hjbuell (OP)
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Activity: 70
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Writer $0.10/word +
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February 27, 2014, 08:28:22 PM |
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Soon I'm going to be accepting Bitcoins and PayPal on my writing site.
As I work 100% from advance payment on people I don't know or have a working relationship with, I'm not at all concerned about being screwed on the payment.
Likewise I am not concerned about being screwed with Bitcoin payments, because once it's done, it's done.
My concern is that articles might be considered as 'digital content' by PayPal, or force me to go through the expense of sending certified mail around the world. To date the only time I've been screwed is by working off invoice payments (and then I never get paid - so we no longer take that road - everything is 100% up front).
Does anyone have thoughts on this? Can PayPal reverse a transaction for an article I've written and submitted if a client clams it's digital goods? Presumably this falls under the same umbrella digital game downloads, game cards, and ebooks fall under, but I'm not Amazon, so it is a concern.
I have a decent list of clients, but am making these updates to expand that list. Any thoughts or recommendations are appreciated.
Cheers,
H
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Being different is all it takes to make a difference. H. J. Buell Writer from $0.10 per word. https://hjbuell.com |
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Littleshop
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February 27, 2014, 09:01:32 PM |
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If you take paypal you take a risk. That risk is reduced but not eliminated by mailing with a fully tracked carrier which internationally is quite expensive. Convince your clients to use BTC by making it cheaper.
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hjbuell (OP)
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Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Writer $0.10/word +
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February 27, 2014, 09:56:49 PM |
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Yeah, that's where I'm headed. Just a PITA to get the more conservative bunch to line up and not throw lightning bolts when things aren't just as they expect them to be. I still have some who insist on paying monthly by checks, but meh. I'll just move towards a more BTC crowd, one hopes  Thanks for the input and wisdom. Writing feeds my family, and when I get screwed, empty plates don't do much to impress the wife or take care of my babies. Hence my caution and concern over the newest form of PayPal scams. Cheers, - H |
Being different is all it takes to make a difference. H. J. Buell Writer from $0.10 per word. https://hjbuell.com |
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dottom
Newbie
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Activity: 60
Merit: 0
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February 28, 2014, 09:07:08 PM |
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I've lost my 8th case in a row today with Paypal, losing $1200 total. This is about 10% of all my bitcoin transactions last 2 months.
As careful as I am with checking buyer is verified Paypal address, ebay account is aged (ignore the positive reviews you can't leave negative buyer reviews anymore), etc. you can still be scammed in 2 common ways:
- Buyer is the actual buyer and just wants to defraud you, so they will dispute a charge with Paypal or their credit card (or both)
- Buyer's account was hacked and the actual 'unauthorized' dispute is legitimate, but your virtual or physical goods were already shipped
Don't believe the Paypal seller protection. Even if you ship physical goods with delivery confirmation (I had 10 lines of evidence in several cases), Paypal will automatically screw the seller in many cases including any credit card dispute or anything with the word 'bitcon' in it (even if you ship hardware). Don't believe the Paypal press that they are supporters of bitcoin. What they are is risk-adverse and will look to screw the seller at every opportunity at any sign of a dispute no matter how flimsy the evidence.
I saw a buyer dispute 16 Paypal transactions (by checking the feedback history on ebay and contacting each one). We all received dispute notices the same day. Buyer won all of them. Yeah, right, buyer makes 16 separate ebay transactions with Q&A and delivery acknowledgment and it's us 16 sellers that are the scammer. Paypal doesn't care about sellers.
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wafdawg
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February 28, 2014, 11:23:35 PM |
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I've lost my 8th case in a row today with Paypal, losing $1200 total. This is about 10% of all my bitcoin transactions last 2 months.
As careful as I am with checking buyer is verified Paypal address, ebay account is aged (ignore the positive reviews you can't leave negative buyer reviews anymore), etc. you can still be scammed in 2 common ways:
- Buyer is the actual buyer and just wants to defraud you, so they will dispute a charge with Paypal or their credit card (or both)
- Buyer's account was hacked and the actual 'unauthorized' dispute is legitimate, but your virtual or physical goods were already shipped
Don't believe the Paypal seller protection. Even if you ship physical goods with delivery confirmation (I had 10 lines of evidence in several cases), Paypal will automatically screw the seller in many cases including any credit card dispute or anything with the word 'bitcon' in it (even if you ship hardware). Don't believe the Paypal press that they are supporters of bitcoin. What they are is risk-adverse and will look to screw the seller at every opportunity at any sign of a dispute no matter how flimsy the evidence.
I saw a buyer dispute 16 Paypal transactions (by checking the feedback history on ebay and contacting each one). We all received dispute notices the same day. Buyer won all of them. Yeah, right, buyer makes 16 separate ebay transactions with Q&A and delivery acknowledgment and it's us 16 sellers that are the scammer. Paypal doesn't care about sellers.
I've had this same issue. Paypal will not cover you for a digital item. You can send them evidence of the buyer's message to you with bitcoin address, blockchain info showing you sent it, doesn't matter. You will need to physically deliver something to the buyer. If the buyer claims the item is not as described, they will give the buyer the opportunity to mail it back to you. So pretty much you need to have an honest customer base. |
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morphtrust
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March 01, 2014, 03:13:23 AM |
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pretty sure I read somewhere that someone tried to get bitcoin from paying with paypal and then reversing charges cause they knew paypal does not have staff that can check blockchains and what not to verify it was sent, and because paypal was able to see the buyer was initiating a digital purpose they would not support their dispute, and the seller of the bitcoin could have actually not sent the bitcoin and scammed the buyer. so really it is not paypal screwing the seller or the buyer, they are just taking the easiest option that will not have them owing anyone. just something to be aware of. I have won cases where buyers bought goods then switched parts and claimed I sent them beat up old product and paypal said no way and sided with me. while another time someone paid for two shipments in two payments and had me combine them to save on shipping, then he claimed he did not get the package for the cheap payment (and add on for more parts) and when I got done submitting my tracking info for that he claimed he dd not get the other package and of course since only one package was sent I only had one tracking number, so he go that larger payment back because paypal would not let me use the same tracking number for both shipments. and they would not pick up a phone to track a package either even with a 1800 number and signed confirmation from the buyer, so there is that too (most of their CS was in india at the time, and I guess it actually costs a lot to call a US based 800 number unlike being free for us here.) all sorts of things to look at with paypal. so yeah, unless you are willing to lose some potential money I would try and convince people to switch to bitcoin lol, would be nice to starve preypal anyway.
oh and if you do insist (or they do) on using paypal, and want some tips on how to protect yourself message me, if you ship anything with tracking to them even a letter with the content in it (say CD) there is a way to verify it and if it crosses state lines and you use US mail it becomes a federal offense for them to lie about getting it, as that is tampering with US mail lol. lawyer-ing up in that situation can land them with prison time and most people will back down if they think you can prove you sent it, since they are committing perjury by lying under oath, which is what it would come down to.
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"Violence, is the last refuge of the incompetent."
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right."
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hostmaster
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March 01, 2014, 03:14:29 AM |
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if you use paypal about %10 you will lose about refunds and charge backs from my experience. And because smtms stolen cards used your head may go into trouble.
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E.exchanger
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March 15, 2014, 08:10:09 PM |
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yeah man definitely convince your customers to pay you through a non reversible method, Cuz in Paypal its always a risk of getting screwed so be safe. They fucked up my Paypal holding 2200$ in it because of a charge back worth 75$, and that was because the customer being dumb cuz when later i contacted the customer she said she was unable to recall at that time what and where she spent her 75$ agrhhhhh now i have all my 2200$ in paypal locked up for 6 months me getting banned from paypal permanently isn't that sucks a big time !!!!
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leopard2
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1014
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March 16, 2014, 12:31:38 AM |
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Hey this is good, Painpal is supporting Bitcoin that way If they were the good guys we wouldn't need it would we. |
Truth is the new hatespeech.
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Boris-The-Blade
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March 17, 2014, 04:58:55 PM |
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Soon I'm going to be accepting Bitcoins and PayPal on my writing site.
As I work 100% from advance payment on people I don't know or have a working relationship with, I'm not at all concerned about being screwed on the payment.
Likewise I am not concerned about being screwed with Bitcoin payments, because once it's done, it's done.
My concern is that articles might be considered as 'digital content' by PayPal, or force me to go through the expense of sending certified mail around the world. To date the only time I've been screwed is by working off invoice payments (and then I never get paid - so we no longer take that road - everything is 100% up front).
Does anyone have thoughts on this? Can PayPal reverse a transaction for an article I've written and submitted if a client clams it's digital goods? Presumably this falls under the same umbrella digital game downloads, game cards, and ebooks fall under, but I'm not Amazon, so it is a concern.
I have a decent list of clients, but am making these updates to expand that list. Any thoughts or recommendations are appreciated.
Cheers,
H
There are thousands of ways to part your cheeks and ram you when using Paypal. |
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hjbuell (OP)
Member
Offline
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Writer $0.10/word +
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March 22, 2014, 10:35:54 AM |
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There are thousands of ways to part your cheeks and ram you when using Paypal. Boris the Blade - driving home friends, foes, and anyone who may have had a little too much to drink. This is perhaps the funniest / most appropriate remark on PayPal, and your screen name just adds to it in so many ways. Thanks to everyone who has shared their stories, etc. I have adjusted my site accordingly. Cheers, HJ |
Being different is all it takes to make a difference. H. J. Buell Writer from $0.10 per word. https://hjbuell.com |
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Boris-The-Blade
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March 22, 2014, 01:07:32 PM |
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There are thousands of ways to part your cheeks and ram you when using Paypal. Boris the Blade - driving home friends, foes, and anyone who may have had a little too much to drink. This is perhaps the funniest / most appropriate remark on PayPal, and your screen name just adds to it in so many ways. Thanks to everyone who has shared their stories, etc. I have adjusted my site accordingly. Cheers, HJ Always a Pleasure  |
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