[2018-08-20] After the Bitcoin Boom: Hard Lessons for Cryptocurrency Investors

[gentlemand]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/technology/cryptocurrency-investor-losses.html

Fooking pitiful reading here. After all this time and the relentless grind of 2014/15 I truly do not understand how these people didn't think the exact same thing could happen again, even more so when there was more empty shit than ever ready to relieve them of their money.

Losing money sucks. Losing it to blatantly worthless projects 'led' by people who appear to be stock images with made up names makes you a sucker in a world of suck.

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[TheBeardedBaby]

How illiterate one should be to put all his savings in something so volatile as bitcoin. The were some people selling their houses/cars to invest in crypo, I don't know what they're doing but the suicide rates are a bit higher then the last years, so hope is not the reflection of the bear market last few months.

You loose only when you sell.

[hatshepsut93]

How dumb does one have to be to jump into the market that has been booming for 2 years and just recently went parabolic?

I guess they really drank that "blockchain technology" kool-aid and seriously believed that cryptocurrencies/blockchain are about to change the world. I'm sure most of those people don't have any solid background in related fields like computer science, cryptography, software engineering; and their research consisted of watching a few videos on Youtube and reading some articles.

This tweet summarizes this article perfectly: https://twitter.com/karbonbased/status/1031541717135179776

[vy99]

Calling them "investors" is a bit misleading. These people were looking for a get-rich-quick scheme. I bet that 6 months before the price shot up they had no idea what Bitcoin was, they just saw a money making opportunity and plunged right in...the "hard lesson" here is don't be so stupid with your money.

[Carlton Banks]

How illiterate one should be to put all his savings in something so volatile as bitcoin.

How dumb does one have to be to jump into the market that has been booming for 2 years and just recently went parabolic?

the "hard lesson" here is don't be so stupid with your money.

You all sound like you've got a pretty responsible "caveat emptor" attitude toward asset investing. There's a problem with that.

These fools are going to become more numerous over time, Bitcoin's growing popularity is going to make the situation much worse. Eventually though, there will be too many of them, and government re-distributionist types can exploit the situation by offering them their money back. The worst case is serious: imagine a country with existing bad inflation problems proposing to bail out people who lost everything on, say, a next-gen crypto that then went to zero. If solving the problem using central bank credit is considered too high risk, then crypto profits will be targeted instead.

In those circumstances, governments might try to destroy Bitcoin by using confiscation to get the economic majority, then using that power to push a hard fork to centralisation. If you believe you would submit to confiscation of your BTC in those most difficult of cricumstances, then think carefully what you would be risking: not just your own monetary sovereignty, but that of the Bitcoiners who refuse to comply. I don't think this risk is high, but in any circumstances, remember that every satoshi that falls into the wrong hands can be used to push Bitcoin into a centralised hard fork. You have a responsibility to both yourself and the rest of the Bitcoin users, take heed.

[AXELNetwork]

How illiterate one should be to put all his savings in something so volatile as bitcoin.

How dumb does one have to be to jump into the market that has been booming for 2 years and just recently went parabolic?

the "hard lesson" here is don't be so stupid with your money.

The worst case is serious: imagine a country with existing bad inflation problems proposing to bail out people who lost everything on, say, a next-gen crypto that then went to zero.

Wouldn't a bailout like that cost billions, if not hundreds of billions, of dollars? What country can afford that?

[BitHodler]

How illiterate one should be to put all his savings in something so volatile as bitcoin. The were some people selling their houses/cars to invest in crypo, I don't know what they're doing but the suicide rates are a bit higher then the last years, so hope is not the reflection of the bear market last few months.

It's like gambling actually. People initially bet small amounts and keep winning more bets than losing, then go big and bust themselves. What's next is that people blame the house for being rigged and so on.

Crypto has been like people investing small amounts on the way up, which has been profitable on the way up, then went big with their savings or loans and busted themselves by having bought at peak levels.

What do these crypto people blame? Yep, Bitcoin and manipulation. It's horrible for people to go through and wish they were a bit smarter, but they only learn by sucking on their losses on the way down.

[hatshepsut93]

You all sound like you've got a pretty responsible "caveat emptor" attitude toward asset investing. There's a problem with that.

These fools are going to become more numerous over time, Bitcoin's growing popularity is going to make the situation much worse. Eventually though, there will be too many of them, and government re-distributionist types can exploit the situation by offering them their money back. The worst case is serious: imagine a country with existing bad inflation problems proposing to bail out people who lost everything on, say, a next-gen crypto that then went to zero. If solving the problem using central bank credit is considered too high risk, then crypto profits will be targeted instead.

In those circumstances, governments might try to destroy Bitcoin by using confiscation to get the economic majority, then using that power to push a hard fork to centralisation. If you believe you would submit to confiscation of your BTC in those most difficult of cricumstances, then think carefully what you would be risking: not just your own monetary sovereignty, but that of the Bitcoiners who refuse to comply. I don't think this risk is high, but in any circumstances, remember that every satoshi that falls into the wrong hands can be used to push Bitcoin into a centralised hard fork. You have a responsibility to both yourself and the rest of the Bitcoin users, take heed.

Such scenario has never crossed my mind because I've never seen any statements from government officials or bankers that sounded like that, but it makes sense that in the future Bitcoin's community can be so diluted by "normies" that they will support forks that violate core principles. But I don't think about it as a doomsday scenario, because the technology will endure, the original chain might lose a portion of its hashrate, nodes and users, but those who value its principles will stay. Worst case scenario, oldschool Bitcoiners will have to switch to some other coins or create new ones.

[Carlton Banks]

But I don't think about it as a doomsday scenario, because the technology will endure, the original chain might lose a portion of its hashrate, nodes and users, but those who value its principles will stay. Worst case scenario, oldschool Bitcoiners will have to switch to some other coins or create new ones.

It's always been said that the risk of exactly that kind of cat and mouse dynamic will preclude the disaster, but it seems like a precarious assumption, and it's unchartered territory. And of course sheer innovation may rule it out, although what form that takes is of course unknown except to whoever invents it.

[1BTC EQUALS 1CAR]

If people lost all of the money and properties they have in bitcoin then it's clearly their huge mistake. But if they lost just a partial amount that it's not that of a big deal then they are close on making their journey here to success. A small mistake is part of being successful but if you guys sold your houses then that's really a huge mistake.

[Kakmakr]

How illiterate one should be to put all his savings in something so volatile as bitcoin.

How dumb does one have to be to jump into the market that has been booming for 2 years and just recently went parabolic?

the "hard lesson" here is don't be so stupid with your money.

You all sound like you've got a pretty responsible "caveat emptor" attitude toward asset investing. There's a problem with that.

These fools are going to become more numerous over time, Bitcoin's growing popularity is going to make the situation much worse. Eventually though, there will be too many of them, and government re-distributionist types can exploit the situation by offering them their money back. The worst case is serious: imagine a country with existing bad inflation problems proposing to bail out people who lost everything on, say, a next-gen crypto that then went to zero. If solving the problem using central bank credit is considered too high risk, then crypto profits will be targeted instead.

In those circumstances, governments might try to destroy Bitcoin by using confiscation to get the economic majority, then using that power to push a hard fork to centralisation. If you believe you would submit to confiscation of your BTC in those most difficult of cricumstances, then think carefully what you would be risking: not just your own monetary sovereignty, but that of the Bitcoiners who refuse to comply. I don't think this risk is high, but in any circumstances, remember that every satoshi that falls into the wrong hands can be used to push Bitcoin into a centralised hard fork. You have a responsibility to both yourself and the rest of the Bitcoin users, take heed.

In 8 years, Greece have received bailouts to the value of roughly $330 billion in loans. This is just for one country and this is done with tax payers money. Why should Bankers and corrupt government politicians get these bailouts and not people who has lost money on high risk Crypto investments?

We have tax exemptions for the rich, but the poor and middle class must suffer when these Bankers and politicians makes mistakes.

I say, F@CK them! Reward the Poor & middle class, if they lose money on high risk investments and stop bailing out these fat cats.

[Carlton Banks]

We have tax exemptions for the rich, but the poor and middle class must suffer when these Bankers and politicians makes mistakes.

I say, F@CK them!

Right, I'm with you

Reward the Poor & middle class, if they lose money on high risk investments and stop bailing out these fat cats.

Don't agree. No-one should be rewarded for making mistake, incentives to do smart things must be in place for everyone, the alternative is to squander resources on people who don't make productive use of those resources. Gaming that would be easy:

1. Invest in high risk high yield asset
2. Lose everything
3. Say "I'm poor, bailout please!"
4. Back to 1

[1Referee]

Reward the Poor & middle class, if they lose money on high risk investments and stop bailing out these fat cats.

There is an important aspect people tend to ignore, which is the fact that poor people or those who fit in the middle class category, tend to victimize themselves by blaming everything around them for being where they are in life. Instead of blaming those around you, which hasn't worked out for decades, so the chances that it will work in today's world are even slimmer, people need to actually put time and effort into finding a solution themselves.

You don't have to expect help from anyone, so it's all up to you to make the best out of it. Either complain and don't progress in life, or take the initiative and open all possible doors in the world that otherwise wouldn't open for you. Bitcoin is a great first step towards that, which worked out well for me looking back now.

[squatter]

No-one should be rewarded for making mistake, incentives to do smart things must be in place for everyone, the alternative is to squander resources on people who don't make productive use of those resources.

Well said.

Reward the Poor & middle class, if they lose money on high risk investments and stop bailing out these fat cats.

There is an important aspect people tend to ignore, which is the fact that poor people or those who fit in the middle class category, tend to victimize themselves by blaming everything around them for being where they are in life.

That's quite the generalization; "poor or middle class" covers the vast majority of people.

In this system of governments and nation-states, there's plenty of blame to go around. To me, the problem is that most people think electing someone different can fundamentally change the system. It can't. Most people turn to the government for change, but meaningful change rarely happens that way. The reason government exists at all is to protect elites and to keep the status quo from changing.

Instead of blaming those around you, which hasn't worked out for decades, so the chances that it will work in today's world are even slimmer, people need to actually put time and effort into finding a solution themselves.

People should be proactive about their circumstances, yes. But that only goes so far when the system itself is corrupt and intended to keep most people disenfranchised. I do think it's important to know who to blame, and why the system is fucked.

You don't have to expect help from anyone, so it's all up to you to make the best out of it. Either complain and don't progress in life, or take the initiative and open all possible doors in the world that otherwise wouldn't open for you. Bitcoin is a great first step towards that, which worked out well for me looking back now.

True, but remember, we're pretty damn lucky to have been early adopters. All the kids growing up today won't have that chance.

[bbc.reporter]

Carlton Banks is correct. The fools of the market will return and increase overtime. Also, those new increased fools pumping are what will give the bagholders the chance to dump their scamcoins hehehe.

[Kakmakr]

We have tax exemptions for the rich, but the poor and middle class must suffer when these Bankers and politicians makes mistakes.

I say, F@CK them!

Right, I'm with you

Reward the Poor & middle class, if they lose money on high risk investments and stop bailing out these fat cats.

Don't agree. No-one should be rewarded for making mistake, incentives to do smart things must be in place for everyone, the alternative is to squander resources on people who don't make productive use of those resources. Gaming that would be easy:

1. Invest in high risk high yield asset
2. Lose everything
3. Say "I'm poor, bailout please!"
4. Back to 1

You are not rewarding the mistakes, you are rewarding the balls to take high risk, when you know one mistake will ruin these middle class and push them into poverty. There are too many people who are not saving any money at all and even worst, they spending that money on cheap consumer products and booze and gambling.

I say, reward the poor & middle class when they take these risk and help them when they fall. Why should the government provide a safety net for the rich and not for the poor? <When the rich people take these risks, they know they will have this safety net, so they take reckless risks>

I say, give this safety net <bailout> to everyone or take it away for the rich and the poor. 

[TheBeardedBaby]

You are not rewarding the mistakes, you are rewarding the balls to take high risk, when you know one mistake will ruin these middle class and push them into poverty. There are too many people who are not saving any money at all and even worst, they spending that money on cheap consumer products and booze and gambling.

I say, reward the poor & middle class when they take these risk and help them when they fall. Why should the government provide a safety net for the rich and not for the poor? <When the rich people take these risks, they know they will have this safety net, so they take reckless risks>

I say, give this safety net <bailout> to everyone or take it away for the rich and the poor.  

Sorry but I call this bullshit.
1st. All the traders on the stock market should be rewarded when they make a wrong decisions.
2nd Why someone else should be responsible for your stupidity when choosing a scamcoin for example?
3rd  I, as a tax paying person, disagree my money to be distributed to the fools mentioned in the point 2.
4th  Then everyone shall make a bad deals for the easy money, and there you go, the perfect way to exploit the government's money, my money.
5th  Everyone will become a scammer as it so easy to fool the people
... I can continue for days so I'll stop here as those should be enough arguments.

No thanks, I prefer to bear the responsibility for my own actions, gains and looses. If I make a wrong decision, it's my problem. If I loose more money than I can afford, it's because of my stupidity. That's it.

[gentlemand]

You are not rewarding the mistakes, you are rewarding the balls to take high risk, when you know one mistake will ruin these middle class and push them into poverty. There are too many people who are not saving any money at all and even worst, they spending that money on cheap consumer products and booze and gambling.

I say, reward the poor & middle class when they take these risk and help them when they fall. Why should the government provide a safety net for the rich and not for the poor? <When the rich people take these risks, they know they will have this safety net, so they take reckless risks>

I say, give this safety net <bailout> to everyone or take it away for the rich and the poor.  

The developed world is making people infantile and entitled enough as it is. No way should anyone be further subsidising the moronic choices of others. They do enough of that already.

As for the rich, that's how it's been since forever and it will never change.

Disclaimer - I think libertarianism put into full practice would be the most nightmarish society imaginable.

[vy99]

You are not rewarding the mistakes, you are rewarding the balls to take high risk, when you know one mistake will ruin these middle class and push them into poverty. There are too many people who are not saving any money at all and even worst, they spending that money on cheap consumer products and booze and gambling.

I say, reward the poor & middle class when they take these risk and help them when they fall. Why should the government provide a safety net for the rich and not for the poor? <When the rich people take these risks, they know they will have this safety net, so they take reckless risks>

I say, give this safety net <bailout> to everyone or take it away for the rich and the poor.  

The developed world is making people infantile and entitled enough as it is. No way should anyone be further subsidising the moronic choices of others. They do enough of that already.

As for the rich, that's how it's been since forever and it will never change.

Disclaimer - I think libertarianism put into full practice would be the most nightmarish society imaginable.

Any "ism" put into full practice would be horrible for society.

[Theb]

That's what happens when investors jump into a investment they don't have any experience with, FOMO is really what set their portfolio on fire. Remember that you are really taking a big risk on catching up on a jumping cryptocurrency in the bull market when you haven't literally build any base with it yet. The result is you have a higher average compared to people who has already built a based and having a gain might take long as you really don't know on what price will it stop to go up. These is the typical scenario for those people who have bought BTC at 17,000$ and above during the December boom, the result is most of them have forgotten to offload their coins before they even get to taste their profits.