Bitcoin Forum
December 14, 2017, 10:25:59 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: What if BTC-e shuts down?  (Read 1874 times)
StarfishPrime
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 359


View Profile
February 28, 2014, 05:22:26 PM
 #21

BTC-e is far less transparent than Mt.Gox ever was. The whole enterprise is a giant red flag on almost every level.

Some of us have watched in amazement as they've grown to the current trading volumes. Probably only due to lack of legitimate alternatives.

                         
    ¦                     
  ¦    ¦¦¦               
¦¦  ¦¦¦¦                 
                             ¦¦  ¦¦¦¦
                          ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦                     
                         ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
                        ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
                        ¦¦¦¦¦¦
                  ¦¦¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦
                   ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦

                    ¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦
                    ¦¦    ¦¦¦¦
                    ¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦
                   ¦¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦
                ¦¦¦¦    ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
             ¦¦¦¦¦    ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
          ¦¦¦¦¦       ¦  ¦   ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
        ¦¦¦¦         ¦        ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
     ¦¦¦¦          ¦      ¦    ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
    ¦¦¦         ¦¦         ¦   ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
   ¦¦        ¦¦         ¦¦  ¦   ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
  ¦¦       ¦          ¦ ¦¦   ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
 ¦¦¦     ¦¦          ¦   ¦    ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦     ¦          ¦      ¦   ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦    ¦        ¦¦         ¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦   ¦¦     ¦¦         ¦   ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦   ¦     ¦¦         ¦¦¦   ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
 ¦¦   ¦¦    ¦        ¦    ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
 ¦¦    ¦   ¦        ¦¦    ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
  ¦¦    ¦  ¦¦       ¦     ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
   ¦¦    ¦  ¦      ¦      ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
    ¦¦¦   ¦ ¦¦     ¦¦     ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
     ¦¦¦   ¦ ¦¦     ¦¦    ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
       ¦¦¦¦  ¦ ¦¦    ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
          ¦¦¦¦¦¦  ¦¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
             ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
                        ¦¦

.
TorCoin.....
¦
¦
¦
¦
  Fully Anonymous TOR-integrated Crypto
               ¦ Windows     ¦ Linux     ¦ GitHub     ¦ macOS
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
.
   ANN THREAD
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
[/center]
1513247159
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513247159

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513247159
Reply with quote  #2

1513247159
Report to moderator
1513247159
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513247159

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513247159
Reply with quote  #2

1513247159
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1513247159
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1513247159

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1513247159
Reply with quote  #2

1513247159
Report to moderator
V4Vendettas
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294



View Profile
February 28, 2014, 05:23:58 PM
 #22

As one of those Goxxed please please learn from our mistakes. You don't have to learn the hard way.

sinx13
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 26

trading


View Profile
February 28, 2014, 05:24:51 PM
 #23

What will happen to the bitcoin price of BTC-e shuts down without a warning, and run with your coins?

Who are you going to sue?
Nobody knows which individuals or corporation is behind that russian site.

The company(s) are known and registered at cyprus & england.
To know the owners will give you nothing except the company is a construct which
involves personal capital. Thats the sense to have a company: Its a legal entity.

But i agree: We need more transparency.
Even i do not care who operates/own the company who own btc-e.
I just need to know the company runs professional.

Hopefully we have in the near future a kind of audit - that would for example something
the bitcoin foundation would be good for. The exchanges pay the foundation a fee, they
make audits of the exchanges and control the hot/cold wallets and all.

gollum
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434


In Hashrate We Trust!


View Profile
February 28, 2014, 05:35:57 PM
 #24

Fool Me Once (MtGox) - Shame on You
Fool Me Twice (BTC-e) - Shame on Me
StarfishPrime
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 359


View Profile
February 28, 2014, 05:39:53 PM
 #25

Fool Me Once (MtGox) - Shame on You
Fool Me Twice (BTC-e) - Shame on Me

+100

                         
    ¦                     
  ¦    ¦¦¦               
¦¦  ¦¦¦¦                 
                             ¦¦  ¦¦¦¦
                          ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦                     
                         ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
                        ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
                        ¦¦¦¦¦¦
                  ¦¦¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦
                   ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦

                    ¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦
                    ¦¦    ¦¦¦¦
                    ¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦
                   ¦¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦
                ¦¦¦¦    ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
             ¦¦¦¦¦    ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
          ¦¦¦¦¦       ¦  ¦   ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
        ¦¦¦¦         ¦        ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
     ¦¦¦¦          ¦      ¦    ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
    ¦¦¦         ¦¦         ¦   ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
   ¦¦        ¦¦         ¦¦  ¦   ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
  ¦¦       ¦          ¦ ¦¦   ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
 ¦¦¦     ¦¦          ¦   ¦    ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦     ¦          ¦      ¦   ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦    ¦        ¦¦         ¦¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦   ¦¦     ¦¦         ¦   ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
¦¦¦   ¦     ¦¦         ¦¦¦   ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
 ¦¦   ¦¦    ¦        ¦    ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
 ¦¦    ¦   ¦        ¦¦    ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
  ¦¦    ¦  ¦¦       ¦     ¦  ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
   ¦¦    ¦  ¦      ¦      ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
    ¦¦¦   ¦ ¦¦     ¦¦     ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
     ¦¦¦   ¦ ¦¦     ¦¦    ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
       ¦¦¦¦  ¦ ¦¦    ¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
          ¦¦¦¦¦¦  ¦¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
             ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦
                        ¦¦

.
TorCoin.....
¦
¦
¦
¦
  Fully Anonymous TOR-integrated Crypto
               ¦ Windows     ¦ Linux     ¦ GitHub     ¦ macOS
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
.
   ANN THREAD
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
[/center]
Jeronimus
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 97


View Profile
February 28, 2014, 11:49:14 PM
 #26

So we knew the owner of MtGox and his company's location exactly with all addresses etc.

Did that stop Karpeles from goxxxing us?

No.

Most likely, it certainly did not stop the US gov from pressuring Mark to succumb and hand over the BTC, then later desperately operating a fractional reserve, doing all kinds of shady things to get back some funds so the fractional reserve has enough of a fraction to keep operating.


Bitstamp we also know a few bits of the CEO and the location. But it did not stop them from freezing withdrawals some time ago, leaving everyone hanging in there without additional info.

Remember when the bitstamp price shoot over MtGox price for some time? Yep... that was exactly back then. Just like MtGox delaying withdrawals having an effect on the BTC price on gox, so did the maneuver Stamp pulled have an effect on the BTC price on Stamp, to the point where people trusted goxBTC/USD more than stampBTC/USD

Shortly after that, stamp pulled another two maneuvers, where the price would crash down, their service being unavailable to sell.
Again shortly after, when the price would rocket back up, they AGAIN had their service unavailable.

They got people to panic sell once they reopened, and later when it shoot up again, they got them to panic buy, after not allowing them to sell at the top, neither buy at the bottom, as they simply closed the service, most likely just pretending it was a DDoS

This to me screams manipulation.

If BTC-e can stand up working under DDoS, why cannot bistamp which has even more funds/volume?



So what do we learn of the gox?

In the bitcoin world, where any exchange at any time can claim they got "hacked" or some criminal somehow got hold of their keys to the cold storage, having the info of the owners + location of the exchange, won't protect you from them dry looting you.

It certainly won't protect the exchange from the US gov or other gov dry looting it.


So what exactly does protect us?

The only thing that protects us is the exchanges making way more money having their business run perfectly long term, than just running with the money.

This was in particular true for gox which had 80-90% of the market back then and has ever since looked like they are trying to ruin their own business deliberately.
This can only mean two things. Either the US gov stole their coins or they were paid assassins to harm BTC or a mix of the two.

If the exchanges wanted to make something on top, they could abuse the exchange powers and trade on their own behalf at zero fees or do some shady arbitrage by conspiring with another exchange or creating a second exchange they would pretend they are not related to.

So there is basically ZERO motive for the exchange to run with your money as they can extract way more of you using other means, including just operating the exchange in a honorable way.



BTC-e is swimming in money and bitcoins with very high volumes in the past. They certainly made back all the bitcoins and USD stored on the exchange already twice.
Why would they want to run with the money when they can profit much more from just operating the exchange properly?

The only reason we might lose our deposits would be for some governments to track them and shut them down which is what could happen to any other exchange as well. In fact, it is more likely to happen to any other exchange rather than btc-e as they can reopen being anonymous, while others will be shut for good.

edit: OR, as i mentioned above, the operators being motivated to harm BTC.

Satoshi nakamoto decided to remain anonymous for good reasons as well, not because he was shy of the public.



Is any exchange 100% safe?

NO exchange is 100% safe.

Especially not since no exchange EXCEPT btc-e has made a clear statement that they are NOT operating a fractional reserve and that all funds deposited in the exchange are fully backed up by real BTC/USD.

No audits made yet, even though audits won't protect us from what Karpeles pulled as they can simply claim they were hacked or scammed or lost their key or US gov took em and they are not allowed to talk etc.

The audits if frequent however, will certainly make it harder to pull such stunts in a believable way.


The ONLY safe storage for your coins is a cold wallet you created offline and know how to safely extract funds of into your hot wallet you use to buy stuff with.
One of the best devices coming out to make this easy for average joe to handle is the TREZOR device (at least as long as they stay true to their specifications)


So is everyone having their BTC on an exchange an idiot?

No, they are not. The majority is well aware of the high risks, which however comes with high rewards too if you know what you are doing. It's a calculated risk, and many have already quadruplet their initial investment, allowing them to pull out the initial investment while having 3x the initial investment still on the exchange.

While they are not doing it for altruistic reasons, this actually helps BTC gain value, allowing people to quickly interchange their BTC for FIAT if they choose to, as well as other businesses that do not want to keep BTC only, as it is not as widely accepted at the moment as needed for such businesses to operate solely on BTC.

Even the speculation itself gives BTC value as people are interested in investing in BTC just for that gamble that also includes some social factor.

Without the speculators, noone would be able to interchange BTC for USD/EUR/etc. Holders certainly do not do exchanges. Simply investing and holding the BTC does not work if noone sells.

So the speculators do in fact help this ecosystem, even if it is greed that propels their actions in most cases.

The speculators are shoving their own grave however, since their doings help make BTC more widely accepted, and soon enough, no one will need to interchange BTC for FIAT anymore, the price stabilizing in the process and there not being enough profit to be made for speculators anymore.
The exchanges will then operate on their own behalf and do their own trades, as only at zero fees exchanging BTC/USD will grant some profits still.


to finalize...

So reading the above you understand why some risk takers that are important for the BTC ecosystem choose to put their money into less than safe exchanges.

The only thing those speculators can do, is to guesstimate the risks of the exchanges available to them. It certainly would not be a good thing if all speculators had their funds in just one exchange that could gox us.
There should be at least 5-10 medium to large sized exchanges to make sure that when one goes down, not everything is lost.

It turns out, it is a good thing that not everyone trusts the same exchange.

..the end

EuroCoiner
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 9


View Profile
March 01, 2014, 12:31:31 AM
 #27

Kraken.

Why Kraken? They will not say which countries they offer service in. Web site says most US states have no service, many countries have no service, also Germany.

Also verifaction takes week or more. Slow for questionable service.
waqas
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378



View Profile
March 09, 2014, 02:56:06 PM
 #28

Kraken.

Why Kraken? They will not say which countries they offer service in. Web site says most US states have no service, many countries have no service, also Germany.

Also verifaction takes week or more. Slow for questionable service.
Now they are working fast and verification need just 3 to 5 days and more countries added

sumantso
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050



View Profile
March 09, 2014, 03:25:40 PM
 #29

BTC-e is far less transparent than Mt.Gox ever was. The whole enterprise is a giant red flag on almost every level.

Some of us have watched in amazement as they've grown to the current trading volumes. Probably only due to lack of legitimate alternatives.

Mainly because it has been reliable. It hardly goes down, doesn't lag and despite the support being super slow, coins eventually turn up.

I keep the minimum to trade there. You have to keep fiat anyway - its not worth withdrawing and depositing to trade.

cozytrade
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 352



View Profile
March 09, 2014, 03:34:41 PM
 #30

The company(s) are known and registered at cyprus & england.

Do you mean Mayzus? I thought it is a partner of btc-e but nothing to do with responsibility.


                   ▄▄▄▄▄
            ▄▄███████████████▄▄
         ▄███████████████████████▄
       ▄██████████████████▀ ▀███████▄
     ▄██████████████████▀    ▄████████
    ██████████████████▀    ▄███████████▄
   ██████████████████    ▄██████████████
  ████████████████ ▀██▄   ▀██████████████
  ███████████████▄   ▀██▄   ▀████████████
 ▐████████████▀ ▀██▄   ▀██▄   ███████████▌
 ▐███████████▄    ▀██▄   ▀██▄████████████▌
 ▐█████████████▄    ▀██▄ ▄███████████████▌
  ▀██████████████▄    ▀██████████████████
   █████████████▀    ▄██████████████████
    ▀█████████▀    ▄███████████████████
      ███████▄   ▄███████████████████
        ███████▄███████████████████
          ▀▀████████████████████▀
               ▀███████████▀

..ETHLend..1
[ Slack ] [ Telegram ] [ Twitter ]
▬▬ [ Bounty ] [ Facebook ] ▬▬
[ DAPP Thread ] [ ICO Thread ]
xb0x
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 181


Better don't say if you don't know!


View Profile
March 09, 2014, 03:53:49 PM
 #31

Then many people are gonna get Bankrupted or say Bitcoinrupted Tongue
EuroCoiner
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 9


View Profile
March 13, 2014, 11:38:53 AM
 #32

Kraken still missing list of accepted countries. FAQ still say "most US states are like CA", so pre-verifaction only.

Documents required for verifaction also missing from FAQ.
ymer
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280


View Profile
March 13, 2014, 07:35:35 PM
 #33

Thanks for the paranoia, I just sold half my fiat that I have on BTCe for PPC and sent to cold storage.

g27wr
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 211


I like guns.


View Profile
March 13, 2014, 07:53:36 PM
 #34

People are reporting btc-e is down and they can't access accounts even if they're able to get to the site. Maybe you'll find the answer to your question soon, OP.

EuroCoiner
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 9


View Profile
March 14, 2014, 07:54:21 AM
 #35

People are reporting btc-e is down and they can't access accounts even if they're able to get to the site. Maybe you'll find the answer to your question soon, OP.

Works for me and the site shoutbox is not filled with complaints.
gollum
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434


In Hashrate We Trust!


View Profile
March 14, 2014, 03:17:48 PM
 #36

BTC-e is working, and it will work.

Until it doesnt... it will be to late to cash out your money or coins at that stage.
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!