[BOUNTY] 🔥🔥WINNER-GETS-ALL / PROOF-OF-TRANSACTION CONSENSUS DEBATE BOUNTY!🔥🔥

[Jipy jipy]

the sybil attack is still possible, but using some kind of  recaptcha would indeed make a sybil attack much harder and more expensive for the attacker. Maybe even some decentralized authentication is possible for transactions? https://medium.com/@linonetwork/proof-of-human-engagement-on-decentralized-networks-6a87f50d7d55

[Sone11]

Let me ask one provocative question, what is the reason for the tight binding of the wallet to the account on Facebook? And is the loss of a Facebook account a threat of losing or stealing funds from my wallet?

Actually I wondered of a FB linked web wallet might make it easier to integrate Tau into other applications such as FB linked games or apps (casino games!)

Wallet of tau eventually will be App Store. Any ones can build their wallet. We will be welcome everyone build wallet and App Store.

Good to know that this is the likely trajectory of the project as connecting to a webwallet or not using separate application would be just lame. You have to build an environment like that of apple on a security level but still more of decentralized and open in other means without compromising security.

[bobthegrownup]

PLEASE USE THIS THREAD ONLY FOR DEBATING

There are many ideas that we have to look at and evaluate. The noise and clutter isn't helping

There are no incentives to posting to this thread so for the love of Satoshi, please think before posting here. If you want to praise the project, feel free to do so on the main ANN thread or in Telegram but keep this space reserved to debating and discussing the merits of Proof-of-Transaction

[imorpheus]

Most advanced technology are solving more problems with less energy. Bitcoin seems to using more energy to do less transaction. From my gut feeling, it can not be right.
Tau aims to deal with huge amout of transaction using less computing power, the more transaction, the faster the network.
POW becomes really more energy-consuming in comparison with POT, but I'm wondering how the developer will fight spam in the network?

We have discussed heavily in white paper to fight spam.
https://www.taucoin.io/whitePaper/TAU%20White%20Paper%20v0.1.pdf

[imorpheus]

Debating on a good coin … the more the faster and lower cost
It is hard to predict what a good crypto coin is. We can compare to some currently successful consumer products.
iPhone, less energy and price to get more power. LED TV, less space, energy and cost to get more size and color. Hybrid car, less gas to more mileage.
If we look at proof of work consensus coin, one BTC transaction cost the electricity equal to one American weekly consumption and keep on going up. 9 years ago, it cost almost nothing to run BTC transactions. Will you feel right this is the best way to support currency future?
Sign of a good technology is reducing cost to get more utility and speed when more and more people adopt it.
Therefore, the consensus TAU foundation is constructing and believing must have following features:
when more people use,
The faster the transaction
The lower the transaction cost
The more secure the currency
The less energy it uses
The more pervasive full nodes are

[imorpheus]

Am I right? Proof of Transaction can be considered as PoW itself but consuming super less energy. The condition for this is to how to set up the consensus protocol on the blockchain itself. Someone send me taucoin with 15k coins I estimated the time it was received was 5mins utmost. If the transaction for 15k coin is at time like that how about sending millions? Can be worth while to receive or will be the same?

POT is different from POW that energy to solve puzzle is zero. Block chain does not know it is 15k or 1m, all it cares is how much bites this amount takes. It protects 1m as secure as 1cent, or if 1 cent is corrupted, the whole 10billion is corrupted. Tau foundation is lucky to open up the line of research in proof of transaction. We found it is a fast, fair, secure and light consensus.

[imorpheus]

On the record list below the balance the transaction made connected doesnt show on the record list. I think it should be like what on ethereum etherscan that all transactions should be visible. I get that the wallet is connected yet on facebook but can I know if once the wallet is released on octobet 1 this kind of features will provided by taucoin wallet. I think should be!

our web based blockchain explorer is in very beginning. Will upgrade for sure.

[imorpheus]

TAU Exchange (TAU-X) built for the community

TAU-X is a swapping program between BTC pool and TAU pool every 360 blocks. Any user can freely invest BTC or TAU into relative pool to receive opposite coins on each swap.

It was a hard choice for the foundation to decide ICO or TAU-X. ICO is an established funds raising method to obtain resources. However, it does not do too much for the community. In most ICOs, none of the proceedings go to community.

I believe the most important fact for a coin to be successful is the community satisfaction. Especially many community members collect coins through bounty working program like helping translating, you-tubing and promotion. Rather than ICO, Tau foundation chose to operate TAU-X and invite all members to participate from day one. In each swap, the foundation only puts 60,000 TAUs into the pool and looks forward to seeing community to put much more to exchange available BTCs.

TAU-X starts supporting BTC/TAU exchange with potential to add more exchange pairs. In total TAU coins, 82% is allocated to bounty programs and exchange sale. While bounty programs reduces entry barrier for common people obtain TAUs, TAU-X program increases liquidity for existing TAU currency holders and provides a fair investment option for BTC holders. Everyone can access TAU-X from their web wallet.

[TheMobius8]

Why not every 628 blocks (tau day) instead of 360. Tau is radian not degree related!

[imorpheus]

Why not every 628 blocks (tau day) instead of 360. Tau is radian not degree related!

What is a tau day?

[cryptocurrenciesboom]

It was a hard choice for the foundation to decide ICO or TAU-X. ICO is an established funds raising method to obtain resources. However, it does not do too much for the community. In most ICOs, none of the proceedings go to community.

So, it turns out you decided to completely remove the idea of ​​carrying out the program ico, replacing it with an exchanger TAU-X. Then it turns out that the final terms for the distribution of tokens are completely absent. Is that right? Again a question arises that is especially important for potential investors: how to track how many tokens have already been sold and how much money has the project collected?

[cryptocurrenciesboom]

TAU Exchange (TAU-X) built for the community
TAU-X is a swapping program between BTC pool and TAU pool every 360 blocks. Any user can freely invest BTC or TAU into relative pool to receive opposite coins on each swap.

Maybe I'm in a lot of hurry, while the wallet is being developed for TAU storage, what additional functionality is planned to use? Will it be possible to store other tokens on my wallet? (then the wallet would be an independent product from the implementation of the project itself) Will atomic swaps be maintained? (can TAU-X idea help to do this?) Can be added gate for communication with traditional currencies? etc

[Sone11]

It was a hard choice for the foundation to decide ICO or TAU-X. ICO is an established funds raising method to obtain resources. However, it does not do too much for the community. In most ICOs, none of the proceedings go to community.

So, it turns out you decided to completely remove the idea of ​​carrying out the program ico, replacing it with an exchanger TAU-X. Then it turns out that the final terms for the distribution of tokens are completely absent. Is that right? Again a question arises that is especially important for potential investors: how to track how many tokens have already been sold and how much money has the project collected?

What do you mean distribution? Some bounty rewards have been distributed already. I think they have to do a lot of distributions to keep transactions running.

To add i'm not sure if i'm in the right thread but anyone is open for any opposition. That this project should create more system of transaction to get things running. I don't know like burning a very small portion of every transactions to make another transaction.

[imorpheus]

It was a hard choice for the foundation to decide ICO or TAU-X. ICO is an established funds raising method to obtain resources. However, it does not do too much for the community. In most ICOs, none of the proceedings go to community.

So, it turns out you decided to completely remove the idea of ​​carrying out the program ico, replacing it with an exchanger TAU-X. Then it turns out that the final terms for the distribution of tokens are completely absent. Is that right? Again a question arises that is especially important for potential investors: how to track how many tokens have already been sold and how much money has the project collected?

82% coins goes to bounty and tau exchange(tau-x) in a faucet fashion. We will create all kind of bounty program around the global to get people coins, at same time, each 360 block, foundation will sell 60,000 tau to keep lights on.
At this moment, the project is fully funded by team, not yet receive external money. The coin distribution data need to be shown on website, good idea. I shall do that.

[imorpheus]

TAU Exchange (TAU-X) built for the community
TAU-X is a swapping program between BTC pool and TAU pool every 360 blocks. Any user can freely invest BTC or TAU into relative pool to receive opposite coins on each swap.

Maybe I'm in a lot of hurry, while the wallet is being developed for TAU storage, what additional functionality is planned to use? Will it be possible to store other tokens on my wallet? (then the wallet would be an independent product from the implementation of the project itself) Will atomic swaps be maintained? (can TAU-X idea help to do this?) Can be added gate for communication with traditional currencies? etc

The current core function for app wallet is the security storage. We use web wallet for lots of fun stuff.
True atomic swap need to be supported by both chain such as tau and bitcoin, this will take time. Web wallet swap is always supported, maybe extent to app wallet. We currently do not plan to add traditional fiat in wallet, that cause too much kyc/aml issue.

[imorpheus]

What do you mean distribution? Some bounty rewards have been distributed already. I think they have to do a lot of distributions to keep transactions running.
create more system of transaction to get things running. I don't know like burning a very small portion of every transactions to make another transaction.

Distribution is through bounty and tau-x for long time. Getting more people taucoins is important.
We are not burning coins.

[Sone11]

What do you mean distribution? Some bounty rewards have been distributed already. I think they have to do a lot of distributions to keep transactions running.
create more system of transaction to get things running. I don't know like burning a very small portion of every transactions to make another transaction.

Distribution is through bounty and tau-x for long time. Getting more people taucoins is important.
We are not burning coins.

It's just one of the suggestions but you have to create some system to pour in more transactions. Won't harm to introduce creative marketing stuff that can be in place permanently. Hope I sound right 

[akosipepot]

I would also like to know how TAU is protected against the following hypothetical attacks:

Greedy Flock Problem

I notice you have now changed the whitepaper to say that harvest power is now determined by the cumulative transaction fee paid in a pre-defined window. However, in the early days of the TAU network, this can easily be exploited by a determined individual to gain majority control over the block rewards. For example, if there a total of 10 harvest clubs existing of equal size (in terms of harvest power per unit time), then we would expect the rewards distributed to each of these clubs to be approximately equal. However, if one of these clubs suddenly offers a large incentive for users to switch (the early bird), then this will lead to a massive reduction in number of harvest clubs as everybody flocks to the single incentivized club. This would essentially easily allow one relatively high net worth individual to take over the entire network by incentivizing harvest club switching.

False Incentives

You mentioned previously that some harvest clubs would profit more on reputation rather than the transaction fees, which might actually lead them to incentivize club members by taking a loss. However, this leads them open to being sniped by other malicious groups which offer false incentives to get new members, e.g. $100 BTC per member, then chooses to ignore signal transactions to lock them in. If properly designed, this scam could lead to the creation of high harvest power clubs which members cannot escape from easily, whilst the club leader takes the entire reward.

Potential Resolution: Terms of the harvest club should be displayed to club members via a signal transaction from the club leader. This signal transaction would include data pertaining to the harvest reward schedule offered by the club.

The Bait and Switch

Under the new cumulative fee window system, there is an additional possible attack where a harvest club leader can achieve almost entire monopoly over the harvest rewards. Imagine a scenario where a successful harvest club manages to achieve among the highest cumulative fee, therefore achieving a sizeable fraction of future rewards. The club leader can then simply claim that the harvest club is shutting down, leading everybody to leave the club to join another. However, this was simply a bait, once all the club members have left, the club leader will then be in full control over the club, and hence be the sole beneficiary of the block rewards.

Potential Resolution: Implement a voting system to force change the harvest club leader.

Overall, I feel like the signal transaction concept is under utilized. Signal transactions should also be used to carry information relating to the parameters of the harvest club to its members and notify them of any changes. It would also be a good idea to allow people to set a timer on their harvest power delegation, either by automatically sending another signal transaction on X data (via the wallet), or by including a self-destruct parameter in the signal itself.

Identification vulnerability
I suspect that the signal transaction feature, though quite useful for the purposes of TAU, will also enable global blockchain analysis companies to easily track and identify relationships between wallet holders, as signal transactions can be considered a more intimate transaction than a standard one, therefore highlighting friendships, business relationships and partnerships, rather than commerce transactions. I suspect public visibility of signal transactions on the blockchain will eventually lead to a much more complete database of ID/Wallet holders compared to other similar projects such as Bitcoin. I think this can be resolved by ommitting one-half of the wallet details on the blockchain (or possibly both halves).

Also, there are issues whereby the harvest club leader can force its club members to collude with it for nefarious purposes by holding the block rewards hostage. For this reason I think a voting system is definitely necessary.

[imorpheus]

I would also like to know how TAU is protected against the following hypothetical attacks:...

Amazing analysis. We are digesting hard now, and thanks for the potential solution and the voting system upgrade, which is our big next step.

[lodyman]

Greedy Flock Problem
False Incentives

Those attacks are almost impossible by the current Design ..,

As the harvest clubs can increase their harvest power by increasing their number of members it will be almost balanced forever as more and more people joining a specific club increasing it's harvest power to take over the most incentives .,
that incentive will be divided into more people leading to equilibrium state at the end of the day

Let's say we have a greedy club leader having 25% of all signals and total number of addresses that can provide signals are 400k addresses ,
100k Signal TXs / 100k club member ., so if they have 25% of all network votes the rewards will be payed to the club members automatically and equally so that will make the rewards almost equal to another club which owns 1% of signals and having 1% of the rewards .

The Bait and Switch

Again after people switch from the club to another the incentive which is payed to the club leader will be decreased as his number of signals will decrease at the same time the other clubs's signals will increase leading again to the point where he only gets what he deserves

Identification vulnerability

Nope !!

People won't give a potato who is the club owner as long as he pays *not even manually * And that voting system is a already a core feature of TAU .
and that timer and self destruct is a good idea TBH

Although the current system isn't flawless and have room for some manipulations with TX spam and mass addresses owners .. all that can be fixed if a number of TAUs will be locked for a certain amount of blocks for each new address and for each created TX  "not forever as XRP as that's called theft "and will still allow painless micro-payments .
Also the harvest power should be automatically decreased if the node isn't always online or under-performing .