How to recover your money as a small time investor with funds in mtgox

[acidwing]

Hi everybody.

It looks like the writing is on the wall for mtgox.

There must be lot's of people like me who only had a small amount there, less than ten bitcoins. I also had 1000 euro's in withdrawal limbo since last month. Like a total fool, I transferred my bitcoin there just before all this started in order to cash out at the higher gox price. Now it looks like mtgox is all broken.

Is there any way to recover some of my losses? I read about a "multi plaintiff suit" on another thread but they were only interested in people who lost $10000 or more. My 2.34 BTC I still had on gox might get called "property" of mtgox and be given to other investors or creditors to pay them off. That wouldn't be fair at all. 2.34 BTC may not sound like much but it was a lot to me. Regardless of whether they are property or currency, they are still mine and I should get them back if they have them.

What would be the best way for small investors like me to get some of our funds back from mtgox?

AW

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[JJKirsch]

I think it is better to find other investors who has their small amount stuck in MtGox and sue the MtGox

[acidwing]

I agree. I think lots of people working together is our best chance.

Perhaps anyone else in a similar situation could post here or PM me?

Mtgox bragged on it's site that it was the "safest" exchange. Provided they didn't get robbed of all those bitcoin should still be there (and as I understand it there would be significant evidence if it had been robbed). Is mtgox simply the custodian of my bitcoin? I can't think of a better example but say if ebay went bust, I wouldn't expect all the items listed there to be given to the creditors, even if ebay were storing them in a big warehouse somewhere as part of its business model. Is this any different or am I missing something?

[bitcoinsolicitor]

I am a qualified solicitor authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority in Engand.

My law firm Selachii LLP would be please to assist / advise those located in the UK.

To discuss any potential matters please call + 44 (0) 20 7792 5649 or email info (at) selachii.co.uk

Regards


Richard Howlett
Solicitor
www.bitcoinsolicitor.com

[BitCoinNutJob]

I am a qualified solicitor authorised and regulated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority in Engand.

My law firm Selachii LLP would be please to assist / advise those located in the UK.

To discuss any potential matters please call + 44 (0) 20 7792 5649 or email info (at) selachii.co.uk

Regards


Richard Howlett
Solicitor
www.bitcoinsolicitor.com

I had 30 BTC stuck in MtGox, im looking for help

[Atruk]

Hi everybody.

It looks like the writing is on the wall for mtgox.

There must be lot's of people like me who only had a small amount there, less than ten bitcoins. I also had 1000 euro's in withdrawal limbo since last month. Like a total fool, I transferred my bitcoin there just before all this started in order to cash out at the higher gox price. Now it looks like mtgox is all broken.

Is there any way to recover some of my losses? I read about a "multi plaintiff suit" on another thread but they were only interested in people who lost $10000 or more. My 2.34 BTC I still had on gox might get called "property" of mtgox and be given to other investors or creditors to pay them off. That wouldn't be fair at all. 2.34 BTC may not sound like much but it was a lot to me. Regardless of whether they are property or currency, they are still mine and I should get them back if they have them.

What would be the best way for small investors like me to get some of our funds back from mtgox?

AW

Get a time machine?

[WompRat]

I guess we are all going to learn something about Japanese bankruptcy proceedings now.  I think the only thing to do now is to wait and see what the scale of the losses are and how many bitcoins are unaccounted for.  I am not sure what good legal representation will do if you are a small investor.  

[efrix]

Hello,

I'm in the same situation, we can put together all the small investors
and proceed against mtgox, contacting tokyo police and maybe a
legal firm in japan. What do you think about that?

[ronaldmaustin]

Please respond to my post in this section.  The FinCEN license is a US Corporation.  I don't believe this is going to be a Japanese BK but a US one.  It is intended to stop the US suits and potential US prosecution.  Hiding in Japan and forming a Japanese company is not going to help Mr. Karples keep your money.  MtGox has stolen millions and he will be extradited and prosecuted.  I cannot say more at this point, but please respond to my post if you have been ripped off.

[efrix]

I contacted both of you by PM, I'm interested to join you in this.
All the people involved should join. How can we proceed now?

[bitcoinsolicitor]

Any enquiries please email info(at)selachii.co.uk and we can help you.

http://www.selachii.co.uk/solicitors-blog/mt-gox-crisis-investors/

Thanks

[exocytosis]

I'm interested.

[acidwing]

Hi everybody. Thank you for your feedback. I have had a few encouraging private messages as well.

I am not a lawyer but I am pleased some lawyers in the UK have offered help. I will contact them shortly.

Keep posting here if you are interested so we can get a better idea about our numbers.

[dbwilkins]

I guess we are all going to learn something about bankruptcy proceedings now

[bei_neureichs]

I'm interested. 

[acidwing]

I guess we are all going to learn something about bankruptcy proceedings now

Yes So it's not all doom and gloom folks.

I contacted the legal firm that posted earlier in this thread. I received a reply almost immediately saying there was a great deal of interest and that they would be ready to issue an update next week.  

I intend to continue posting updates here to let people know what is going on.

[Massimo80]

I contacted the legal firm that posted earlier in this thread. I received a reply almost immediately saying there was a great deal of interest and that they would be ready to issue an update next week.  

Same for me.

Of course, I'm quite interested, too.

[gj679]

I'm interested unfortunately 

[dancingnancy]

I still have bitcoinica money locked up in this.  Can I participate somehow as well?  It was a decently large size of BTC.

Thanks

[repentance]

Mark's confirmed that the information in the "leaked document" is essentially true.

IRC chatlog.

http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/179038-my-conversation-mark-karpeles-mtgox-2.html#post2164682

FinCEN is aware of the reports regarding MtGox.

Steve Hudak, spokesman for Treasury's anti-money laundering unit, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), said it is "aware of the reports regarding Mt. Gox" but had no additional comment. To date it is the only U.S. regulatory agency to have any oversight of Mt. Gox.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/25/us-mtgox-website-idUSBREA1O07920140225

Information on Japanese insolvency processes.

http://www.jurists.co.jp/en/topics/others_4007.html

http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures

Those consulting Western lawyers should make sure to mention the various legal actions already in progress, including actions by regulators (the seizure of funds by DHS and the investigation into SR money laundering activities).  The advice you get is only going to be as good as the information you provide, so leaving out critical information which may affect the viability of legal action is against your own best interests.

[Nyte]

I'm interested as well. 

[gj679]

http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/

[acidwing]

http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/

Thanks for this. I followed the instructions on the site.

I'm still waiting to hear from the law firm. I'd be interested to know if anybody has any other suggestions.

AW

[repentance]

http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/

Thanks for this. I followed the instructions on the site.

I'm still waiting to hear from the law firm. I'd be interested to know if anybody has any other suggestions.

AW

These things don't happen quickly.  You typically get an auto-responder acknowledging your expression of interest and then may not hear any more for months.

[spuushie]

I wonder, I made several cash withdraws a few months ago... Any chance they will go trough?

[Griegura]

I had 400 € in mt gox, and Id be ready to join its a matter of principle

[acidwing]

Hi everybody. Thank you all so much for your feedback.

I'm feeling a little uneasy hearing about all the high profile court cases being filed against gox while I don't even have a lawyer yet. I'm worried that only the richest investors will get any money back. Surely there must be more people who lost <$10000?

I don't want to simply post my email to some website, sit and wait for months while the whole thing unfolds in court, only to be told in the end "oh were sorry, you lost less than $10000 so you don't get anything"

Would it be paranoid to suggest a large firm could claim to represent "thousands of investors" but have small print saying only the top %10 of plaintiffs can claim a payout? Would it be in the interests of other law firms to convince the many smaller investors that something is being done for them in order to neutralize the many counter claims there may be to any recovered funds? Perhaps some of you could put my mind at ease with anything you know that may be relevant,

Also I just wish to reiterate that I started this thread for the people who lost less than $10000 , so they can to pool their resources. I am one such person and about a dozen or so other people have posted an interest.

If anybody hears anything about any actions that specifically relate to those people with less than $10000 in losses then I would like them to post about it here. Similarly if there is another thread relating to this somewhere then post that link too. I'm still looking for as many options as possible at the moment but despite my best efforts I'm still at a loss. There must be something else we can do?

AW

[Bonio]

Solicitors are usually are the ones who make money out of things like this, could someone explain what it is going to cost people?

Say for example someone has 1 BTC in gox, is it going to cost more than that to retrieve anything, and after all if they are broke then a small % per person is all that will be got.

Could someone maybe explain to the more cynical amongst us (me ) how it works and what are the costs incurred. Im asking here because I realise every letter or phone call to a solicitor usually gets added to the bottom line.

[acidwing]

Solicitors are usually are the ones who make money out of things like this, could someone explain what it is going to cost people?

Say for example someone has 1 BTC in gox, is it going to cost more than that to retrieve anything, and after all if they are broke then a small % per person is all that will be got.

Could someone maybe explain to the more cynical amongst us (me ) how it works and what are the costs incurred. Im asking here because I realise every letter or phone call to a solicitor usually gets added to the bottom line.

I had though about this but perhaps someone else could clarify.

I would propose the lawyers take a percentage of the recovered funds on a no win no fee basis. I am perfectly happy to pay lawyers for the work they do and if they think there is hope for a recovery then I am happy for them to keep a percentage (including a percentage of recovered bitcoin).

If the lawyers say there is very little chance of recovering any funds and they request an up front fee then we will have to look at other options. Some people may be willing to all chip in a little bit for a joint action. Whether I would be willing to do this depends on all the different factors involved. How much would it cost, what were the chances of recovery, how I felt about the lawyer making the proposal or what other options were available. Also it would have to be very cheep. I'm not prepared to sink much more (if anything) down the mtgox memory hole.

What are other people's thoughts on this?


 

[Bonio]

Does Bitcoinsolicitor have any funds tied up in Gox?

[acidwing]

Does Bitcoinsolicitor have any funds tied up in Gox?

I'd never heard of bitcoinsolicitor until you said that. I checked and I think it's the same person from Selachii LLP who posted earlier in this thread. You can find out more in this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=425901.0

AW

[Nagle]

http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/

That site is probably phony. No name, no address, no name of a law firm. Just send them your info. Looks like a scam.

It's generally considered unethical for an attorney to advertise anonymously. That's why all legal ads contain the name of the law firm.

[bitcoinsolicitor]

Does Bitcoinsolicitor have any funds tied up in Gox?

I'd never heard of bitcoinsolicitor until you said that. I checked and I think it's the same person from Selachii LLP who posted earlier in this thread. You can find out more in this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=425901.0

AW

RE: Does Bitcoinsolicitor have any funds tied up in Gox? = Not in Mt Gox.

We have been contacted but a lot of people from all over the world who have lost bitcoin and fiat currency with Mt Gox.

We should be in a position to update all those that have contacted us early next week.

If you have any questions please email info(at)selachii.co.uk

[Lyomon86]

I don't see any ways to recover my losses in the same case

[Raw-H]

http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/

That site is probably phony. No name, no address, no name of a law firm. Just send them your info. Looks like a scam.

It's generally considered unethical for an attorney to advertise anonymously. That's why all legal ads contain the name of the law firm.

Exactly the reason I registered with a different email instead of my email linked to mtgox.

[bitcoinsolicitor]

http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-lawsuit-target-mark-karpeles-personal-wealth/

[Hogam0001]

Hi,

I am interested in taking the action too.
I need my 1.44 bitcoin back.

Thank you,

[acidwing]

http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-lawsuit-target-mark-karpeles-personal-wealth/

I read this article. It's very reassuring to see that bitcoinsolicitor is acting on our behalf.

I would say though that (in contradiction to the article) I am personally more interested in getting my bitcoin back than my fiat. Whilst I have lost a significant sum in both, I resisted the temptation to sell at a loss during the final days of mtgox's operation and kept hold of my bitcoin instead.

It would of course be nice to get both.

AW

[markus13sbd]

I'm also interested on. I also think if we cooperate together may be we can achieve something, but of course the wait will be long.
Maybe one of the good things in this case is the justice will happen in Japan and Asian people are serously than other cultures in this kind of issues.

[bitcoinsolicitor]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10676691/Hundreds-want-to-join-Mt-Gox-lawsuit-says-UK-law-firm.html

[acidwing]

I just received this in my inboxI think it's from http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/

AW



Mtgox Recovery
   
   

Update #1

Hi Everyone,

This is our first update since we started the website.  The response has been overwhelming.  Our site http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com now represents over 20% of all MtGox claims and is still growing rapidly.  This is great for several reasons, but  first I would like to share some more information about who is behind this site.

My name is Olivier Janssens, I recently received some press by taking the first flight paid for with bitcoins(*)  I have been an early miner since 2010, and (still) believe Bitcoin is the greatest invention since the Internet.  This is the currency of the People, and will allow us to regain much freedom, and enhance our way of doing business together in ways that we have never seen before.  Unfortunately, as part of the growth process, some of the rotten apples have to be weeded out.  In this case the apple was quite big.
   
I personally lost over $5 million USD in this debacle, due to Mark Karpeles stating to me personally that large amounts of Bitcoins could be sold on his exchange without any issues. After 3 months of trying to (unsuccessfully) extract my money, I started preparing a lawsuit.  This was about three weeks ago, and around the time the first protestor arrived at their office because MtGox had stopped sending Bitcoins under the excuse of the malleability bug.

Mark knew I was a major stake holder in the Bitcoin community, and we discussed solutions for 3 hours to try to resolve this.  At that time he kept telling me he could only send me a very limited amount per month, due to anti money laundering issues.  Obviously, this was a lie.

MtGox was already insolvent at that time and likely was long before then.  Mark had lured me (and many others) into sending over millions worth of Bitcoins so he could continue whatever scam or scheme he was running.  However, I decided that I would not take MtGox down with my lawsuit (I was ready to have their bank account blocked and start criminal charges against Karpeles personally).

The reason why I didn’t proceed with that course of action was because I wanted to protect the community from being harmed by taking down its oldest exchange.  So I decided to take Mark’s word that he really had anti money laundering issues, and bought back in.  In the end I walked away with a mere 20% of my original investment (bitcoinbuilder).
   
This was a huge loss, but I still have Bitcoins left.  There are many people who have lost their entire life savings due to Mark Karpeles’s criminal behaviour.  Personally, I do not believe that the coins were leaked through a bug.  I believe this scheme has been going for much longer.  Mark will be investigated for his potential crimes.  He is in Japan and the legal team I have on this case have assured me that he is unable to leave the country due the chapter 11 filing.

This brings us to our progress so far.  In the last days we have been working hard on assembling evidence from people who have been ripped-off by Mark in one way or another.  Not just by depositing coins on the exchange, but by false promises made by him personally.  If you have any such story where you communicated to him personally and where he gave you guarantees, please forward it to contact@mtgoxrecovery.com.  Any additional evidence which might help prove that Mark is behind this is very welcome.  If you have other evidence that would show something different, please send it to us also.  We are making a timeline of events, and a very clear document, and will be communicating this together with any other info we gather to the police.

Meanwhile, we have also started some initiatives like http://www.projectgox.com - an idea that will start a community based bitcoin exchange, where all the people that lost money in MtGox become shareholders and take part in the profits.  We think that the Bitcoin community is extremely strong and resilient, and that we look out for each other.  This is what makes us strong.

So far I have been funding this whole lawsuit personally, and I do not want to take donations because I think everyone has lost enough.  I believe Bitcoin is too important to have something like MtGox kill this valuable community.

We will grow from this and become much stronger than before.  Together, we will try to make right what was done wrong, and start initiatives to make people whole again.  We will soon reach over 50% of the Plaintiffs, and this will allow us to take control of the former MtGox.

I welcome any ideas on how to monetize this again so we can start making back what we lost.  In the next days I will bring forward the best ideas we have received, and then we can all vote on how we wish to move ahead.  I do not have much hope on recovering any ‘stolen’ bitcoins, but we will do our very best to investigate this to the fullest extent of the law, to find out exactly what happened, and to bring those responsible to justice.

Regards,
Olivier Janssens

[jomay]

MtGox was already insolvent at that time and likely was long before then.  Mark had lured me (and many others) into sending over millions worth of Bitcoins so he could continue whatever scam or scheme he was running.

This is great news, finally somebody also getting to the criminal part of Mr. Karpeles behaviour.

A theft might explain BTC at MtGox vanishing, but not the missing EUR, GBP and USD balances, no matter what kind of accounting you do! Person A deposits 1 BTC, Person B 1000$, they trade on Mt Gox and then 1 BTC gets stolen. Mt Gox still has 1000$ - their bank account has not been robbed. I find it outrageous that Karpeles even dares to pretend he is a poor victim. What he did is fraud and he should be in prison for that.

It is clear that Karpeles must have used client currency deposits either to pay for running his business or to buy and pay out missing bitcoins. No matter what, he has fraudulently delayed the filing of bankruptcy by months if not a year (there were irregularities at Mt Gox in summer 2013) and he probably has even misappropriated client funds.

[acidwing]

Has anyone heard anything from selachii/bitcoinsolicitor yet?

They claim to be representing various clients but so far they haven't even told me how much their services cost.

AW

[T.Stuart]

Has anyone heard anything from selachii/bitcoinsolicitor yet?

They claim to be representing various clients but so far they haven't even told me how much their services cost.

AW

2BTC for initial fact-finding

[acidwing]

2BTC for initial fact-finding

That's ridiculous. It's almost more than I lost. Where did you get that information from?

[acidwing]

Is there any other suggestions beside Selachii?

[ITGeniusGuru]

I'm also interested on. I also think if we cooperate together may be we can achieve something, but of course the wait will be long.

I have registered at http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com and so I am obviously interested in joining any effort to try to recover small investors' fund.
I do not know how bankruptcy cases are handled in Japan, but - obviously - as a group of small investors - we need the help of a Japanese law firm.
The goal of filing bankruptcy is to protect the filer from debtors to either:
- give him time to recover from his losses without paying his debts for a while, or
- liquidate assets and distribute proceeds between debtors (each gets a percentage of his losses).

Again, I do not know how bankruptcy is handled in Japan, but in the USA, bankruptcy is handled by a Federal court, which has a higher authority than local smaller courts. So if a group of debtors sues the bankrupt person/firm in a small court, the judge will not be able to do anything, because the bankruptcy filer is protected by whatever order was issued by the higher court, So if the higher court ordered certain debts to be forfeited, no action in a lower court can reverse that.

Unless there was criminal intent on the part of Karpeles... that's a whole different story.

How about we compile a list of our email addresses, so that when a collective decision has been made of what to do (what law firm in Japan to represent all of us for example), we can all proceed as one (in USA, that would be a class action suit).

If http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/ is legitimate, serious and will agree to represent us on the basis of getting paid only by a percentage of money recovered, then how about we go with them, to represent us all?

[Beans]

I'm also interested on. I also think if we cooperate together may be we can achieve something, but of course the wait will be long.

I have registered at http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com and so I am obviously interested in joining any effort to try to recover small investors' fund.
I do not know how bankruptcy cases are handled in Japan, but - obviously - as a group of small investors - we need the help of a Japanese law firm.
The goal of filing bankruptcy is to protect the filer from debtors to either:
- give him time to recover from his losses without paying his debts for a while, or
- liquidate assets and distribute proceeds between debtors (each gets a percentage of his losses).

Again, I do not know how bankruptcy is handled in Japan, but in the USA, bankruptcy is handled by a Federal court, which has a higher authority than local smaller courts. So if a group of debtors sues the bankrupt person/firm in a small court, the judge will not be able to do anything, because the bankruptcy filer is protected by whatever order was issued by the higher court, So if the higher court ordered certain debts to be forfeited, no action in a lower court can reverse that.

Unless there was criminal intent on the part of Karpeles... that's a whole different story.

How about we compile a list of our email addresses, so that when a collective decision has been made of what to do (what law firm in Japan to represent all of us for example), we can all proceed as one (in USA, that would be a class action suit).

If http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/ is legitimate, serious and will agree to represent us on the basis of getting paid only by a percentage of money recovered, then how about we go with them, to represent us all?

Mtgoxrecovery does a good job keeping us informed on the legal situation, but are they even representing anyone but themselves? I keep hearing it both ways, but nothing absolute yet. If not, they are really side tracking a lot of people who think they are.

[Medion]

Mtgoxrecovery does a good job keeping us informed on the legal situation, but are they even representing anyone but themselves? I keep hearing it both ways, but nothing absolute yet. If not, they are really side tracking a lot of people who think they are.

Exactly - they are CREDITORS and for such a reason they will be first in line to get money back. We are nothing to them even though they pretend to be different.

[acidwing]

I sent the following email to mtgoxrecovery but I have not received a reply as yet......

Hello,

I lost funds in mtgox and I signed up on your site to try and recover the losses. I still haven't heard from you and I'm wondering if there is anything I should be doing. The email address I signed up with was xxxxxxxxx@xmail.com.

Can you update me on what I need to do next?

Kindest regards,

Me.

[acidwing]

I think it is a good idea to share email addresses as suggested earlier. My email is acidwing@ymail.com. You can post your address here or send it me in a private message. I will kepp everyone updated as to what I have learned and what action is being taken.

[acidwing]

Selachi have confirmed that they want 2 btc upfront and they advise that they will need another 7btc to pursue the matter.  I think this is extortionate.

I think Selachi acted very dishonourably by posting in this thread. I made it clear in my OP that this was a thread to help people that had only lost a small amount. Less than $10000. Selachi want a minimum of 9 x $500 or $4500. Almost half of $10000. That's what I would have expected from any high street solicitor. If I had that kind of money spare I would have gone to a high street solicitor and wouldn't have bothered making this thread OBVIOUSLY.

By posting here they shamelessly exploited my thread to promote their own business and hijacked all the enthusiasm to get a few extra clients. They were perfectly aware what their price would be when they first posted and knew that only a few people reading this would be able to sign up with them.  Of course that hasn't stopped them from claiming they represent large numbers of clients. They deliberately avoided quoting a price in their original post and I had to send several emails before they informed me how unreasonably expensive they were.

I sent an email to Richard (bitcoinsolicitor aka Selachii) asking if we could negotiate something and he hasn't even bothered to send me a reply. Selachii only seem interested in exploiting the situation.

[ITGeniusGuru]

Selachii only seem interested in exploiting the situation.

I agree with you.
Which kinda puts us back where we started.
Now that mtgox.com "confirms" your account. Anyone knows what that means? Is there any hope we - tiny creditors - might get our BTCs back some day? Anyone has any info?

[pc52013141234]

the mtgox is died! fuck mtgox!!!!iIt made my money disappear~！！！！！！！！！！！！！！now i don't how to recover my money...........................I think it can recover soon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[acidwing]

AFAIK, you don't actually need a solicitor to make a claim in the bankruptcy court. You just have to contact them and register an interest.

Does anybody here know how to do this? If not then I will try and find out myself and post the results here.

Mtgox does let you see your balance now but when I checked I only saw my BTC/USD balances and NOT the thousand euro's I was part way through withdrawing.

[Keeminakar]

It is so nice to realize that you are not one of lot's of people who had any bitcoin there

[acidwing]

It is so nice to realize that you are not one of lot's of people who had any bitcoin there

Good for you Keeminakar. Hopefully whatever exchange you use stays up and running forever. Perhaps you could suggest some ways we could recover our lost bitcoins. Or maybe suggest a way to prevent this from happening in future? Mtgox, Flexcoin, now cryptorush. Making off with peoples bitcoins seems all the rage these days. Hope you stay lucky