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Author Topic: Consumer protection/scams/ Bitcoin/reporter looking for sources  (Read 1099 times)
stephaniewsj (OP)
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February 27, 2014, 07:38:26 PM
 #1

I'm a reporter at The Wall Street Journal and I'm reaching out on this forum in hopes of finding sources who may have concerns when it comes to consumer protections for Bitcoin users -- I'm especially looking for people in the U.S. who may have lost money/felt scammed and are willing to share their story, as well as Bitcoin users who may want to comment on the recent push by some regulators who say there should be protections in place to safeguard consumers -- is this a good idea? Why or why not? Please feel free to email me directly at Stephanie.Armour@wsj.com.
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February 27, 2014, 08:40:24 PM
 #2

I'm a reporter at The Wall Street Journal and I'm reaching out on this forum in hopes of finding sources who may have concerns when it comes to consumer protections for Bitcoin users -- I'm especially looking for people in the U.S. who may have lost money/felt scammed and are willing to share their story, as well as Bitcoin users who may want to comment on the recent push by some regulators who say there should be protections in place to safeguard consumers -- is this a good idea? Why or why not? Please feel free to email me directly at Stephanie.Armour@wsj.com.

hi stephanie, this forum + reddit + irc will provide pretty much all the info you need about people's opinions.
noone will agree on what the best and only way to proceed is. it is also not likely that the government's of the world will ever have a unified solution either.

when bitcoins first started people truly enjoyed the idea of "privacy and anonymity" which is still very important to the heart of the bitcoin community. what happened is that because the community relied on privacy and being anonymous too much (and bitcoins were worth very little) they trusted random, unproven people with their bitcoins. "if i want to be anonymous so should the person holding my bitcoins". that's why everything until 2013 has been run mostly by "anonymous" and or incompetent people, with no accountability, amateurs. with bitcoins being an experiment they were worth very little and noone expected them to grow so big, so fast. people didn't take security seriously and the people offering services with were either way over their head or just thieves. the current laws already apply to bitcoin: don't commit fraud, don't commit theft and so forth. so it's not like any new laws really need to be written but people need to either 1) hold bitcoins themselves 2) only give their bitcoins to companies that are transparent, have the correct team in place and are a real, serious business.

as bitcoin gains value and acceptance many things will work themselves out on their own (through a very heavy toll on the public) but some regulation won't be bad. it's just that the framework is already there to insure protection. it's up to the company or service you are dealing with to hold up their end of the contract! i think the consumer now has a choice to deal with companies that have positive reputation and care about accountability: bitpay, coinbase, bitstamp, many others or deal with amateurs like gox or give their trust to complete strangers like inputs.io or mybitcoin. the full spectrum of trust to shadiness exists.

there have been many scams in the "securities" section as well. some of the scams are unintentional while others were fraud to begin with (see labcoin as an example). companies like BFL, Avalon etc have already broken real laws already in place. companies doing illegal things with bitcoins is no different that companies doing illegal things with any other currency or form of payment. as i've mentioned earlier - now is the turning point where people don't really want to lose their digital currency and people are going to be much more careful about who they trust with what. eventually, things will work themselves out but proper guidance/"regulation" can be used as assistance. it would be a shame if regulation is used to kill innovation.

-if you do want to use any quote in your article (i've never been featured in wsj)  just use my username Smiley

good luck with your piece, please make it as factual and unbiased as possible. long live bitcoin!

ok
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February 27, 2014, 08:41:39 PM
 #3

We already have things in place for consumer protection, regulation, and scams. However, they are just not being used effectively, at the moment, in direct relation to BTC and other forms of crypt-currency.

Knowledge is power. Informing people of "what to demand", "what to expect", and "where to go", for use and resolution is better to talk about than adding more useless "unique" variations of the existing laws and protections that already exist.

However, aiding the singular location, that shares this knowledge, for BTC or any other crypto-coin variation, would be a big step forward. The bitcoin foundation should have done that also.

All of this should be done by the community. This is the communities coin, the communities dollar, the communities value, the communities bank. If the Govt's and States want to use it, then they need to make it a "legal form of tender". However, they will never control it. Nor should they be allowed to. It is not their property, unless they mined it themselves, or purchased it. (Then they can only regulate the coins they hold, as we regulate the coins we hold now.)

Just the fact that the Govt is cashing them in, makes it legal tender. They have tendered it, and they can not do anything illegal. Thus, it has been deemed by the supreme-court, as legal tender of some form, as they were given rights to "cash-out" the coins in possession through acquisition and seizure. Turning the BTC tender into asset-value or currency. (Otherwise, that would be the govt participating in laundering, and/or theft itself, if it was not legal tender of some form.)
Pentax
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February 27, 2014, 09:18:04 PM
Last edit: February 28, 2014, 12:59:02 PM by Pentax
 #4

I'm a reporter at The Wall Street Journal and I'm reaching out on this forum in hopes of finding sources who may have concerns when it comes to consumer protections for Bitcoin users -- I'm especially looking for people in the U.S. who may have lost money/felt scammed and are willing to share their story, as well as Bitcoin users who may want to comment on the recent push by some regulators who say there should be protections in place to safeguard consumers -- is this a good idea? Why or why not? Please feel free to email me directly at Stephanie.Armour@wsj.com.


write a story about Sean's Outpost or bitcoin100.org or the economy springing up around bitcoin, the possible innovations, or the good bitcoin is now, and may possibly be doing for people going forward?  ya know, include some of the positive aspects as well?

nooooo, please tell me your horror stories so I can write about that in the WSJ.

I see that you are a consumer regulation reporter so possibly those sorts of topics are not within your scope/mission.  Ok, maybe to frame it out for proper perspective pertaining to regulation of financial instruments or institutions, you could write a story including how Chase, Citi, Fannie and Freddie et al got too greedy for their own good and destroyed the entire global economy in the process.  Millions of people lost their jobs and their homes as a result of what may have legitimately been the biggest scam in the history of the world.  Nobody seems all that interested in regulating those people.

  
Bitcoin is consumer protection from the same people that were responsible for that entire thing, as anything that in any way chips away at their monopolies is beneficial to the consumer at this point.  A few nickels here and there scammed in bitcoin, relatively speaking, will never add up to what was lost/stolen in that debacle in either dollars or sheer scope of corruption.   Writing about the need for regulating bitcoin while the 800lb gorilla is still feasting at the buffet seems a bit off target.  If anything, bitcoin provides a bit of much-needed competition for those institutions, which are running roughshod over the entire economy.

Does anyone in their right mind think that these people running the show right now care about consumer protection?  These too big to fail banks destroyed the economy and nobody went to jail and nobody is wringing their hands in Congress over the need to reign them in.  To the contrary, they were handed billions in bailouts, without ramifications for the people behind it.  

HSBC was laundering drug money by the millions/billions for some of the worst cartels in the western hemisphere and undoubtedly have blood on their hands as a result of that activity.  Nobody went to jail for that either and, again, nobody who is in the position to do anything about it seems to care.

Meanwhile, big banks rack up record profits, with some of them having zero, ZERO, net negative trading sessions for large portions of the last year, as if that were in any possible without massive illegal manipulation; and the global economy is still in the waste-bin.  JP Morgan lost money zero days last year andmade in excess of 200 million on some days.  I'm sure nobody lost money to good ole JP while it was hoovering up the greenbacks, as if those dollars simply appeared from thin air and were not taken from consumers that got suckered into the hustle that is trading against high frequency algorithms, front-running and other insider trading schemes such as what is being seen in the FOREX markets right now.  

The entire market is so corrupt that it is nearly impossible for anyone but these people to make money in it, and they rack up millions by shearing the suckers that think otherwise.  Again, nothing but crickets on any portion of that.  

I'm going to go out on a very sturdy limb and bet that nobody goes to jail over this FOREX mess either, and these people were manipulating the entire global currency market.

Clearly bitcoin is a clear and present danger, while JP Morgan, HSBC and all the others, are totally playing by the rules and not trampling the consumers one bit, even though their recent accomplishments include:

1.  Crashing the housing market, taking the global economy down the tubes.
2.  Laundering millions/billions in drug money.
3.  Allegedly manipulating the entire global currency market.

Clearly bitcoin is the the number 1 threat to consumers in the financial sector.

It seems to me the banks would like to see it regulated it to kill off potential competition and not out of some altruistic desire to protect the consumer, and are therefore disingenuously pushing that agenda, which is getting pushed by their lobbyists and other avenues of influence to the front of the line.

I've been one of the people on this forum actually arguing for some reasonable regulation that does not hamper the growth of this industry, and have been getting shot up pretty good for advocating that, but this to me looks like a hatchet job in progress.  Maybe I'm wrong and, if so, possibly you can clarify what sort of research you're actually doing beyond soliciting horror stories from consumers to cite as support for what seems to be a predisposed position.

Pentax
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February 28, 2014, 01:17:21 PM
 #5

Maybe these people are better at expressing some of this than I am.

They might also be willing to talk to you directly about some of this.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-02-27-Letter-to-Senator-Manchin.pdf
Pentax
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February 28, 2014, 01:34:14 PM
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More.  I think these are relevant for you as they are speaking directly to the question of regulation:


http://avc.com/2014/02/a-letter-to-senator-manchin/
Pentax
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February 28, 2014, 01:37:21 PM
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Here's Manchin's letter asking for a ban, if you haven't seen it:

http://www.manchin.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=237cbd66-6a26-4870-9bcb-20177ae902b0
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February 28, 2014, 02:34:18 PM
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No it's not a good idea. See my post here about the Bernie Madoff Ponzi that cost investors 18 billion in a heavily regulated financial environment.

Regulations get written with influence from special interests so the little guy isn't effectively protected. Instead the market is distorted suppressing innovation and propping up crony capitalism. A true free market provides tougher regulation, because people are more careful when knowing they won't be bailed out.
stephaniewsj (OP)
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February 28, 2014, 02:36:37 PM
 #9

Thanks, apprecaite everyone's feedback and thoughtful insights thus far.

Stephanie Armour
The Wall Street Journal
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February 28, 2014, 03:40:08 PM
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-28/bitcoin-derivatives-sprout-as-regulators-play-catch-up.html
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February 28, 2014, 03:43:57 PM
 #11

I'm a reporter at The Wall Street Journal and I'm reaching out on this forum in hopes of finding sources who may have concerns when it comes to consumer protections for Bitcoin users -- I'm especially looking for people in the U.S. who may have lost money/felt scammed and are willing to share their story, as well as Bitcoin users who may want to comment on the recent push by some regulators who say there should be protections in place to safeguard consumers -- is this a good idea? Why or why not? Please feel free to email me directly at Stephanie.Armour@wsj.com.

In other words, I am here to take your comments out of context, publish them, and do whatever my editors tells me to do.
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February 28, 2014, 03:57:27 PM
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Something a bit lighter, but on the money nonetheless.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-if-bitcoin-wants-to-avoid-feds-they-should-normalize-fraud-like-the-big-boys/
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тσ ¢σιи σя иσт тσ ¢σιи?


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February 28, 2014, 04:03:05 PM
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Jerry Springer casting call. Good news means no news. Bad news means good copy.

Your paper is only good for lining a bird cage.

"I am not Dorian Nakamoto."
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February 28, 2014, 05:03:29 PM
 #14

I'm a reporter at The Wall Street Journal and I'm reaching out on this forum in hopes of finding sources who may have concerns when it comes to consumer protections for Bitcoin users -- I'm especially looking for people in the U.S. who may have lost money/felt scammed and are willing to share their story, as well as Bitcoin users who may want to comment on the recent push by some regulators who say there should be protections in place to safeguard consumers -- is this a good idea? Why or why not? Please feel free to email me directly at Stephanie.Armour@wsj.com.

In other words, I am here to take your comments out of context, publish them, and do whatever my editors tells me to do.


mmmhmm, I've got my doubts on intent here as well.

to get any sort of input it will take more than creating an account and throwing up a post.  if she'd like to have a dialogue it will mean spending time building some trust and looking at it from all angles.

I never say never, although right now I'm not seeing that as a likelihood.

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February 28, 2014, 05:15:25 PM
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Typical reporter who already has his story in mind and will cherry pick information to back up his thesis.

Was there ever a day when "journalists" looked at the facts in their entirety and then decided what story to write?
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February 28, 2014, 06:21:09 PM
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email sent.
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March 01, 2014, 12:57:13 PM
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http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/01/paypal-bitcoin-scam-ebay
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March 01, 2014, 01:03:58 PM
 #18

Greater transparency is needed with regard to where the Bitcoins are being held, how they are being stored, the security procedures being taken, and perhaps use collateral so that if something does go wrong customers can get their money back.

I am conducting a poll on this same subject, anyone interested please take a moment to vote.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=482452.msg5307384#msg5307384

My thread is on the subject of using collateral to prevent scams. As long as users can see how many Bitcoins are held in collateral then they can feel safe dealing with that company.

I'm sure there are many other technical solutions which won't require government intervention if we brainstorm.
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March 01, 2014, 01:24:14 PM
Last edit: March 01, 2014, 01:39:55 PM by Pentax
 #19

Greater transparency is needed with regard to where the Bitcoins are being held, how they are being stored, the security procedures being taken, and perhaps use collateral so that if something does go wrong customers can get their money back.

I am conducting a poll on this same subject, anyone interested please take a moment to vote.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=482452.msg5307384#msg5307384

My thread is on the subject of using collateral to prevent scams. As long as users can see how many Bitcoins are held in collateral then they can feel safe dealing with that company.

I'm sure there are many other technical solutions which won't require government intervention if we brainstorm.




Implement M of N's, or some variation.

it might slow liquidity, so people could opt in or out, based on their preference.


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