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Author Topic: Fees in the future in correlation to BTC Price?  (Read 39 times)
Alvaroszi
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August 19, 2018, 01:15:53 AM
 #1

Hi everybody!  Grin Grin Grin

Today I signed up in the forum, and as my first question I'd like to ask something that's been bugging me for a certain amount of time.

First of all, I'd like to clarify, I bought my first BTC quantity around August last year at a price of ~$3000, but it wasn't until the massive bull run was over that I began to read more about how Bitcoin works; because of this I'm not very knowledgeable about cryptocurrencies but as a college student CompE I'm more than willing to spend massive amounts of time learning about cryptocurrencies. So please, if any of the statements/assumptions that I make are wrong please correct me.

Now, I constantly hear stuff like "Bitcoin will reach $100K" or "Bitcoin will reach $1Million", and I'm not going to be the one to say that it is impossible, but I am certainly skeptic about it being able to reach let's say $1Million until somebody clears this issue for me.

Now, here we have the first Bitcoin transaction for a certain good (Lazlo's Bitcoin pizzas) https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/a1075db55d416d3ca199f55b6084e2115b9345e16c5cf302fc80e9d5fbf5d48d .The satoshi/B fee here is 4,191.363.

Now, here we have a transaction that a friend of mine made a couple of days ago.
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/f847d8b7014906a355eb4fe9996a01746341c65ebe885382a437a2771b4f0e04 .The satoshi/B fee here is 7.618.

In a hypothetical future in which Bitcoin is $1million, if I want to send $5 to a friend in Bitcoin, I would be sending 500 satoshi worth of BTC to my friend, but I would be paying some miner fees, which being optimistic, the smallest on-chain value I can have I guess is 1 satoshi which would be worth $0.01.

So now we would be having to use layer 2 solutions like Lightning which allow you to have sub-satoshi fees, but opening channels also costs BTC which on-chain would be at least 1 cent.

So my questions are:
1. Can a fee have a satoshi/B value below 1?
2. Can a fee have a satoshi/B value equal to 0?
3. What is the smallest size (if there is any) in bytes that a Bitcoin transaction can be?
4. Since block rewards decrease over time, is it possible to sustain a system in which miners and low on-chain fees (by low I mean less than $0.01) can coexist with a Bitcoin valued at $1 million?

If you took time to read all of this, thank you. I hope everyone has a great summer (the little of it that is left) and thank you in anticipation for your answers!
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August 19, 2018, 04:10:29 AM
 #2

1. Can a fee have a satoshi/B value below 1?
2. Can a fee have a satoshi/B value equal to 0?
3. What is the smallest size (if there is any) in bytes that a Bitcoin transaction can be?
4. Since block rewards decrease over time, is it possible to sustain a system in which miners and low on-chain fees (by low I mean less than $0.01) can coexist with a Bitcoin valued at $1 million?
You can set your fee below 1 sat/byte if your wallet lets you customize your fee. Here's one of my recent bitcoin transaction that had a 0.5 satoshi/byte from greenaddress.

A transaction can have a miner fee equal to 0 but it's unlikely to get confirmed.

The smallest transaction size is probably somewhere between 220 - 230 bytes this is only from my experience. I think I had a Bitcoin transaction below 200 bytes but I can't find the transaction.

Yes they can coexist because there are solutions being made once these type of problems comes up in the future.

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Pearls Before Swine
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August 19, 2018, 05:24:21 AM
 #3

You can set your fee below 1 sat/byte if your wallet lets you customize your fee.
I did not know that and I thank you for that answer.  For a long time I had the same question as op does.  I assumed that if 1 satoshi reached a very high value that it would limit bitcoin's practical use.  I had heard you could send coins with zero fees but I had also assumed that the transaction would never get confirmed.

Now, I constantly hear stuff like "Bitcoin will reach $100K" or "Bitcoin will reach $1Million", and I'm not going to be the one to say that it is impossible, but I am certainly skeptic about it being able to reach let's say $1Million until somebody clears this issue for me.
And you should keep that skepticism about you, because you will hear a lot of claims like that from people who are speaking out of their rectums.  They want bitcoin to be at $1 million, but that doesn't mean it is going to happen.  This is a bitcoin forum and there are a lot of people who have enormous emotional investment in bitcoin and I daresay many of them are delusional.
davis196
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August 19, 2018, 05:31:14 AM
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You can set your fee below 1 sat/byte if your wallet lets you customize your fee.
I did not know that and I thank you for that answer.  For a long time I had the same question as op does.  I assumed that if 1 satoshi reached a very high value that it would limit bitcoin's practical use.  I had heard you could send coins with zero fees but I had also assumed that the transaction would never get confirmed.

Now, I constantly hear stuff like "Bitcoin will reach $100K" or "Bitcoin will reach $1Million", and I'm not going to be the one to say that it is impossible, but I am certainly skeptic about it being able to reach let's say $1Million until somebody clears this issue for me.
And you should keep that skepticism about you, because you will hear a lot of claims like that from people who are speaking out of their rectums.  They want bitcoin to be at $1 million, but that doesn't mean it is going to happen.  This is a bitcoin forum and there are a lot of people who have enormous emotional investment in bitcoin and I daresay many of them are delusional.

I haven't seen people,who are expecting a 100K or 1 million USD bitcoin price.I guess that the amount of delusional people has decreased a lot.The OP has some interesting questions.I beilieved that it was possible to have a transaction with 0 fees that is getting confirmed(maybe after a few days of waiting).I guess that now the blockchain is stuck with too many transactions and it's impossible for 0 fee transactions to get confirmed.

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August 19, 2018, 05:38:32 AM
 #5

With ever growing demand of crypto currencies surely there will be modification and upgrades according to the convenience of public because they are the soul part here who invest and use these.

You can already transact with lowest 1 satoshi per transaction and that will just define whether your transaction will get faster or slower.

If you want to get your transaction mined by next block then you need to put higher fees and if you are not in hurry then leave it with the lowest fees. Thats how it works and you can set your own fees.


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August 19, 2018, 05:47:02 AM
 #6


1. Can a fee have a satoshi/B value below 1?
2. Can a fee have a satoshi/B value equal to 0?
3. What is the smallest size (if there is any) in bytes that a Bitcoin transaction can be?
4. Since block rewards decrease over time, is it possible to sustain a system in which miners and low on-chain fees (by low I mean less than $0.01) can coexist with a Bitcoin valued at $1 million?


1. Yes the fee of a BTC transaction can go below 1 sat per byte. Example : If you have a transaction of 200 bytes and you pay 100 satoshis for thw whole transaction that will mean that you have paid 0.5 sat per byte as the transaction fee.

2. Yes the fee can be equal to 0 but the probability for it to never be mined is very high.

3. Well I had googled it and found the best answer here :
    
Quote
There is no minimum size restraint on blocks and transactions. However, due to the nature of blocks and transactions, there is a practical minimum.

The smallest transaction I can think of is 61 bytes. It is a transaction that spends an OP_TRUE anyonecanspend output and creates 1 OP_TRUE anyonecanspend output. The smallest block I can think of is 146 bytes. This is the 61 byte small transaction + 4 bytes for block height in that transaction + 80 byte block header + 1 byte for transaction count.

4. According to me it might be possible that BTC will sustain the system when it reaches $1 million. Although I am weak at mathematics I think that the numbers would add up just right.














 

 

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hugeblack
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August 19, 2018, 11:56:37 AM
Merited by Alvaroszi (1)
 #7

Quick answer: Do not look at the price and compare it with fees.
Bitcoin fees are inputs and outputs governed by a general rule. "I do not want to go into details."
Code:
In x 148 + Out x 34 + 10
Therefore, In/Output that determines the fees, not the price.
For example:

Case 1: Converting $ 1 million "156.04BTC" from one address "USA" to another address "China" will be less than $ 1 "fees."
Case 2: Converting $ 100 from my faucet to my address will be charged higher than $ 10 due to a large number of inputs.
 
I think this is the answer to your first question.

4. Since block rewards decrease over time, is it possible to sustain a system in which miners and low on-chain fees (by low I mean less than $0.01) can coexist with a Bitcoin valued at $1 million?
Yes, mining costs will reduce.

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