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memvola
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October 19, 2011, 07:58:17 AM
 #41

Technically if you ddosed all the pools and went on to hit individual users with a coordinated strike by multiple botnets, you could then very easily 51% the network.

If you did that yes, but that part is not "very easy". You are talking about denying thousands of nodes instead of mere 10. It's just a matter of scale. The point is not if these networks can survive in their infancy, it's about which technology will be more resilient when they are big enough. That's why BCX's attack is not very useful at proving the point as well. When controlling these networks will be worth enough, DDOS will work for neither, just like DDOS'ing paypal wouldn't. The only point to be made, which is enough in my opinion, is that fewer points of failure is worse in principle. There is nothing stopping powerful entities from physically intervening with these nodes. I wouldn't want my money to be subject to the judgement of a few controlling entities.

Think of it this way... You could create a network of issuers and servers with OpenTransactions. Let's say, there are tens of these. There can be proxies and whatnot to protect their privacy, so the same methods apply. This way, you don't need to waste electricity on proof-of-work at all, and get the same protection of integrity. There are no 51% attacks. No more being subject to the "unfair distribution" argument as well. Distribute the money with free development bounties, so that all will be earned by hard work and issuers won't unjustly make money off of the currency itself. How is this not better?
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MrGaSp
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October 19, 2011, 07:59:51 AM
 #42

So let me get this straight.

Anyone can be a trusted node. All they have to do is accumulate 1 Million SC and become a node. Coinhunter specifically said Trusted Nodes cannot spend the 1Million coins because he had hard coded the chain against them. Are we really to believe to that anyone would donate a million SC just to be a Trusted Node?

It doesn't add up, seriously.

You have it wrong, only the original 10 trusted node's wallets can't be spent on the network.

and we KNOW this how?

We know because he said so =O
but we really don't KNOW

Ahimoth
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October 19, 2011, 08:03:34 AM
 #43

and we KNOW this how?

Yes, if anyone gets around to answering my distribution question above:  How do ya'll all know this?  Is this what the source says, or just what CH says (honest question)

Has the code been reviewed by an "independent third party", no it has not. The public will have to wait until the scheduled source release this weekend.
Raoul Duke
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October 19, 2011, 08:04:35 AM
 #44

We know because he said so =O
but we really don't KNOW

Are you talking about BCX attacks on Solidcoin 2.0?
How do you know they happened?

Lure yourself out of this one...

johnj
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October 19, 2011, 08:06:55 AM
 #45

Also if someone could tell me the 'why' of mining in SC 2.0 - if protection has already been achieved with the 'trusted nodes', why have 'the public' waste all that electricity mining?  Why is distribution still through mining?

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October 19, 2011, 08:08:59 AM
 #46

Those Coinhunter lap puppies are so easy to manipulate, I baited them right into that.

Once again, how do you know that the 10 Trusted Nodes cannot spend the coins?

~BCX~


(I imagine them huddled together, saying, uh what's the answer.....)

Just forget about Solidcoin 2.0... Let people will realize by themselves that this is crap...  ;-)

Let's make the Bitcoin better and better!!

Forget about SC2 BCX!

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Ahimoth
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October 19, 2011, 08:09:34 AM
 #47

Also if someone could tell me the 'why' of mining in SC 2.0 - if protection has already been achieved with the 'trusted nodes', why have 'the public' waste all that electricity mining?  Why is distribution still through mining?

That decision is up to the public, if they would rather buy the coins instead of mine them, then they are free to do so.
MrGaSp
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October 19, 2011, 08:11:41 AM
 #48

We know because he said so =O
but we really don't KNOW

Are you talking about BCX attacks on Solidcoin 2.0?
How do you know they happened?

Lure yourself out of this one...


1. Block Explorer
2. I said I was going to raise block rate to 4 blocks per second, right before I did it.
3. At one point it was fairly clear that over 20% of network connections were that EC2
4. I killed my EC2 farm and network EC2 dropped to less than 0.5%


^ and I wasn't

Edit: you'd known that if you looked at who i quoted instead of removing it

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October 19, 2011, 08:12:42 AM
 #49

Also if someone could tell me the 'why' of mining in SC 2.0 - if protection has already been achieved with the 'trusted nodes', why have 'the public' waste all that electricity mining?  Why is distribution still through mining?

That decision is up to the public, if they would rather buy the coins instead of mine them, then they are free to do so.
Remember these trusted nodes also MINE as well Smiley. If no one else is mining the difficulty stays low and they eat a bigger chunk of the pie.

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Spacy
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October 19, 2011, 08:13:15 AM
 #50

1. Block Explorer
2. I said I was going to raise block rate to 4 blocks per second, right before I did it.
3. At one point it was fairly clear that over 20% of network connections were that EC2
4. I killed my EC2 farm and network EC2 dropped to less than 0.5%

My weather attack:
1. Season knowledge
2. I said it was going to snow in the winter, right before it did
3. At one point it was very clear that this was because of the low temperature
4. In the spring I raised temperature again, and it stopped to snow!
Raoul Duke
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October 19, 2011, 08:13:52 AM
 #51

We know because he said so =O
but we really don't KNOW

Are you talking about BCX attacks on Solidcoin 2.0?
How do you know they happened?

Lure yourself out of this one...


1. Block Explorer
2. I said I was going to raise block rate to 4 blocks per second, right before I did it.
3. At one point it was fairly clear that over 20% of network connections were that EC2
4. I killed my EC2 farm and network EC2 dropped to less than 0.5%


I see nothing.. Only you talking, nothing more, no proof whatsoever...

^ and I wasn't

Edit: you'd known that if you looked at who i quoted instead of removing it

Your sarcasm detector is broken, dude... Was that caused by an imaginary BCX attack on your sarcasm neural network?

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October 19, 2011, 08:14:10 AM
 #52

@Ahimoth,

I take it the answer is you DO NOT know that the 10 trusted nodes coins cannot be spent, all you have is Coinhunter's word.

Is that correct and as an "IT Professional" this sits well with you?
Don't you think CoinHunter has alot more to loose by not pre-coding that clause into the code, and proving people like you wrong?

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johnj
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October 19, 2011, 08:14:12 AM
 #53

Also if someone could tell me the 'why' of mining in SC 2.0 - if protection has already been achieved with the 'trusted nodes', why have 'the public' waste all that electricity mining?  Why is distribution still through mining?

That decision is up to the public, if they would rather buy the coins instead of mine them, then they are free to do so.

I'm asking the rational of the protocol.  Why mining as a means of distribution?

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MrGaSp
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October 19, 2011, 08:14:15 AM
 #54

1. Block Explorer
2. I said I was going to raise block rate to 4 blocks per second, right before I did it.
3. At one point it was fairly clear that over 20% of network connections were that EC2
4. I killed my EC2 farm and network EC2 dropped to less than 0.5%

My weather attack:
1. Season knowledge
2. I said it was going to snow in the winter, right before it did
3. At one point it was very clear that this was because of the low temperature
4. In the spring I raised temperature again, and it stopped to snow!

Thats based off of historical facts.

Spacy
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October 19, 2011, 08:17:19 AM
 #55

If you said I am going to make it snow 2 1/2 inches in 15 minutes starting right now, YEAH I would believe you.

That's effectively what I did.

Yeah, you said something... That's it, nothing more...
FlipPro
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October 19, 2011, 08:21:00 AM
 #56

Also if someone could tell me the 'why' of mining in SC 2.0 - if protection has already been achieved with the 'trusted nodes', why have 'the public' waste all that electricity mining?  Why is distribution still through mining?

That decision is up to the public, if they would rather buy the coins instead of mine them, then they are free to do so.

I'm asking the rational of the protocol.  Why mining as a means of distribution?
Because mining controls inflation/deflation of the currency. The more people that sign on to the network, the less the currency inflates. This is a hypothetical 'economic equilibrium" that humanity has never seen before. If 1000 people sign off, the hyper fast algo follows thus allowing the currency to inflate, and makes it psychologically attractive again to "mine". This whole idea that "Deflation is GOOD, or INFLATION is BAD, or vice-versa are just 2 parts to the greater truth. The fact is you need both to run a successful economy, and what could be the best regulator to that test than difficulty itself?

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johnj
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October 19, 2011, 08:23:42 AM
 #57

Also if someone could tell me the 'why' of mining in SC 2.0 - if protection has already been achieved with the 'trusted nodes', why have 'the public' waste all that electricity mining?  Why is distribution still through mining?

That decision is up to the public, if they would rather buy the coins instead of mine them, then they are free to do so.

I'm asking the rational of the protocol.  Why mining as a means of distribution?
Because it controls inflation/deflation of the currency. The more people that sign on to the network, the less the currency inflates. This form a hypothetical 'economic equilibrium" that humanity has never seen before. If 1000 people sign off, the hyper fast algo follows thus allowing the currency to inflate, and make it psychologically attractive again to "mine". This whole idea that "Deflation is GOOD, or INFLATION is BAD, or vice-versa are just 2 parts to the greater truth. The fact is you need both to run a successful economy, and what could be the best regulator to that test than difficulty itself?

So SC detects the number of users (1000 people sign off), and not just the hash?

If it goes by 'users' (and thats who has to use money - people), then why is it distributed to who has the biggest rig?

Edit:  I mean, if 50% of the SC user base leaves, but one guy puts up a rig that equals those peoples lost hashrate, how is hashrate an indicator of economic deflation/inflation?

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Ahimoth
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October 19, 2011, 08:24:20 AM
 #58

@Ahimoth,

I take it the answer is you DO NOT know that the 10 trusted nodes coins cannot be spent, all you have is Coinhunter's word.

Is that correct and as an "IT Professional" this sits well with you?

Well, I assumed you had already decompiled the binaries. Apparently, this is a bad assumption on my part. If you had, you would probably find 10 addresses listed.


Admittedly, the existence of addresses does not mean there is code using them, but again you should be able to verify that yourself.
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October 19, 2011, 08:26:33 AM
 #59

Also if someone could tell me the 'why' of mining in SC 2.0 - if protection has already been achieved with the 'trusted nodes', why have 'the public' waste all that electricity mining?  Why is distribution still through mining?

That decision is up to the public, if they would rather buy the coins instead of mine them, then they are free to do so.

I'm asking the rational of the protocol.  Why mining as a means of distribution?
Because it controls inflation/deflation of the currency. The more people that sign on to the network, the less the currency inflates. This form a hypothetical 'economic equilibrium" that humanity has never seen before. If 1000 people sign off, the hyper fast algo follows thus allowing the currency to inflate, and make it psychologically attractive again to "mine". This whole idea that "Deflation is GOOD, or INFLATION is BAD, or vice-versa are just 2 parts to the greater truth. The fact is you need both to run a successful economy, and what could be the best regulator to that test than difficulty itself?

So SC detects the number of users (1000 people sign off), and not just the hash?

If it goes by 'users' (and thats who has to use money - people), then why is it distributed to who has the biggest rig?

Edit:  I mean, if 50% of the SC user base leaves, but one guy puts up a rig that equals those peoples lost hashrate, how is hashrate an indicator of economic deflation/inflation?
I meant to say "hash" sorry Smiley.

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FlipPro
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October 19, 2011, 08:29:03 AM
 #60

@Ahimoth,

I take it the answer is you DO NOT know that the 10 trusted nodes coins cannot be spent, all you have is Coinhunter's word.

Is that correct and as an "IT Professional" this sits well with you?

Well, I assumed you had already decompiled the binaries. Apparently, this is a bad assumption on my part. If you had, you would probably find 10 addresses listed.

If you knew anything at all about decompiling, you would know it is a messy process and is tedious. It doesn't produce clean code, and even in my advanced novice NOOB level of coding know the address aren't hardcoded. I am not a coder by no means, but I have quite afew engineers that work for me.

Don't worry with or without CH's release, we will get the source and develop a lethal SC killer.
FIXED  Cheesy

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