FBI investigating Gox

[oaxaca]

[Armis]

http://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-probing-mtgox-2014-2

This is more like it! Those who steal people's life saving shouldn't be allowed to sip cappuccino in the morning

and those who give money to the people who steal people's money should not complain when their money is also stolen

[tvbcof]

I have to think they would be looking a Gox regardless of the recent issues because of the Charlie Shrem / BitInstant case. I bet there is likely some link there.

It would be almost inconceivable that there would not be.

If the Feds already have BitInstant data and cooperation, and they have whatever data SR might have retained.  Adding in the Mt. Gox trove that will give a pretty complete picture of the Bitcoin economy going back to a very early time.  It's a safe bet that they pull data from Coinbase in real-time, and probably any other operators who are allowed to operate in a mysteriously unmolested manner.

I'd say that the trap was set back in the mid 2011's about the time that Chuck Schumer STFU about 'the evils of Bitcoin.'  Now we are approaching the point where the noose is tightened.

I'll bet that there will be a time when Libertarians reflexively spit on the ground when they hear the word 'Bitcoin.'  But by the time comes a vast wave of VC's and Joe Sixpacks will be on-board and delighted to see the 'bad actors' purged from the system.  In fact I made this prediction maybe 18 months ago IIRC, and we see now that we are in the intermediate phases of this coming to pass I think.

[bananas]

Awesome news, JailedTux

[lm2f]

If anything this episode should serve to teach libertarian children why financial regulation exists in the first place.

[tvbcof]

If anything this episode should serve to teach libertarian children why financial regulation exists in the first place.

Hopefully it will teach a good number of these kids to be more careful and analytical next time around.  This so that a better solution gains the traction needed to take off and be viable.

While I'm not a Libertarian myself, I find a lot to like about their (purported) concepts of liberty when it comes to personal affairs and particularly those which relate to financial matters.  I don't have much use for tax cheats and thieves, but the danger of having everyone's wealth open to inspection and manipulation by centralized corp/gov actors outweighs the problems of allowing individual freedoms in this regard.  In my humble opinion.

[Armis]

If anything this episode should serve to teach libertarian children why financial regulation exists in the first place.

they never forgot, because as soon as they loss their money they dialed 911 ...


They, like many others, talk a good tough boy game but when the satoshi hits the fan they don't want the market to handle it, they wall Sam, knowing full well that Sam almost never gets you what you want, Sam only looks out for Sam.  

Cartel style self-regulation is the answer.  

[bananas]

If anything this episode should serve to teach libertarian children why financial regulation exists in the first place.

Regulation would not refrain him from doing absolutely the same. Regulated market have done much worse, it is simple crime. It is not lack of regulation.

[Armis]

next time around. 

here's the thing, the biggest players are all young, so they can totally reinvent themselves and become MAJOR players once a gain in the cryptocurrency industry, even some of the older guys that got embroiled in the silk road thing, they too can experience a new beginning because of the nascent and volatile nature of the cryptocurrency economy.

At this very moment it is very possible for them to start with $0, take advantage of many giveaway offers do some trading and start making a decent living in less then 3 months.  and be a millionaire again in less than a year.  Their knowledge is there and the market is there too.  

But you know how things are, they got the million easy, they want the billion easier ...

[clownius]

I have to think they would be looking a Gox regardless of the recent issues because of the Charlie Shrem / BitInstant case. I bet there is likely some link there.

It would be almost inconceivable that there would not be.

If the Feds already have BitInstant data and cooperation, and they have whatever data SR might have retained.  Adding in the Mt. Gox trove that will give a pretty complete picture of the Bitcoin economy going back to a very early time.  It's a safe bet that they pull data from Coinbase in real-time, and probably any other operators who are allowed to operate in a mysteriously unmolested manner.

I'd say that the trap was set back in the mid 2011's about the time that Chuck Schumer STFU about 'the evils of Bitcoin.'  Now we are approaching the point where the noose is tightened.

I'll bet that there will be a time when Libertarians reflexively spit on the ground when they hear the word 'Bitcoin.'  But by the time comes a vast wave of VC's and Joe Sixpacks will be on-board and delighted to see the 'bad actors' purged from the system.  In fact I made this prediction maybe 18 months ago IIRC, and we see now that we are in the intermediate phases of this coming to pass I think.

I know it may be shocking to some people but did you think the USG might be responsible for shutting mtgox down?  I wouldnt put it past them to put it mildly.  They may have been hunting bitcoin and drugs/terrorism not financial fraud.  We are just collateral damage.

[leopard2]

If anything this episode should serve to teach libertarian children why financial regulation exists in the first place.

the opposite is true, Mtgox was the first exchange to validate customers, and now it is closed. Without regulation you would not need Gox, just a person or a machine that converts paper cash to electronic cash aka BTC

without regulation you could probably walk into any bank, deposit any amount of cash and receive any amount of btc right away ... impossible to get goxxed that way

[c3po1]

If anything this episode should serve to teach libertarian children why financial regulation exists in the first place.

 

[bananas]

by the way, the bitcoin market is regulated...money transfers are regulated, selling products(btc) is also regulated.

[bitcoinminer]

If anything this episode should serve to teach libertarian children why financial regulation exists in the first place.

ZING! lol.

[tvbcof]

I know it may be shocking to some people but did you think the USG might be responsible for shutting mtgox down?  I wouldnt put it past them to put it mildly.  They may have been hunting bitcoin and drugs/terrorism not financial fraud.  We are just collateral damage.

The way Karpeles spoke of the gag order for, what, 3 quarters now make it pretty clear to me that the U.S. Govt was highly involved, and probably under the guise of the 'war on terror.'

From the end of 2011 until the Coinlab deal, I thought it quite possible that Mt. Gox actively cooperated with the U.S. authorities and that is why they thrived while their competition kept running into 'problems.'  Looking at the way the Coinlab deal fell through, I changed my mind about how likely that was and that I was probably wrong about the level of cooperation provided by Mt. Gox.

But I also decided that if Mt. Gox and the U.S. authorities had an antagonistic relationship then Mt. Gox didn't have a very bright future so I reduced my risk with them (which had grown due to higher valuations.)  By Oct my risk was down to zero except for an experimental wire they owe me.

I'd say that most of people working on behalf of the U.S. authorities have 'wholesome' goals associated with stamping out financial fraud and so-called 'terrorism.'  They also probably have a limited amount of sympathy for the folks who will end up burnt since even those who are not involved with crime are actively antagonistic to the bodies who empower the regulators.  I'm personally in that category.

Although I am not in favor of the methods of the U.S. authorities, their involvement and activities were, to me, entirely predictable and I'm not going to be exactly broken-hearted to see the various criminal elements get their balls stomped on.  Many of them only have BTC in teh first place because they stole it from others.  Financially it may (or may not) work out very well for me personally to see the Bitcoin Foundation types 'win' and it will be some consolation given that my philosophical hopes for Bitcoin proper will be crushed.

[Armis]

I know it may be shocking to some people but did you think the USG might be responsible for shutting mtgox down?  I wouldnt put it past them to put it mildly.  They may have been hunting bitcoin and drugs/terrorism not financial fraud.  We are just collateral damage.

Come on guys, you know the USG don't roll like that, if they shut your site down they put the their whole seal on it, and if they take you into custody they want the perp walk. 

The BIG news from the feds was the subpoena -- the absolute beginning of the beginning.  They are as surprised as everybody else, remember all of the actions that Mt Gox took PUBLICLY was proper, they just stunk, the subpoena is the legal crow-bar to pry open the door to see what smells so bad.  If it turns out Mark is just a bad cook (accounting and programming problems as Roger claims) then no criminal case, just a civil matter; but if if it turns out that he was cooking the books, then you have an entirely different story. 

[bananas]

the japanese authorities are investigating too, so i read on bloomberg

[bananas]

I know it may be shocking to some people but did you think the USG might be responsible for shutting mtgox down?  I wouldnt put it past them to put it mildly.  They may have been hunting bitcoin and drugs/terrorism not financial fraud.  We are just collateral damage.

Come on guys, you know the USG don't roll like that, if they shut your site down they put the their whole seal on it, and if they take you into custody they want the perp walk. 

The BIG news from the feds was the subpoena -- the absolute beginning of the beginning.  They are as surprised as everybody else, remember all of the actions that Mt Gox took PUBLICLY was proper, they just stunk, the subpoena is the legal crow-bar to pry open the door to see what smells so bad.  If it turns out Mark is just a bad cook (accounting and programming problems as Roger claims) then no criminal case, just a civil matter; but if if it turns out that he was cooking the books, then you have an entirely different story. 

I don't think so, how he lost so much unoticed over years? It was deliberate.

[tvbcof]

...
I'll bet that there will be a time when Libertarians reflexively spit on the ground when they hear the word 'Bitcoin.'  But by the time comes a vast wave of VC's and Joe Sixpacks will be on-board and delighted to see the 'bad actors' purged from the system.  In fact I made this prediction maybe 18 months ago IIRC, and we see now that we are in the intermediate phases of this coming to pass I think.

I wonder if Andreessen is on this forum?

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/525836/marc-andreessen-predicts-libertarians-will-turn-on-bitcoin/

[itsunderstood]

1: No way is the FBI not already involved after SR wallet stealing by them, they are already balls deep, this is just fog of war lifting.

2: Back in the 90s when FBI head shill Louis Freeh prosecuted the globo-drug gangsters he got ZERO convictions.  The FBI was coined in the same moment as the mob-billions of prohibition.  The FBI and the mob have the same parent: Woodrow Wilson via the 18th Crime and FBI Establishing Amendment. So, the FBI hates everything about freedom, the FBI should not even exist and is completely 100% unconstitutional.

3: Anyway at this rate they are dragging their feet nicely.  Mission nonccomplished!