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Author Topic: Vow not to exchange bitcoin for fiat  (Read 3255 times)
netrin
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October 22, 2011, 03:26:05 AM
 #1

Are developers, merchants, or anyone offering goods or services willing to accept payment in bitcoin and vow not to exchange those bitcoin for fiat money?

Are consumers more likely to pay for services and goods if the receiving party vowed not to exchange those bitcoin for fiat money?

I would. On both counts. If requested, I would sincerely vow not to exchange for dollars, euros nor any fiat currency, bitcoin that I received for any goods (tupilak, crafts, etc) or services (programming) I offer, particularly if the counter party took the same vow. Likewise, I'd be more willing to offer bitcoin if I trusted s/he would use the bitcoin within the bitcoin community. Anyone else?

Greenlandic tupilak. Hand carved, traditional cursed bone figures. Sorry, polar bear, walrus and human remains not available for export.
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worldinacoin
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October 22, 2011, 03:28:34 AM
 #2

It will be quite tough, depending on your supply chain.  If your upstream or goods provider are willing to accept payment in bitcoin, I guess it is possible. If not you still need to convert to pay them in fiat.
netrin
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October 22, 2011, 03:31:28 AM
 #3

Sure, I understand the issue fully. But we need to try to connect these trade links whenever possible within the economy, otherwise we have no economy. I am not taking a vow not to convert any of my bitcoin, only when I'm payed or paying with someone else who also makes a sincere effort or request to do the same.

Greenlandic tupilak. Hand carved, traditional cursed bone figures. Sorry, polar bear, walrus and human remains not available for export.
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October 22, 2011, 03:36:14 AM
 #4

Ehhhh I don't really like the idea of a "vow not to exchange."  People will keep the currencies they prefer, and Bitcoin will work its way up there without such vows. One should be led to Bitcoin based on their best economic interest - on reason - not on an order from the brotherhood =)

But in any case, I've never sold coins for dollars, so I'm living the vow anyway!
netrin
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October 22, 2011, 03:52:25 AM
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Erik, suppose I requested that you write an Ode to Liberty to be presented at some event and offered more than fair compensation in bitcoin but with the stipulation or request that you try to spend your earnings within the bitcoin community. Would you deny the request and offer? Out of principal or to keep your options open?

Greenlandic tupilak. Hand carved, traditional cursed bone figures. Sorry, polar bear, walrus and human remains not available for export.
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October 22, 2011, 04:27:44 AM
 #6

I find this idea interesting and would support sellers who did this. However, there is almost no where to buy things with bitcoin other than SilkRoad right?

There are tons of places to buy things.  Besides my store of course....

I have bought DVD's.
Computer cases
Hard drives
Keychains
Software (physical)

As well I have spend on services such as logo design, advertising and stored value cards.


worldinacoin
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October 22, 2011, 04:43:12 AM
 #7

I have never exchanged bitcoin for fiat, I am trying not to, but it is hard to vow, though I will always try to persuade those I deal with to conduct the exchanges in bitcoins.
Giraffe.BTC
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October 22, 2011, 04:18:57 PM
 #8

Maybe to raise awareness, people who pledge to hold onto their Bitcoins even in the face of temptation could all wear a ring as a symbol of their pledge?  This way, when they're in the heat of trading and are tempted to click the mouse and sell off their precious coins, then would see the ring and remember what Bitcoin is really about.  Not money, but something more.

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elggawf
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October 22, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
 #9

What is this bullshit?

No offense, but this idea is stupid as hell. That bubble to $30 was nothing but an elaborate game of musical chairs caused by rampant speculation. But who cares about fixing that, and encouraging an actual, stable, and sustainable economy. No, let's just repeat the thing by having everyone pledge to hold coins and artificially inflate the price again! \o/

Again, we'll be starting a brand new game of musical chairs, only this time people are "pledging" not to sit down when the music stops. Do you not see how completely fuckin' retarded such an idea is? If I had to put my finger on the pulse of the one chief issue that's plaguing Bitcoin, it's that it rewards people who are dishonest at the expense of those who aren't. This idea of yours will do exactly the same thing, those who break their pledge first when the price gets too delicious will benefit at the expense of those who hold to the pledge.

Here's an idea, let the market do what it wants... isn't that, you know, the whole economic reasoning behind Bitcoin after all? Exactly how full of shit are the libertard ideals that make up much of this community if it's "laissez faire" until the market does something we don't like, then we conspire to "fix" it? Oh, let me guess - it's only market manipulation when the government does it? If it's private people it's just the invisible hand, right?

This is just wrong, wrong, wrong. If I send you Bitcoins, do whatever the fuck you want with them. With any luck and some really well funded market makers, we'll end up at a stable price (whatever that may be, it really doesn't matter) and we can go back to encouraging more merchants to use it.

^_^
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October 22, 2011, 10:20:59 PM
 #10

I will vow to never convert all profits with Cheaper In Bitcoins to any fiat currency as for the items sold is a different story since no wholesaler accepts Bitcoins so I will always be forced to convert more then 90% of any bitcoin flow to fiat.
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October 22, 2011, 10:58:14 PM
 #11

I vow (okay actually not, just a statement of what I do) to convert to fiat whenever I need to. This is because I hold my value in coins which is what I do because I think it is best (for me).

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October 22, 2011, 10:59:44 PM
 #12

I vow not do convert my bitcoins to buy drugs, ever again.
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October 22, 2011, 11:14:33 PM
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I vow not do convert my bitcoins to buy drugs, ever again.

+1

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October 22, 2011, 11:49:23 PM
 #14

You can't pay your taxes in BTC and you can't make anonymous purchases with electronic fiat transfers. There are uses for both but vows to use the former in a strict manner are useless in a publicly-traded currency. People will only stop converting to fiat when they have an incentive to do so, and that will only come when the services are readily available and easy to purchase in BTC. And THAT will only happen when more merchants have a strong incentive to get on board with a volatile currency...

*broken record*
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October 23, 2011, 12:01:27 AM
 #15

What is this bullshit?

No offense, but this idea is stupid as hell. That bubble to $30 was nothing but an elaborate game of musical chairs caused by rampant speculation. But who cares about fixing that, and encouraging an actual, stable, and sustainable economy. No, let's just repeat the thing by having everyone pledge to hold coins and artificially inflate the price again! \o/

Again, we'll be starting a brand new game of musical chairs, only this time people are "pledging" not to sit down when the music stops. Do you not see how completely fuckin' retarded such an idea is? If I had to put my finger on the pulse of the one chief issue that's plaguing Bitcoin, it's that it rewards people who are dishonest at the expense of those who aren't. This idea of yours will do exactly the same thing, those who break their pledge first when the price gets too delicious will benefit at the expense of those who hold to the pledge.

Here's an idea, let the market do what it wants... isn't that, you know, the whole economic reasoning behind Bitcoin after all? Exactly how full of shit are the libertard ideals that make up much of this community if it's "laissez faire" until the market does something we don't like, then we conspire to "fix" it? Oh, let me guess - it's only market manipulation when the government does it? If it's private people it's just the invisible hand, right?

This is just wrong, wrong, wrong. If I send you Bitcoins, do whatever the fuck you want with them. With any luck and some really well funded market makers, we'll end up at a stable price (whatever that may be, it really doesn't matter) and we can go back to encouraging more merchants to use it.

+1. Please be selfish, we don't need any martyrs here.
mjcmurfy
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October 23, 2011, 12:22:00 AM
 #16

I think this is a great idea.

I too am putting my name on this list. I vow not to exchange any bitcoin revenues generated by my business BitCoinTorrentz for fiat, except that which is required to pay expenses that cannot be otherwise covered. It would just be a blind-faced lie for anyone to say that they won't exchange any coin, ever, but I pledge to keep the amount I exchange to an absolute minimum.

Since I have very few expenses that cannot be paid for in bitcoin, this will not be too difficult of a promise to keep.
I have not exchanged a single coin for fiat to date.

http://www.bitcointorrentz.com/images/bct_button_117_30.png - BitCoinTorrentz.com: High-speed HTTP torrent downloads. 0.05 btc/gb. Up to 50% discount with free membership!
netrin
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October 23, 2011, 01:26:45 AM
 #17

I am not proposing this pledge as a martyr or to fix the exchange rate. It's an acknowledgement that for some services, the dollar or euro exchange rate is irrelevant. I want to use bitcoins because they are interesting and want to work and trade with others who share 'the love'. With others I am also perfectly happy to trade goods and services at 'real world' rates.

If a group of developers worked on a specific project for the lulz, we could offer up tasks and reward each other with bitcoin, thus establishing bitcoin as an arbitrary boo. I imagine donators not directly participating in the development who support the effort may additionally respect the pledge and give generously where they feel most confidence; Myself as donor included. I would just as happily trade with like minded merchants and use bitcoin primarily to balance accounts.

I am interested in many forms of crypto-finance, credits, ripple, ot, etc and want to interact with others who sincerely share the same fascination to help build a community in action. Rather than the legions of talkers, I want to know who's walking.

Thanks Goat, Evoorhees, Holliday, Wisdomtool, Xenland, FreeMoney, and Mjcmurfy. Even "not a vow, I do it anyway" is good enough for me.

Greenlandic tupilak. Hand carved, traditional cursed bone figures. Sorry, polar bear, walrus and human remains not available for export.
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October 23, 2011, 02:40:38 AM
 #18

What is this bullshit?

No offense, but this idea is stupid as hell. That bubble to $30 was nothing but an elaborate game of musical chairs caused by rampant speculation. But who cares about fixing that, and encouraging an actual, stable, and sustainable economy. No, let's just repeat the thing by having everyone pledge to hold coins and artificially inflate the price again! \o/

Again, we'll be starting a brand new game of musical chairs, only this time people are "pledging" not to sit down when the music stops. Do you not see how completely fuckin' retarded such an idea is? If I had to put my finger on the pulse of the one chief issue that's plaguing Bitcoin, it's that it rewards people who are dishonest at the expense of those who aren't. This idea of yours will do exactly the same thing, those who break their pledge first when the price gets too delicious will benefit at the expense of those who hold to the pledge.

Here's an idea, let the market do what it wants... isn't that, you know, the whole economic reasoning behind Bitcoin after all? Exactly how full of shit are the libertard ideals that make up much of this community if it's "laissez faire" until the market does something we don't like, then we conspire to "fix" it? Oh, let me guess - it's only market manipulation when the government does it? If it's private people it's just the invisible hand, right?

This is just wrong, wrong, wrong. If I send you Bitcoins, do whatever the fuck you want with them. With any luck and some really well funded market makers, we'll end up at a stable price (whatever that may be, it really doesn't matter) and we can go back to encouraging more merchants to use it.
TL:DR

I think the whole point is to spend Bitcoins on products and services instead of converting them then spending it in your fiat money, Not to outright hold the fuck outta them until we reach a huge bubble then convert. Open up your eyes bro its not always about the money its about convince of the Bitcoin service.

I feel soo safe spending my Bitcoins and keeping them under my pillow. With fiat... I'm constantly spending money for services watching credit score, identity theft and those things only tell you "after" you've been stolen from. Dealing with credit/debit cards are such as hassel becuase once a company has those numbers you better trust thos companies with your life as some of them find it an inconvience to charge you on the spot and will charge you when you feel like it... mean while days/weeks go by and you think "yeah all those charges went through i'm back to zero" then BAM! your hit with a huge over-draft fee becuase you thought all 11 companies already charged you.

no no Bitcoin is much more then just a pump-and-dump experiment its a new kind of entity in its self.... we still don't even know wtf to call it yet.... Is it a currency, commodity store of value.... all right answers depending on whom you talk to...
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October 23, 2011, 03:03:13 AM
 #19

I like how you wrote "TLDR" then almost wrote as much as I did. Wink

You're wrong on a few points though, and I'll tell you why. Yes, you have to keep an eye on your accounts with "fiat" dollars, but at least you have some recourse. If someone makes off with your BTC, you're fucked. Our economy still hasn't evolved any sort of market for insuring them (which is probably what's going to have to happen for it to be safe, but people will resist that because it's a peer2peer system, and history has shown us that trusting some centralized service with your Bitcoins is akin to grabbing your ankles in a communal shower).

As far as overdraft fees: learn how to manage your money. You don't look at your balance and think "this is how much money I have to spend" unless you're a teenager. That's true no matter what currency you work in, and it'll likely be true in BTC eventually.

For the record: I haven't cashed out any BTC to USD in (almost to the day) three months. It hasn't been worth it. Instead, I spend whatever I earn or mine. I'm literally already doing everything this pledge is talking about, and I still think the pledge is a dumb idea. Bitcoin's just imaginary play money to me, I don't notice the minimal impact on our electric bill (I'm only running one very modest GPU without any overclock/overvolt) and I get some goofy shit like games or whatever without "spending any money" (it's purely psychological).

My point was that the economic activity is so low at the moment that if everyone pledges to only spend their BTC and some of us pledge to only spend BTC with people who pledge to only spend that BTC, then sooner or later there's going to be people who wind up just holding that BTC. There aren't any businesses yet who only have expenses in BTC, so there aren't many businesses who can afford to not cash out their BTC. So we again arrive back at the situation with people resisting the urge to cash out, and the person who profits most is the first person to break that pledge.

Spending BTC is always good, but realize sooner or later someone has to cash out. It's just better to let people do what they wish with it, let the market do as it pleases and avoid any meddling.

^_^
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October 23, 2011, 03:16:03 AM
 #20

I like how you wrote "TLDR" then almost wrote as much as I did. Wink


I was hoping you would notice ;P
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