The one hurdle that will kill Bitcoin (and any other altcoin)

[DrMaximum]

Hi guys,


First of all, I love Bitcoin and I want nothing more than BTC to succeed.

But I think BTC ( or any cryptocurrency ) will overcome all it' hurdles, but one :
governments.

Because let's face it, governments can lose their income and lots of power
to bitcoin, and they can easily just say "no" to BTC.

Yes they could legalize it, but ,in that case, very likely Bitcon will be taxed and regulated to death anyway.
The current financial world will also lose a lot of business to BTC, and they won't sit back and do nothing.
Keep in mind they have loads of political power.

The only scenario where I ever see BTC to succeed, would be if gov's go on to ignore BTC for years and years...
In the mean time BTC would need to become so mainstream, that banning it would mean economic shutdown
for a country. But I don't see govs waiting that long..

Every other issue like, volatility, ease of use, hot wallet vulnerability,... I is gonna get solved as time goes on
but that's not enough...

what does Bitcointalk think ?

[pungopete468]

As a free human being you're the only one who can subject yourself to them.

Bitcoin is protected in the United States by the First Amendment. Bitcoin is a ledger; a digital book of accounting. You're using this book of account with permission from the creator who made this an open source project.

If the United States adopts Bitcoin (not just accepts it but actually adopts it) and opens a professional exchange in New York with partners being banks, corporations, and other large entities; the UK and then eventually the rest of the world will do the same. It's like anything else in business, you can't just sit back and watch your competitor making money without attempting to do so yourself.

If the USA just said, "no Bitcion" it would be viewed as a blatant infringement on Constitutional rights regarding the First and Fifth Amendments.

[kqpahv]

Hi guys,


First of all, I love Bitcoin and I want nothing more than BTC to succeed.

But I think BTC ( or any cryptocurrency ) will overcome all it' hurdles, but one :
governments.

Because let's face it, governments can lose their income and lots of power
to bitcoin, and they can easily just say "no" to BTC.

Yes they could legalize it, but ,in that case, very likely Bitcon will be taxed and regulated to death anyway.
The current financial world will also lose a lot of business to BTC, and they won't sit back and do nothing.
Keep in mind they have loads of political power.

The only scenario where I ever see BTC to succeed, would be if gov's go on to ignore BTC for years and years...
In the mean time BTC would need to become so mainstream, that banning it would mean economic shutdown
for a country. But I don't see govs waiting that long..

Every other issue like, volatility, ease of use, hot wallet vulnerability,... I is gonna get solved as time goes on
but that's not enough...

what does Bitcointalk think ?

Fck the financial system and what they want. You cant stop evolution. It is the same with the media business -  they are loaded and have been lobbying so hard to undercut digital media. Have they succeeded ? Netflix,Spotify etc are getting bigger and bigger and that is the way it's gonna be in the future and there nothing the media companies can do about it. That is what is going to happen to digital currencies as well.
As for the goverments and regulation - Obviously it will have to be regulated and taxed. For most people bitcoin isnt a way to avoid taxes and launder money so I really dont mind. There is so much more about bitcoin than that.
Tax the shit out of it ? You paying the same taxes as with any other currency/commodity

[DrMaximum]

@ pungopete468

yeah am really hoping that NY exchange will happen

[keithers]

I'm on the zeroblock iphone app, and whenever i see a thread title like this, i always know it is someone brand new here. No offense

[DrMaximum]

I'm on the zeroblock iphone app, and whenever i see a thread title like this, i always know it is someone brand new here. No offense

Cheers alround, You've won the prize, am new on btctalk.org  
However I've been trading on bitcoin.de for a few months now

The net is full of believers that are exited and enthusiastic about BTC ( and thank god for that ) .
Many will tell you that gov wont kill BTC

However none can give a solid argument why gov. won't kill BTC


When the US has quite a few exchanges that are partnered up with major banks,
(and more of them in WEST-Europe in stead of Eastern-Euro )

my skepticism will go down significantly !

[cottoneyeJoe]

If the USA just said, "no Bitcion" it would be viewed as a blatant infringement on Constitutional rights regarding the First and Fifth Amendments.

The strategy in the near term isnt to say no to bitcoin. It's to:

A) relegate it to the utility of beanie babies and tulips by making it illegal or at least massively difficult to do any business exchanging btc to and from fiat currencies.

B) hunting down and making very public dramatic arrests of two-bit drug dealers, child pr0n sickos, wanna be money launderers (the pros use dollars and black pesos, or go to HSBC), freedom fighters/terrorists and any and all other "undesirables" they can find that have ever touched a satoshi.

C) Using the global threat of BTC to strengthen the cooperation and information sharing between the legacy banking system. Total financial surveillance is the goal and btc is a great scapegoat.

They seem to be winning big in these areas.

We seem to be bashing our heads against this "last mile" issue of converting btc to and from fiat. I wonder, could we shift some of the attention from btc as a currency and instead focus on btc as a means of exchange. I suspect not. I suspect greed and the general weakness of the human condition will win out. But...

Could we barter services from each other for btc? E-lance/Stack Exchange paid solely in btc?

What if a small cooperative of people doing anything really, but say growing food locally or trying to get their kids to and from school and looked after while parents endure their hours long commute, agreed to use a fixed pool (a fork) of btc to trade responsibilities for duties?

Could some btc philanthropist/early adopter start a volunteer program where by people get paid in btc for doing community service type work? You do some work, earn some btc from that fork, then can pay for stuff you need done with your earnings. Alt coins show that it is almost trivial to create your own fork and then you can use that as a public ledger for any closed community doing just about anything.

Sure, this is all easily dismissed as wishful hippie bullshit. But really, absent something dramatic and probably undesirable like JP Morgan opening an exchange, so much focus on converting to and from fiat is really missing the point and power of btc, IMHO.

[Sheldor333]

Government will not ignore bitcoin. It will tax it like everything else. Other then that I don't think they care much about it. Those who care about it are bankers, they will first get a sizable part of bitcoins in their hands, or if they can't they will make government involved so that it is regulated a lot. I don't see something else happening.

[BitOnyx]

I am not afraid of regulation of bitcoin since it is nearly impossible. Taxation of bitcoin, what already appear in money transfer tax and income tax, would be much bigger problem. Besides it is international currency. It would require cooperation of many countrys, large variety of international law changes.

[FelixOliver]

wow, just realised how many people actually fear the government.

Once Bitcoin takes off, the government will sound find themselves stuffed deep inside the pages of history.

Do we really need to be governed in 2014?... Do we still need to pay illogical taxes?... the answer is no

Bitcoin will finally make the masses realize that they really can do it all themselves

[franky1]

Because let's face it, governments can lose their income and lots of power
to bitcoin, and they can easily just say "no" to BTC.

as long as governments keep their legal tender laws and minimum wage laws. they will still keep the FIAT circulating. also when people buy bitcoin, someone else equally sells theirs. so again FIAT does not disapear, it simple changes accounts (again circulating)

Yes they could legalize it, but ,in that case, very likely Bitcon will be taxed and regulated to death anyway.

bitcoin is not the property of any government. governments can only tax their own property. that being FIAT and fossil fuels they purchase.

The current financial world will also lose a lot of business to BTC, and they won't sit back and do nothing.
Keep in mind they have loads of political power.

when people buy bitcoin there is a equal person selling (yes im repeating myself) same goes for merchants. when they cash out their bitcoin back to fiat. somewhere along the line someone has cashed in. thus there is a balance.

The only scenario where I ever see BTC to succeed, would be if gov's go on to ignore BTC for years and years...
In the mean time BTC would need to become so mainstream, that banning it would mean economic shutdown
for a country. But I don't see govs waiting that long..

you seem to be under the delusion that bitcoin needs to take over and replace FIAT. bitcoin can work along side different countries FIAT. even if in the future there was just a 2% population uptake of bitcoin. this alone would be far far far higher then the numbers today and the usefulness would be soooooo much greater. it does not require 100% uptake to be mainstream.

Every other issue like, volatility, ease of use, hot wallet vulnerability,... I is gonna get solved as time goes on
but that's not enough...
what does Bitcointalk think ?

i think your stretching the issues far beyond exaduration, i think your worrying about things that need not be worried about and i think that bitcoin has no reason or potential to die. users will come and go. but bitcoin will live on

[Lauda]

Regulated to death?
I'm getting tired of this.
http://bitlegal.net/

That regulation to death, it burns.

[DrMaximum]

Regulated to death?
I'm getting tired of this.
http://bitlegal.net/

That regulation to death, it burns.

I hope you do realize that 95% of the green country's on that chart are just ignoring bitcoin right now

[ISAWHIM]

government = irrelevant to BTC

they only control the money they had printed for us, on their grounds

BTC = electrons, represented as numbers... No govt controls electrons or numbers.

Government is a poor hurdle. Govts fall easy. War-toys or not... If no-one is willing to do what you say, your toys are useless. If you say, kill our people... What would you actually have left to govern, if that did happen... Nothing but a few timid people who couldn't afford to keep paying for your war-toys.

WE OWN THE GOVT. THE GOVT DOES NOT OWN US. (If you still believe that they own you, when they tell you to believe that they own you, you have failed as a human.)

The big scare is that banks own the govt toys, by loans and debt... and they are losing this war... (Have lost, they just don't realize it yet.)

[DrMaximum]

Yes they could legalize it, but ,in that case, very likely Bitcon will be taxed and regulated to death anyway.

bitcoin is not the property of any government. governments can only tax their own property. that being FIAT and fossil fuels they purchase.

The gov can easily tax the use of bitcoin (transaction, the buying / selling of BTC ..). It can easily be regulated in a way that you can only legally own a known BTC account, that account could easily be taxed

your income, isn't really the gov.s property either, yet where I live it's heavily taxed, along with your savings, any money you inherent, bank transactions, ...
there's even been discussion on taxing profits you've made from the stock markerts 

you seem to be under the delusion that bitcoin needs to take over and replace FIAT. bitcoin can work along side different countries FIAT. even if in the future there was just a 2% population uptake of bitcoin. this alone would be far far far higher then the numbers today and the usefulness would be soooooo much greater. it does not require 100% uptake to be mainstream.

If BTC should ever be as stable or more stable even than the $ and €, is't more a question of "do current fiats still have reason to exist alongside BTC"

but, you know what my view is, governments will provide regulations that restrict the use of BTC, so that the fiat that's under their control,
can't disappear



yet again
I think it's fair to say no real answer has been given on this issue

[Pentax]

I do think this is a hurdle, although I don't see government killing it.

why?

because nothing about it is inherently illegal.  people can use it in illegal ways, and they're busting those that do.  governments can, of course, pass laws to make it illegal, but they can do that for just about anything, if you adjust the dials on your conspiracy TV just right.  

beyond that, it makes no sense to outlaw something that can make money in the form of taxes, jobs, new innovations etc.  It is also obvious, by the rumblings at Chase, and by listening to PayPal and the rest talk about launching their own digital wallets and or currencies, that these people don't think it's illegal either, rather they also see it as a possible wave of the future.

some people are scared as hell of it, but that's the way with anything new that they do not understand and are therefore threatened by.  as it becomes more widely used people will chill the hell out, including Big Brother.  

[DrMaximum]

the difference is that bitcoin undermines the gov when it becomes to stable and widespread

they will get interested some day !

right now big brother isn't interested and likely they wouldn't even know what to do with it if they were
witch is not a comferting thought

[adicted]

Doge coin and Lite Coin

[Elwar]

Which government will stop Bitcoin?

[Skoupi]

How the hell governments lose income and power to bitcoin.
Do they lose income and power to gold?

If people pay their taxes like they do when they make purchases with cash then
what's the problem for governments.