Open Letter to Mark Karpeles: Voluntary Reorganization Best Option for Us All

[DeathAndTaxes]

I am going to sue Mt. Gox for fraudulently selling me a product which they knew they didn't have.

I will be contacting my Lawyers in Tokyo who speak English tomorrow (Friday 28th)

If anyone want to get in with me and split costs, let me know ASAP.

If it turns out they don't have any money, would there still be a point in suing ?
Or if they still have a few million dollar, how will that go ? You were first to sue, so you get the biggest compensation part ?  To the one who sued a little late the judge is gonna say : Sorry mister, but that one pushed the trigger a little faster so he gets the money and you don't.

And to all the other thousand users who lost their money, sorry but your share will go to this user who sued first. Or how ?

That is the purpose of bankruptcy.  If MtGox can pay creditors 20% of what they owe then they are all paid 20% not some 100% and some 0%.  The big unknown is how the Japanese courts will treat bitcoin. 

[1713542603]

1713542603

[1713542603]

1713542603

[joehal]

That is the purpose of bankruptcy.  If MtGox can pay creditors 20% of what they owe then they are all paid 20% not some 100% and some 0%.  The big unknown is how the Japanese courts will treat bitcoin. 

Yes, but IF they lost most of the money, than there is a chance all the users will get 5 dollars compensation. Which of course will be pointless. BUt with the OP plan, there is a chance the users will get much more.

A properly functioning exchange can win a lot of money from fees.

[rwfreshmore]

That is the purpose of bankruptcy.  If MtGox can pay creditors 20% of what they owe then they are all paid 20% not some 100% and some 0%.  The big unknown is how the Japanese courts will treat bitcoin. 

Yes, but IF they lost most of the money, than there is a chance all the users will get 5 dollars compensation. Which of course will be pointless. BUt with the OP plan, there is a chance the users will get much more.

A properly functioning exchange can win a lot of money from fees.

Agreed, forget the limitations of the existing financial system. This is bitcoin. Those coins went somewhere. It's not like they can't be traced and discovered. It might be an extremely difficult audit but bitcoin itself makes it POSSIBLE.

If the coins can be identified there are all kinds of solutions that could be instituted on a social and technical level. I am pretty sure a HUGE part of the bitcoin investment community losing a HUGE investment doesn't benefit ANYONE. So i don't see how the community at large can't simply agree that we don't accept the loss. We have the ability to return the investment in one way or another.

[Technologov]

I disagree to let Mark keep the exchange. And convert debt to shares in this incompetent business CEO Mark is a dumb idea.

Let Mt.Gox go bankrupt. This will allow for more responsible businesses to take the market.

[alvarezpja]

It's difficult for such a big number of gox users to agree on the way to proceed after the fiasco, but Daniel's proposal sounds ok to me.

I'm in.

[Abracadaver]

I like the idea.

[BitCoinNutJob]

I like the idea.

so like it :p

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MtGox-Recovery-Initiative/1394428424158424

[myrond]

Existing bearer bonds and shares are not illegal but it is no longer legal to issue new bearer shares and bonds in virtually all countries.  Maybe somolia allows it but even many offshore locations revised their statutes in the last couple decades.    There are a lot of outstanding US treasury bearer bonds.  They no longer pay interest but they are normally used as a "reallllly" big cash note so they probably will never be redeemed.

BTW: Nevada prohibited the issuance of bearer shares in 2007.
http://law.justia.com/codes/nevada/2010/title7/chapter78/nrs78-235.html

edit: is it possible to create a blockchain based registry of ownership and not have them be bearer shares?

Sure if the blockchain can verify the identity of all shareholders, collect and store required information, ensure shareholders are accredited before issuing shares, enforce restrictions on transfers for private placements as required by securities laws, and file all necessary documents with regulators in a timely manner.

DeathAndTaxes:

What if a settlement was done where gox account users take a haircut, for the haircut they get a corporation in the Marshall Island which owns MtGox or a large percentage of it.

That corporation could do bearer shares.

I have no idea for numbers of value, but surely that would be more valuable then trying to extract cash via bankruptcy + overhead of lawyers.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Existing bearer bonds and shares are not illegal but it is no longer legal to issue new bearer shares and bonds in virtually all countries.  Maybe somolia allows it but even many offshore locations revised their statutes in the last couple decades.    There are a lot of outstanding US treasury bearer bonds.  They no longer pay interest but they are normally used as a "reallllly" big cash note so they probably will never be redeemed.

BTW: Nevada prohibited the issuance of bearer shares in 2007.
http://law.justia.com/codes/nevada/2010/title7/chapter78/nrs78-235.html

edit: is it possible to create a blockchain based registry of ownership and not have them be bearer shares?

Sure if the blockchain can verify the identity of all shareholders, collect and store required information, ensure shareholders are accredited before issuing shares, enforce restrictions on transfers for private placements as required by securities laws, and file all necessary documents with regulators in a timely manner.

DeathAndTaxes:

What if a settlement was done where gox account users take a haircut, for the haircut they get a corporation in the Marshall Island which owns MtGox or a large percentage of it.

That corporation could do bearer shares.

I have no idea for numbers of value, but surely that would be more valuable then trying to extract cash via bankruptcy + overhead of lawyers.

Anything is possible.  Someone genuinely interested should be getting counsel from a lawyer with experience in international securities.

[hdbuck]

i am just going to post this here:

http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/000617

sorry for your loss.

[bitcoinvest]

sorry for your loss.

i think this is the second time i pressed the ignore ...


Now back to our point.

I find it good in conditionds..... what are the news so far?

[mitchizm]

Note: Please Join IRC ##mtgox-statement to join our discussion

is this IRC Channel on EFNET or what? I am sitting in an empty channel.

[hdbuck]

sorry for your loss.

i think this is the second time i pressed the ignore ...


Now back to our point.

I find it good in conditionds..... what are the news so far?

yeah well, first come denial and isolation as explained in the article. *whatever. Have a nice time bargaining.

[overc]

This is the simple and straight-forward plan how to ressurect Mt.Gox:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492748.0

[thelema93]

ok so there is no-one in this chat room: #mtgox-statement  

I am actually doing something real about this:

This is my latest letter from my Lawyer:

-------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. X,

OK. We’ll send the bill to you tomorrow or Monday morning.

MG applied not bankruptcy, but restructuring or rehabilitation.

You can’t file a lawsuit anymore, but you can claim your right as the creditor and participate the procedure through a lawyer ( the lawyer of MG said there’s still some assets in the bank ).

Regards,
Z
-------------------------------------------------------------

Sound's interesting. I will definitely do this. If you want to join us, please PM ME ASAP.

[joehal]

The problem is if there are a lot of money lost, there is a chance everyone will get a very small percent.
 The original OP plan has a better chance to recover all the money for everyone. Of course it will take time, perhaps years.
 But if the lawsuits go through it will take years ANYWAY but everyone will get pennies.

[Swordsoffreedom]

This is one possibility among many but I do like the general premise of it fight on fight on to bring about positive change.

[MinerLT]

The problem is if there are a lot of money lost, there is a chance everyone will get a very small percent.
 The original OP plan has a better chance to recover all the money for everyone. Of course it will take time, perhaps years.
 But if the lawsuits go through it will take years ANYWAY but everyone will get pennies.

exactly!

[DeathAndTaxes]

The problem is if there are a lot of money lost, there is a chance everyone will get a very small percent.
 The original OP plan has a better chance to recover all the money for everyone. Of course it will take time, perhaps years.
 But if the lawsuits go through it will take years ANYWAY but everyone will get pennies.

The problem with the OP is that it ignores factual reality.  MtGox is in bankruptcy (protection), it can't leave that status until the courts agree.   Naming a couple hundred thousand (mostly unaccredited) shareholders to a private company isn't legal in Japan (or most places) and the courts are going to sign off an an illegal re-organization.

[mo2t]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yyrvf/open_letter_to_mark_karpeles_voluntary/

Note: Please Join IRC ##mtgox-statement to join our discussion

Dear Mr. Mark Karpeles,

...

Daniel J. Kelman, Esq.

Hi Daniel, some similar activity on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492748.60 , maybe you can cooperate. Just sending.