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Author Topic: Resurrection of Mt.Gox  (Read 6383 times)
rikkejohn
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February 28, 2014, 11:24:30 PM
 #41

Nice idea, but given the state of play, and the time Karpeles has had since shutting down, I would be surprised if there is a real database of customers.

Assume Karpeles has deleted records, then surely it would take experts to recover them. Which authority would arrange the recovery?

Karpeles has shown that he is a liar, fraudster with a sociopathic personality disorder. Given that, and assuming it is technically possible, I see no reason why he would not have spent a few days getting rid of people. The unconfirmed accounts would be the easiest.

I don't mind being wrong, and would be interested if someone could explain why it would be impossible for him to have done that.

I don't think anything can stop him doing that if he decides to.

According what I have heard about Mark he is trusted and genuine person.
As fact he is not hiding now and still open to public.
The only way for him to save the face and not go to jail is: to save user database and to help the community to create a new gox.com by create the list of shareholders
and provide access for the new CEO to domains mtgox.com, gox.com and to the funds which are left on MtGox accounts.


"Mark" is not trustworthy, he is a liar, thief and fraud. Why you would think differently is frankly staggering.

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shadyz
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February 28, 2014, 11:25:23 PM
 #42

If 1 goxcoin (on the exchange) gets the same of who had 500 gox dollars you can count me in.

I would rather have a shares in a crappy company than have nothing.
I disagree. Dollars are dollars ,goxbtc is traded at the price which the buyers are willing to pay for it.

Is an imaginary lost dollar worth more than an imaginary lost Btc considering they are both lost and Imaginary ?

That is your subjective opinion.

Dollars are not imaginary, the only thing that is imaginary and non-fungible is bitcoin ,especially when left on an exchange, so yes, you are 100% wrong when implying that suddenly we should fix the market price of goxbtc to be 5x the price of the lost usd. Very very very wrong. And very greedy.
ilpirata79
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February 28, 2014, 11:27:49 PM
 #43

That is your subjective opinion.

Dollars are not imaginary, the only thing that is imaginary and non-fungible is bitcoin ,especially when left on an exchange, so yes, you are 100% wrong when implying that suddenly we should fix the market price of goxbtc to be 5x the price of the lost usd. Very very very wrong. And very greedy.

Once you have sent a dollar to Mtgox is not a dollar anymore: it is a gox dollar.
In the same way, when you send a bitcoin to mtgox, it is not a bitcoin anymore: it is a gox bitcoin.

You can off course discuss about the value: 1 gox dollar is 1 dollar? I don't think so.
1 gox btc is 1 btc. I don't think so as well.  How many gox dollars is 1 gox btc worth? I don't know.

Even if mtgox has more dollar assets than bitcoin assets, that does not mean it has to pay only customers with a usd balance. It has to pay its creditors, following what the law says...

Best regards,
ilpirata79
V4Vendettas
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February 28, 2014, 11:33:05 PM
 #44

If 1 goxcoin (on the exchange) gets the same of who had 500 gox dollars you can count me in.

I would rather have a shares in a crappy company than have nothing.
I disagree. Dollars are dollars ,goxbtc is traded at the price which the buyers are willing to pay for it.

Is an imaginary lost dollar worth more than an imaginary lost Btc considering they are both lost and Imaginary ?

That is your subjective opinion.

Dollars are not imaginary, the only thing that is imaginary and non-fungible is bitcoin ,especially when left on an exchange, so yes, you are 100% wrong when implying that suddenly we should fix the market price of goxbtc to be 5x the price of the lost usd. Very very very wrong. And very greedy.

You sold at $100 right ?

I still don't see how a dollar that does not exist is not imaginary. You do understand that from my perspective you are the greedy one attempting to devalue the worth of my something that does not exist over you non-existent.   Anyway a pointless exercise in debate no doubt as we don't have a clue if its is really on the cards yet. Feel free to continue your debate with others who have the time for it.

conbos
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February 28, 2014, 11:38:05 PM
 #45

I honestly don't known how anybody can manage to move this plan forward. There are folks that loose everything in MTGox. Now, they are organizing, some of them want to initiate legal actions in Japan and nobody of the visible faces of BTC ecosystem has made any statement that could help to organize it in this direction.
Being said that, I really hope to be wrong and that your plan can help people to recover (part of) their funds

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thelema93
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February 28, 2014, 11:38:52 PM
 #46

I think they already are considering a plan like this. It is mtgox however that should take the initiative and, in doing that, it should ask for the creditors approval (all of us).

Best regards,
ilpirata79



It simply takes Gox to mail its customers the proposition and ask for a vote.

Thing is what happens to those not wanting to play along and how is this fair on them. Granted nothing is fair in this whole mess but still. What kind of % would they need to pass this and are there any laws on it?

I'll be asking my Japanese Lawyer exactly that today... i will post back here
V4Vendettas
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February 28, 2014, 11:43:22 PM
 #47

In this way is as tough as we bought Mtgox for about 450 million dollars...
Is that a fair price? To be the case it should generate at least 4-5% of that amount in profit every year, which is 22,5 million dollars. Is that the case?

Best regards,
ilpirata79

The answer is (I think anyway) yes /no/maybe.

10k BTC per month in trading fee's and I dug this up from other threads so don't shoot me for it.

Due to the Damage to the brand we can assume its not going to have anythign like the trade it used to have lolz?

If it did and that's a massive IF 120k btc a year. So yes no maybe. but better than a kick in the nuts.

V4Vendettas
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February 28, 2014, 11:46:13 PM
 #48

I think they already are considering a plan like this. It is mtgox however that should take the initiative and, in doing that, it should ask for the creditors approval (all of us).

Best regards,
ilpirata79



It simply takes Gox to mail its customers the proposition and ask for a vote.

Thing is what happens to those not wanting to play along and how is this fair on them. Granted nothing is fair in this whole mess but still. What kind of % would they need to pass this and are there any laws on it?

I'll be asking my Japanese Lawyer exactly that today... i will post back here

and your a hero for it bro again thank you for sharing information (that cost you) with the community.

Hannan
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February 28, 2014, 11:59:38 PM
 #49

I actually loved the plan, if they really innocent they should do something like that
However I don't get the BTC in cold storage are 'actually stolen' by 'hackers'

V4Vendettas
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March 01, 2014, 12:02:08 AM
 #50

I actually loved the plan, if they really innocent they should do something like that
However I don't get the BTC in cold storage are 'actually stolen' by 'hackers'

I think what makes it really hard when trying to work out what is possible and what is not is 1 particular variable above all others.

Marks competence.

Its throwing a lot of logical debate all over the place and giving otherwise crazy conspiracy theory's time in the sun.


Sorry for cross post but yes bro I think we are all either thinking its bullshit or are gobsmacked by mark.

shadyz
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March 01, 2014, 12:23:54 AM
 #51

If 1 goxcoin (on the exchange) gets the same of who had 500 gox dollars you can count me in.

I would rather have a shares in a crappy company than have nothing.
I disagree. Dollars are dollars ,goxbtc is traded at the price which the buyers are willing to pay for it.

Is an imaginary lost dollar worth more than an imaginary lost Btc considering they are both lost and Imaginary ?

That is your subjective opinion.

Dollars are not imaginary, the only thing that is imaginary and non-fungible is bitcoin ,especially when left on an exchange, so yes, you are 100% wrong when implying that suddenly we should fix the market price of goxbtc to be 5x the price of the lost usd. Very very very wrong. And very greedy.

You sold at $100 right ?

I still don't see how a dollar that does not exist is not imaginary. You do understand that from my perspective you are the greedy one attempting to devalue the worth of my something that does not exist over you non-existent.   Anyway a pointless exercise in debate no doubt as we don't have a clue if its is really on the cards yet. Feel free to continue your debate with others who have the time for it.

I don't think there is a place for debate about anything, just look up the meaning of a (bitcoin) exchange. The goxbtc have risk in them different from the bitcoins on any other exchange ,that's why the price differs from exchange to exchange. I don't want to devalue anything, the market says the price of a goxbtc was at 132.5$ at the time the exchange stopped, let the exchange open and the bid will proceed in bidding the price of the bitcoins.

To me ,if only and mostly the bitcoins are lost ,they should be turned into basically goxshares ,and when you want to liquidate,  it will be what the market value for those is at the time. Change the senior management of gox and continue the good work.

You and others in this thread have proposed devaluing dollars, when dollars aren't the commodity being traded on that exchange ,it is the bitcoins that have the fluctuating price in dollars. Dollars are the benchmark, the value of the dollar does not change on this exchange ,it only changes on the forex markets and is defined by the forex markets.
V4Vendettas
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March 01, 2014, 12:31:36 AM
 #52

@shadyz

Not trying to annoy you honestly but I didn't read what you posted maybe someone else has time to reply to you.

Me personally I will be happy for us all to salvage anything from this train wreck and will accept what I can get as long as its considered fair by the majority should it come to vote. I don't want to see anyone screwed more over this than they already are. Both you and I are but tiny cogs in all this.

leopard2
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March 01, 2014, 12:33:33 AM
 #53

Nice plan

debt-to-equity swaps are often done; even for countries this is possible (by turning bonds into money). I bet we will see some more examples in our lifetime   Cool

Good. How to submit it to people who can do that?


It is Wallstreet work - maybe the Winklevoss twins got the right contacts? It would be in their interest to save the Gox brand because they are whales.

Truth is the new hatespeech.
joehal
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March 01, 2014, 12:35:46 AM
 #54

This is a much better plan than a bankruptcy. We have a much better chance to get our money, by having a share in a future, better exchange. Think about it. It could set an example in the bitcoin world.
  The first  completely transparent and crowd sourced exchange, with 1 million users as owners

Upvote this
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yyrvf/open_letter_to_mark_karpeles_voluntary/

it seems there are a lot of people interested in those gox bitcoins to stay lost. Weird
leopard2
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March 01, 2014, 12:47:46 AM
 #55

The Vinklevoss twins, and the investors behind Second Market, should each grab a baseball bat and visit M.K. for a thorough negotiation about this  Grin

Truth is the new hatespeech.
DeathAndTaxes
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March 01, 2014, 12:50:50 AM
 #56

My guess is the OP hasn't looked into securities law.  That would be a good place to start.
ilpirata79
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March 01, 2014, 01:04:59 AM
 #57

You and others in this thread have proposed devaluing dollars, when dollars aren't the commodity being traded on that exchange ,it is the bitcoins that have the fluctuating price in dollars. Dollars are the benchmark, the value of the dollar does not change on this exchange ,it only changes on the forex markets and is defined by the forex markets.

Yes, bitcoins have fluctuating price: at this very moment each of them is worth more or less 550$... a lot more of 135$.

Best regards,
ilpirata79
shadyz
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March 01, 2014, 01:15:05 AM
 #58

You and others in this thread have proposed devaluing dollars, when dollars aren't the commodity being traded on that exchange ,it is the bitcoins that have the fluctuating price in dollars. Dollars are the benchmark, the value of the dollar does not change on this exchange ,it only changes on the forex markets and is defined by the forex markets.

Yes, bitcoins have fluctuating price: at this very moment each of them is worth more or less 550$... a lot more of 135$.

Best regards,
ilpirata79

You should look at my previous post ,i explained why your current assertion is idiotic.
ilpirata79
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March 01, 2014, 01:44:15 AM
 #59

You and others in this thread have proposed devaluing dollars, when dollars aren't the commodity being traded on that exchange ,it is the bitcoins that have the fluctuating price in dollars. Dollars are the benchmark, the value of the dollar does not change on this exchange ,it only changes on the forex markets and is defined by the forex markets.

Yes, bitcoins have fluctuating price: at this very moment each of them is worth more or less 550$... a lot more of 135$.

Best regards,
ilpirata79

You should look at my previous post ,i explained why your current assertion is idiotic.

Why is it? Isn't a bitcoin worth 550$ now?

Best regards,
ilpirata79
darkmule
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March 01, 2014, 04:38:48 AM
 #60


mark wont be continuing as CEO of gox check video in link

Hope for his sake that he's stocking up on lube.
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