Big pop up again

[STT]

Buying right now

I dont agree purely buying right now.   Im not that certain, I will argue buy on a regular basis and for a time line that might extend two years into the future.   Thats how long I would say buying might have to take place, really what we need is an economy of exchange and usage of Bitcoin and during that use people accumulate some holdings of BTC over two years.

The  usage will improve the prospects and likelyhood that bitcoin does have a value to hold but just plain speculation by the majority of the market and participants in BTC is not going to end well.

For a big pop up at this point we really need it to be moving above the 6500 area.  Then it must confirm this move, rather then the rejection we last saw yesterday.

[pooya87]

the bear market ended a while ago. this is just a residual effect and some people wishing it to continue some of them have the power to make it continue so they are dumping to push it down.

its waaaaay too early to say. how are you so confident the bear is done?

in any market, this whole $6000-$12000 trading range could be a bearish consolidation. i'd love to see things turn around, but by all trend-reading techniques i know, this is still a bear market. break above $8500 (higher high) and we can start believing otherwise.

because price has not been going down for a very long time now. it is now going sideways and mostly staying stable since the changes are still small with $6000 as their bottom.
this may not be a real trend but i call it the uncertainty trend which to me signals the end of the bear market and start of the reversal. and unless price goes below $6k i wouldn't change my opinion; which is possible with the ETF negative news being possible but has not happened yet.

[figmentofmyass]

Looking at how the price moved this year, i think there's logic behind what you said dude and probably that's why all these speculations indicating that we'll bottom out at 4 or 3k isn't that valid. Whales and high holders have the say in this kind if market.

only to an extent. whales and large miners can withhold coins from the market, but nobody has this market cornered. and as the years go by, coins become more and more distributed. something like 5-10% of americans now own crypto. so the whales of yester-years really aren't as important anymore.

what matters most is all the supply from bagholders from 2017 (including institutions like novagratz' fund etc) and whether or not organic demand can outweigh that.

[alyssa85]

This is what Wall Street call "price discovery". Its the point where they cant suppress the price any longer.

But the issue remains: will it go up from there? Will this bottom go up? Or will the price keeps swinging over it?

We’ve been here so many times this year, and seeing the previous price movement, always a bounce back after hitting this level. Maybe the theory of the OP is right since the support level are strong between the price range of $5k-$6k where buyers and sellers agreed the bottom price. No one can answer your question but as an optimist hodler, Maybe we see a new bottom but I know it will to rise again.

IMO institutional investors have buys just under the $6000 mark. Which is why it's holding above that level. What is missing is retail investors - they've been scared away by the price drop from $20,000 plus all the drama with fees at the end of last year.

[horse_white]

Looking at how the price moved this year, i think there's logic behind what you said dude and probably that's why all these speculations indicating that we'll bottom out at 4 or 3k isn't that valid. Whales and high holders have the say in this kind if market.

only to an extent. whales and large miners can withhold coins from the market, but nobody has this market cornered. and as the years go by, coins become more and more distributed. something like 5-10% of americans now own crypto. so the whales of yester-years really aren't as important anymore.

what matters most is all the supply from bagholders from 2017 (including institutions like novagratz' fund etc) and whether or not organic demand can outweigh that.

That's the big problem we are facing is the heavy supply weighing down from above. There needs to be more organic demand and not just algos driving the price up for short periods. I'm a bit worried about the future of bitcoin because of that. These futures contracts are no good in my opinion, and the ETF won't make a big difference either.

What would really help bitcoin is more trust and widespread adoption by major figures who actually use the coin for what it was intended for, rather than just quick swaps or pump & dumps.

[STT]

Bitcoin actually has to be used, that is a big point to this whole retraction.  Its the high tide of speculation and leveraged buying now retracting and leaving us to find the base mark of where is Bitcoin actually being used and operations where it is useful in its abilities.   Without that base use I dont see the rest is justified, some even assume the entire thing was speculation but thats not the case.  We will find bedrock of support some place when its mostly about usage, just not sure how long that takes

[Barbut]

This is what Wall Street call "price discovery". Its the point where they cant suppress the price any longer.

But the issue remains: will it go up from there? Will this bottom go up? Or will the price keeps swinging over it?

We’ve been here so many times this year, and seeing the previous price movement, always a bounce back after hitting this level. Maybe the theory of the OP is right since the support level are strong between the price range of $5k-$6k where buyers and sellers agreed the bottom price. No one can answer your question but as an optimist hodler, Maybe we see a new bottom but I know it will to rise again.

IMO institutional investors have buys just under the $6000 mark. Which is why it's holding above that level. What is missing is retail investors - they've been scared away by the price drop from $20,000 plus all the drama with fees at the end of last year.

Newbies got scared and they sold what they have in panic. I don`t think that anyone else got scared, this machine is not stopping for a second, only thing that drop occasionally is price. Like op said this is a solid bottom, we been on 6,000$ many times this year, we survived summer on this bottom, like all summers this was lazy too, but things will be different in September and winter months, like it is every year.
Price will go up, and down again many times, I don`t doubt in that. When will we break that 10,000$ point again is speculation, but I think that will happen in next few months, before new year for sure.

[Febo]

This is what Wall Street call "price discovery". Its the point where they cant suppress the price any longer.

But the issue remains: will it go up from there? Will this bottom go up? Or will the price keeps swinging over it?

We’ve been here so many times this year, and seeing the previous price movement, always a bounce back after hitting this level. Maybe the theory of the OP is right since the support level are strong between the price range of $5k-$6k where buyers and sellers agreed the bottom price. No one can answer your question but as an optimist hodler, Maybe we see a new bottom but I know it will to rise again.

IMO institutional investors have buys just under the $6000 mark. Which is why it's holding above that level. What is missing is retail investors - they've been scared away by the price drop from $20,000 plus all the drama with fees at the end of last year.

Newbies got scared and they sold what they have in panic. I don`t think that anyone else got scared, this machine is not stopping for a second, only thing that drop occasionally is price. Like op said this is a solid bottom, we been on 6,000$ many times this year, we survived summer on this bottom, like all summers this was lazy too, but things will be different in September and winter months, like it is every year.
Price will go up, and down again many times, I don`t doubt in that. When will we break that 10,000$ point again is speculation, but I think that will happen in next few months, before new year for sure.

Bitcoin cycle dont last 1 year. Bitcoin cycle last approximately 4 years. Reason for that we can find in halving that happens every 4 years among others.   I would simply not expect that Bitcoin will go crazy in November because it went last year and few other Novembers in past.

[inneveca]

This is what Wall Street call "price discovery". Its the point where they cant suppress the price any longer.

But the issue remains: will it go up from there? Will this bottom go up? Or will the price keeps swinging over it?

We’ve been here so many times this year, and seeing the previous price movement, always a bounce back after hitting this level. Maybe the theory of the OP is right since the support level are strong between the price range of $5k-$6k where buyers and sellers agreed the bottom price. No one can answer your question but as an optimist hodler, Maybe we see a new bottom but I know it will to rise again.

IMO institutional investors have buys just under the $6000 mark. Which is why it's holding above that level. What is missing is retail investors - they've been scared away by the price drop from $20,000 plus all the drama with fees at the end of last year.

We need some big investors in current time, which can give some boost to bitcoin price. Once the bitcoin price will start increasing then the retailer will also get some confident and will hopefully start buying bitcoin, which is in fact too much important for the bitcoin price.

[Pherjen5]

the bear market ended a while ago. this is just a residual effect and some people wishing it to continue some of them have the power to make it continue so they are dumping to push it down.

its waaaaay too early to say. how are you so confident the bear is done?

in any market, this whole $6000-$12000 trading range could be a bearish consolidation. i'd love to see things turn around, but by all trend-reading techniques i know, this is still a bear market. break above $8500 (higher high) and we can start believing otherwise.

because price has not been going down for a very long time now. it is now going sideways and mostly staying stable since the changes are still small with $6000 as their bottom.
this may not be a real trend but i call it the uncertainty trend which to me signals the end of the bear market and start of the reversal. and unless price goes below $6k i wouldn't change my opinion; which is possible with the ETF negative news being possible but has not happened yet.

If the price is trading too much stable then how can we say that there is instability in the market. I think that it is the sign that bitcoin price will very soon start increasing and hopefully the bitcoin price will this time cross 10000$ level very soon. we need to continue holding our bitcoin.

[SolomonSollarsNSense]

frankly we could be a lot lower than we are.  I'm grateful for that.

Give it time. This bear market may continue for years. Just like it's been after MtGox crash

It is different this time. There are more users this time. The bear market could finish in the next few months.

May be the number of participants are more but the price is low that is indicating that we sell in low market that is contributing to the price go down back and this repeated several times. We have to stop expecting for high or bull market because we are not stopping this mistake of selling in low market. The price has declined again and dropped at 6000 US dollar which is highly achievable so we can look for buying more this time.
In last few days market is  fluctuating up and down in more quicker which may signal up for strong trend in coming weeks as it denote new and high potential investors are in hurry to enter and play. Keep watching.

[AirFlame]

Looking at how the price moved this year, i think there's logic behind what you said dude and probably that's why all these speculations indicating that we'll bottom out at 4 or 3k isn't that valid. Whales and high holders have the say in this kind if market.

only to an extent. whales and large miners can withhold coins from the market, but nobody has this market cornered. and as the years go by, coins become more and more distributed. something like 5-10% of americans now own crypto. so the whales of yester-years really aren't as important anymore.

what matters most is all the supply from bagholders from 2017 (including institutions like novagratz' fund etc) and whether or not organic demand can outweigh that.

That's the big problem we are facing is the heavy supply weighing down from above. There needs to be more organic demand and not just algos driving the price up for short periods. I'm a bit worried about the future of bitcoin because of that. These futures contracts are no good in my opinion, and the ETF won't make a big difference either.

What would really help bitcoin is more trust and widespread adoption by major figures who actually use the coin for what it was intended for, rather than just quick swaps or pump & dumps.

The supply only increased because of the low buying demand. I think that if we attract some new investors in the market, they will start buying which will increase the bitcoin demand and therefore the supply start decreasing. I think we have very good example in 2017 when the demand was increasing from time to time and the supply was decreasing which caused the price to increase too much.

[upsidedown75]

Looking at how the price moved this year, i think there's logic behind what you said dude and probably that's why all these speculations indicating that we'll bottom out at 4 or 3k isn't that valid. Whales and high holders have the say in this kind if market.

only to an extent. whales and large miners can withhold coins from the market, but nobody has this market cornered. and as the years go by, coins become more and more distributed. something like 5-10% of americans now own crypto. so the whales of yester-years really aren't as important anymore.

what matters most is all the supply from bagholders from 2017 (including institutions like novagratz' fund etc) and whether or not organic demand can outweigh that.

That's the big problem we are facing is the heavy supply weighing down from above. There needs to be more organic demand and not just algos driving the price up for short periods. I'm a bit worried about the future of bitcoin because of that. These futures contracts are no good in my opinion, and the ETF won't make a big difference either.

What would really help bitcoin is more trust and widespread adoption by major figures who actually use the coin for what it was intended for, rather than just quick swaps or pump & dumps.

The supply only increased because of the low buying demand. I think that if we attract some new investors in the market, they will start buying which will increase the bitcoin demand and therefore the supply start decreasing. I think we have very good example in 2017 when the demand was increasing from time to time and the supply was decreasing which caused the price to increase too much.

To attract bigger and new investors to the market, I believe we will need more than just speculations to make that work, but some real and organic demand like someone mentioned which can only be based on the real life usage and development of bitcoin as a currency.

2017 demand was obviously a manipulated pump all in the name of trying to get gullible smaller investors into the market and we have all seen the outcome so far. For now, I guess we just have to wait to see how far this $5k region is going to end up holding until further notice.

[Herbert2020]

2017 demand was obviously a manipulated pump all in the name of trying to get gullible smaller investors into the market and we have all seen the outcome so far. For now, I guess we just have to wait to see how far this $5k region is going to end up holding until further notice.

i agree with the first part but this part i can not agree with.
what happened in 2017 was not a pump, there was manipulation but the rise to $20k would have happened anyways and it is not because of manipulation, it was because a lot of money was coming in during 2017 and that kind of rise is what naturally happens when you have a tiny market with thin order books which can not have any kind of resistance against that kind of money so the price shoots up.
it was real demand, if you check the news reports you can see for instance coinbase used to have about 1 million new users every couple of days! and those people were coming in because everywhere you looked you could see bitcoin was discussed.

[aencarnaci]

We talk about how the whales are trying to buy at $6k levels but we are forgetting a simpler understanding of economics while we do that.

If someone wants to drop the price they must first have enough bitcoin to sell and drop the price which would mean a lot of bitcoin and can affect the price yet lets assume there are people who have enough money to buy without maxing the price but sell while dropping the price at the same time, they will also buy again which means they will be increasing the price all by themselves, I doubt anyone can handle that at the same time, you both need to buy without increasing, sell while dropping and buy again without increasing.

[planton96]

We talk about how the whales are trying to buy at $6k levels but we are forgetting a simpler understanding of economics while we do that.

If someone wants to drop the price they must first have enough bitcoin to sell and drop the price which would mean a lot of bitcoin and can affect the price yet lets assume there are people who have enough money to buy without maxing the price but sell while dropping the price at the same time, they will also buy again which means they will be increasing the price all by themselves, I doubt anyone can handle that at the same time, you both need to buy without increasing, sell while dropping and buy again without increasing.

Those whom don't seems to cease opportunities goes into whining about the price. Don't be suprised if it's the government that keeps on manipulating price so they can stock up their wallet. For their own benefit, they may be the whale investors we keep talking about that.

[Ironmaiden]

2017 demand was obviously a manipulated pump all in the name of trying to get gullible smaller investors into the market and we have all seen the outcome so far. For now, I guess we just have to wait to see how far this $5k region is going to end up holding until further notice.

i agree with the first part but this part i can not agree with.
what happened in 2017 was not a pump, there was manipulation but the rise to $20k would have happened anyways and it is not because of manipulation, it was because a lot of money was coming in during 2017 and that kind of rise is what naturally happens when you have a tiny market with thin order books which can not have any kind of resistance against that kind of money so the price shoots up.
it was real demand, if you check the news reports you can see for instance coinbase used to have about 1 million new users every couple of days! and those people were coming in because everywhere you looked you could see bitcoin was discussed.

Now coming to buy when its low, would then mean they have to go source for external fund or be able to buy lower than what they purportedly held before the dumping exercise. Maybe I am missing something, but it does not add up.

[beerlover]

2017 demand was obviously a manipulated pump all in the name of trying to get gullible smaller investors into the market and we have all seen the outcome so far. For now, I guess we just have to wait to see how far this $5k region is going to end up holding until further notice.

i agree with the first part but this part i can not agree with.
what happened in 2017 was not a pump, there was manipulation but the rise to $20k would have happened anyways and it is not because of manipulation, it was because a lot of money was coming in during 2017 and that kind of rise is what naturally happens when you have a tiny market with thin order books which can not have any kind of resistance against that kind of money so the price shoots up.
it was real demand, if you check the news reports you can see for instance coinbase used to have about 1 million new users every couple of days! and those people were coming in because everywhere you looked you could see bitcoin was discussed.

What you are forgetting to ask yourself is that; what instigated the quick surge in price in the first place. We all know money was coming into the market; otherwise the market will not even be rising.

However, the question is how this money came into the market. Actually, I would not say that was because there was a real demand for it, or because a lot of people are seeing the long term prospect in being a part of the future, it is simply because most people that join FOMO just want to get rich overnight, while the real believers buy the bottom.

As long as there would be weak hands, market will always be pumped and manipulated by the whales, to feed on those greedy fellows who their only mission is to see ways they can obtain so much from the market in a short term. By the way, pump and manipulations is concurrent in nature.

[bitcoin31]

Big pump for bitcoin is near for sure , waiting is the key to see that, but you need to buy more bitcoin to pump the value of this coin.
But if the people continue to sell their bitcoin that they have maybe instead of seeing again big pump it turn into big dump again and everyone will sacirfice on that because we lost most of our capital. Unity is the best key if they want to have achieve your goal.

[rainezerr]

As we approached sub $6k and actually hit $5.9k... we see another huge pump to $6400. Impressive, a $500 dollar move up just like that, on a single candle. Someone bought a pretty decent amount of coins.

The theory of how that $5k-6k price range is the diamond solid ground in which miners will never let bitcoin go below is shaping up. Governments want to take the price down and tank it so they can buy it all but someone (maybe rich miners and other whales) keep using that range as the reverse point. Let's see if it holds. We have touched this same point so many times that the theory might be right.

We can absolutely expect for a huge pop up again due to the market price that is currently dropping and that is the reason why we should invest today.