done the things you are accusing them of.

If you don't like someone, or an organization, go ahead and say that you don't like them, but there is no need to be throwing around unsubstantiated accusations.

[bananas]

- snip -
during those few days all these well-known Bitcoin figures were saying they were convinced Gox would be fine.
- snip -

I didn't see that at all?  Can you provide a link to even one instance in the past few days of someone from the Bitcoin Foundation (or any well-informed member of the bitcoin community) saying they were convinced Gox would be fine?

I don't have links, but i also read several of them saying that on the news, twitter etc, they were the ones who signed the contradictory statement.

If anyone has a single link to any of the following people saying they were convinced Gox would be fine during the past few days, I'd really like to see it.  I suspect that the people saying such things were not the people whose names are on the "join statement":

That popular guy with a big strange east european name...find his twitter and you read several statements of this kind. I think he is from blockchain.info, i don't remember.
Everything else i read over the news,  a research will have to be done.

The foundation message board is full of liars too.

I don't see any strange east European names on the "joint statement".  This is exactly what I'm talking about.  You heard some guy say something you don't like, and you automatically attribute it to a group you don't like.

I don't know if he is a company owner. But he is someone very relevant and popular, almost sure that he is from blockchain.info, he was supposed working to help Gox to fix his bug. You guys must know who i'm talking about.

[dancingnancy]

Everything was coordinated and synchronized: Gox shutdown, industry contradictory statement, obvious fake inside document leak on major news. There is no theory, shit is going on for real.

I have to agree 100%.  Only lost about $50k to these criminals. 

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
during those few days all these well-known Bitcoin figures were saying they were convinced Gox would be fine.
- snip -

I didn't see that at all?  Can you provide a link to even one instance in the past few days of someone from the Bitcoin Foundation (or any well-informed member of the bitcoin community) saying they were convinced Gox would be fine?

I don't have links, but i also read several of them saying that on the news, twitter etc, they were the ones who signed the contradictory statement.

If anyone has a single link to any of the following people saying they were convinced Gox would be fine during the past few days, I'd really like to see it.  I suspect that the people saying such things were not the people whose names are on the "join statement":

That popular guy with a big strange east european name...find his twitter and you read several statements of this kind. I think he is from blockchain.info, i don't remember.
Everything else i read over the news,  a research will have to be done.

The foundation message board is full of liars too.

I don't see any strange east European names on the "joint statement".  This is exactly what I'm talking about.  You heard some guy say something you don't like, and you automatically attribute it to a group you don't like.

I don't know if he is a company owner. But he is someone very relevant and popular, almost sure that he is from blockchain.info, he was supposed working to help Gox to fix his bug. You guys must know who i'm talking about.

So, one guy that you think is popular says something.  He's not a board member of The Bitcoin Foundation, and he's not a signatory on the "joint statement".  And because this "popular" guy says something, you decide that: "read several of them saying that on the news, twitter etc, they were the ones who signed the contradictory statement"?

Sorry, that's not how it works.

[grifferz]

Sorry, that's not how it works.

You are debating with someone who felt it was okay to start a topic entitled "MtGox CEO confirms insolvency" and then refused to change that to reflect facts. It is a lost cause.

[DannyHamilton]

Sorry, that's not how it works.

You are debating with someone who felt it was okay to start a topic entitled "MtGox CEO confirms insolvency" and then refused to change that to reflect facts. It is a lost cause.

I know.  I'm not doing it for his sake.  The point is to make sure that other more logically thinking people that happen to stumble into this thread have a logical response to read.  If claims are made that aren't refuted, it can create an impression that the claim stands as accepted by the community.  Eventually I'll get bored with the conversation and move on, but by then there will at least be plenty of evidence in the thread that the claims being made are unsupported.

On the other hand, I truly mean it when I say that if there is any evidence of the claims I'll wholeheartedly refuse to use any service that the accused is associated with and will consistently recommend that others avoid the service as well.

[grifferz]

You are debating with someone who felt it was okay to start a topic entitled "MtGox CEO confirms insolvency" and then refused to change that to reflect facts. It is a lost cause.

I know.  I'm not doing it for his sake.  The point is to make sure that other more logically thinking people that happen to stumble into this thread have a logical response to read.  If claims are made that aren't refuted, it can create an impression that the claim stands as accepted by the community.  Eventually I'll get bored with the conversation and move on, but by then there will at least be plenty of evidence in the thread that the claims being made are unsupported.

It's a bit disheartening when they just flood the place with whatever bizarre statements they feel will get views, regardless of truth, wait until any calls to reason have fallen off the front page and then start new topics that say the same things.

You're doing good work and I do appreciate it.

[bananas]

- snip -
during those few days all these well-known Bitcoin figures were saying they were convinced Gox would be fine.
- snip -

I didn't see that at all?  Can you provide a link to even one instance in the past few days of someone from the Bitcoin Foundation (or any well-informed member of the bitcoin community) saying they were convinced Gox would be fine?

I don't have links, but i also read several of them saying that on the news, twitter etc, they were the ones who signed the contradictory statement.

If anyone has a single link to any of the following people saying they were convinced Gox would be fine during the past few days, I'd really like to see it.  I suspect that the people saying such things were not the people whose names are on the "join statement":

That popular guy with a big strange east european name...find his twitter and you read several statements of this kind. I think he is from blockchain.info, i don't remember.
Everything else i read over the news,  a research will have to be done.

The foundation message board is full of liars too.

I don't see any strange east European names on the "joint statement".  This is exactly what I'm talking about.  You heard some guy say something you don't like, and you automatically attribute it to a group you don't like.

I don't know if he is a company owner. But he is someone very relevant and popular, almost sure that he is from blockchain.info, he was supposed working to help Gox to fix his bug. You guys must know who i'm talking about.

So, one guy that you think is popular says something.  He's not a board member of The Bitcoin Foundation, and he's not a signatory on the "joint statement".  And because this "popular" guy says something, you decide that: "read several of them saying that on the news, twitter etc, they were the ones who signed the contradictory statement"?

Sorry, that's not how it works.

He was from one of those companies and was directly in contact with Mark.