UK bitcoin users/ business owners - Please read this

[grifferz]

I don't understand why a UK company, in a free and democratic society, should not be allowed to conduct business in the order they see fit.

So you agree that a UK company (a bank) should be allowed to conduct their business in the order they see fit (refuse to accept any customer they like for any or no reason)? Or is that the point you are making?

[1715236854]

1715236854

[James-Cryptonomics]

So you agree that a UK company (a bank) should be allowed to conduct their business in the order they see fit (refuse to accept any customer they like for any or no reason)? Or is that the point you are making?

I think he was correcting my grammar - may be wrong though .

[techstorm3]

Im with Lloyds and Yorkshire bank, just dont mention the B word and youre ok. they'll come round eventually when they can see theres money to be made, it only takes one major retailer to start accepting BTC in the UK and bingo, bet they wont close Tescos bank account.



 

[studio1one]

You wouldn't, I agree. I don't really consider that strongly bitcoin related.

Your customers are buying hardware that does something related to bitcoins. I was more thinking along the lines of businesses that sell and trade bitcoins for GBP.

I also accept payment in BTC that ends up in GBP in my bank. I don't tell them that either

[Aswan]

I don't understand why a UK company, in a free and democratic society, should not be allowed to conduct business in the order they see fit.

So you agree that a UK company (a bank) should be allowed to conduct their business in the order they see fit (refuse to accept any customer they like for any or no reason)? Or is that the point you are making?

Yes I think so, even if it might sound strange, but it you want freedom for the people you can't force some of them to do a specific thing you want them to.

With bitcoin everyone can be his own bank. The bitcoin protocol does not discriminate against anyone and this is how it should be, but traditional banks are led by people that make decisions and if they decide not to do business with you, I think thats their choice.

[grifferz]

Right, which is why I haven't said anything about legally forcing them to or anything.

I'd rather find strategies for getting them to see that it can be in their interest, find banks that can be worked with, etc.

It is a real barrier to bitcoin business to not be able to have a bank account that your customers can easily deal with and have trust in.

[david64]

Try Euro-Pacific Bank. I'm not sure what their take on BTC business would be, but they are happy to facilitate transfers to and from exchanges.

[MrPiggles]

Right, which is why I haven't said anything about legally forcing them to or anything.

I'd rather find strategies for getting them to see that it can be in their interest, find banks that can be worked with, etc.

It is a real barrier to bitcoin business to not be able to have a bank account that your customers can easily deal with and have trust in.

Have you tried Metro bank?

My friend is Somalian and had a million and one issues with the whole funding terrorism thing when he got into some sort of mining deal with some Somalians back home and Metro were the only bank that'd touch him with a bargepole.

I think they're only in London though

[Aswan]

Right, which is why I haven't said anything about legally forcing them to or anything.

I'd rather find strategies for getting them to see that it can be in their interest, find banks that can be worked with, etc.

It is a real barrier to bitcoin business to not be able to have a bank account that your customers can easily deal with and have trust in.

Fidor Bank in Germany has Kraken and bitcoin.de as partners. Idk how easy it is to open an account with them for non-Germans, but I use my banka cocunt with them for bitcoin trading and never had a problem.

[grifferz]

Fidor Bank in Germany has Kraken and bitcoin.de as partners. Idk how easy it is to open an account with them for non-Germans, but I use my banka cocunt with them for bitcoin trading and never had a problem.

Sending money to a bank in Germany will cost UK people about £8 and take 1-2 days. It will also end up denominated in EUR so undergoing a currency exchange. There will also be less trust placed in a bank that's in Germany: "why is your bank in Munich if your company is in London?"

That's not that bad, but there's definitely a group of people who would rather deal in their own currency, locally: Sending funds to another UK bank ranges from instant to 30 mins and is free.

[xavier]

The UK is definitely not an open, free society. It's an oligopoly, run for the benefit of a small minority and the expense of everyone.

Don't kid yourself, as an individual you have basically no rights unless you have political connections or a lot of money. The banks don't care about you. Case in point: I have a perfect credit history and interest rates are 0%, so no cost to borrow money. However, I was declined even the ability to apply for a OVERDRAFT.

As stated , a small number are profiting at the expense of everybody right now. It's unacceptable but somehow unquestioned. If you want a chance at succeeding In th UK , your bet shot is to join the government.This is not what happens in a free society. This is what happens in 1980s Brazil, 1930s Germany, 1940-1990 Russia, 1950s China.

Basically, forget the banks. The whole system is run by and for the benefit of criminals. Bitcoin is the alternative

[Vortuarackne]

I dont know what you are trying to do but you could try speaking to GigaTux, he has a registered UK business trading BTCBTCBTC so may be able to offer advise... Unless you would be competing with him  

[James-Cryptonomics]

The UK is definitely not an open, free society. It's an oligopoly, run for the benefit of a small minority and the expense of everyone.

Don't kid yourself, as an individual you have basically no rights unless you have political connections or a lot of money. The banks don't care about you. Case in point: I have a perfect credit history and interest rates are 0%, so no cost to borrow money. However, I was declined even the ability to apply for a OVERDRAFT.

As stated , a small number are profiting at the expense of everybody right now. It's unacceptable but somehow unquestioned. If you want a chance at succeeding In th UK , your bet shot is to join the government.This is not what happens in a free society. This is what happens in 1980s Brazil, 1930s Germany, 1940-1990 Russia, 1950s China.

Basically, forget the banks. The whole system is run by and for the benefit of criminals. Bitcoin is the alternative

I don't disagree. I would rather re-frame from going down this particular road as I want to discuss solutions, not bitch about the system.

I will say this though the irony is that this problem rests with the 99% not the 1%. If we hadn't of been so apathetic towards politics in better times, we almost certainly would never have ended up in the position we find ourselves in today. We actually probably could still change 'the system'- but it would require people to actually get off their asses. A no-go I can assure you.

[ashleyconnor]

Right, which is why I haven't said anything about legally forcing them to or anything.

I'd rather find strategies for getting them to see that it can be in their interest, find banks that can be worked with, etc.

It is a real barrier to bitcoin business to not be able to have a bank account that your customers can easily deal with and have trust in.

Have you tried Metro bank?

My friend is Somalian and had a million and one issues with the whole funding terrorism thing when he got into some sort of mining deal with some Somalians back home and Metro were the only bank that'd touch him with a bargepole.

I think they're only in London though

Intersango banked with them. I'm pretty sure they've had their accounts closed.

Personally I'd approach the FSA and apply for a Money Transfer license even though technically you do not need it.

Next is to register with HMRC as a High Value Dealer. Let them know you're at risk for money laundering and ask how you can protect yourself.

Your business plan should emphasise how you plan to combat money laundering and fraud, for example by accepting payments that cannot be 'charged-back'. Then walk into the bank armed with all this and you might have a fighting chance.

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It's not just UK banks that don't want anything to do with Bitcoin. I approached Currency Fair with the hope of being able to accept international wires to exchange to Bitcoin and although they were receptive at first, an interview on BBC Radio 1 with regards to Silk Road ended that.

Now they explicitly forbid even personal transfers to Bitcoin exchanges in their FAQ.

[James-Cryptonomics]

I dont know what you are trying to do but you could try speaking to GigaTux, he has a registered UK business trading BTCBTCBTC so may be able to offer advise... Unless you would be competing with him  

OK. I want need a bank account in the UK that my customers can send money over too, so I can sell BTC. That simple really.

What I am trying to achieve here is more though. I would like to get UK bitcoin users to start discussing our predicament and get a little better organised. As original stated I'm not asking for much. I have no problems in doing the donkey work - just I will need limited support.

My current ideas are:

• send an open letter to a basket of MP's - asking when politicians are going to have an open debate about the subject like we have seen in other western countries.
• put more pressure on HMRC to confirm their classification of BTC
• start an e-democracy petition - which if recieves 100,000 signatures politicians will be forced to discuss.
• send an open-letter to the banks from a confederation of BTC business owners, demanding explanations towards there current stance on bitcoin

These are just preliminary ideas, but it would be useful to have a group of people who don't mind signing things, forwarding emails, discussing ideas etc.

[grifferz]

What I am trying to achieve here is more though. I would like to get UK bitcoin users to start discussing our predicament and get a little better organised.

Now that Scan are accepting bitcoins have you considered talking to them about their experience?

I know they are just using Bitpay at the moment, but if their acceptance of bitcoin is going well then perhaps they would be willing to co-sign a letter that asks UK banks to be more open to the idea that there is legitimate business that takes place using bitcoin.

[James-Cryptonomics]

Now that Scan are accepting bitcoins have you considered talking to them about their experience?

I know they are just using Bitpay at the moment, but if their acceptance of bitcoin is going well then perhaps they would be willing to co-sign a letter that asks UK banks to be more open to the idea that there is legitimate business that takes place using bitcoin.

Thanks for the information. I will be in contact with them. I am in touch with a few UK bitcoin businesses.

[madalo]

What service does you bitcoin service provide? Is it currently up and running?

What's the address if you don't mind me asking?

[xavier]

I dont know what you are trying to do but you could try speaking to GigaTux, he has a registered UK business trading BTCBTCBTC so may be able to offer advise... Unless you would be competing with him  

OK. I want need a bank account in the UK that my customers can send money over too, so I can sell BTC. That simple really.

What I am trying to achieve here is more though. I would like to get UK bitcoin users to start discussing our predicament and get a little better organised. As original stated I'm not asking for much. I have no problems in doing the donkey work - just I will need limited support.

My current ideas are:

• send an open letter to a basket of MP's - asking when politicians are going to have an open debate about the subject like we have seen in other western countries.
• put more pressure on HMRC to confirm their classification of BTC
• start an e-democracy petition - which if recieves 100,000 signatures politicians will be forced to discuss.
• send an open-letter to the banks from a confederation of BTC business owners, demanding explanations towards there current stance on bitcoin

These are just preliminary ideas, but it would be useful to have a group of people who don't mind signing things, forwarding emails, discussing ideas etc.

HI,

I appreciate you're looking for practical solutions.

Let me make a few points though:

(1) All UK banks are extensions of the government, even if they are not directly owned by the government. AT some point then, even if not immediately, they will have to accept the government's line on bitcoin.

(2) For this reason, I think your best approach is to start at the government level not the bank level

(3) I would follow up by suggesting you meet the bitcoin group of supporters, based in London. There is a meetup group called Bitcoin London, I would suggest maybe talking to them in order to organize a collective effort.

(4) Finally - I would say that it will require huge action to get a UK bank to operate with a bitcoin exchange . Why ? Because it needs change at the government level, and that is not forthcoming right now.

Im not saying its impossible, but it is going to be quite a task.

Honestly, if I ws you ? Just buy bitcoin and hold.  The time will come when the government is forced to take bitcoin seriously. Until then, it will continue to be hard to operate a bitcoin-related venture in the UK.


PS. in the interm, I appreciate that means it's perhaps more difficult than it needs to be to acquire bitcoins. However, at least you can (still) buy them.

[DoctorOz]

Take it offshore, and do yourself a favour!