Bitcoin Forum
December 09, 2016, 06:17:18 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Can I tear a Bitcoin in two, like a banknote?  (Read 1052 times)
FreeTrade
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 854



View Profile
October 22, 2011, 04:05:11 AM
 #1

One way you can use cash is to tear a banknote in two, providing one half now, and the other half later.

It ensures that the recipient is not paid any amount in advance, and ensures that the payer has no motivation to welch on payment, as half the banknote is of no use to either party.

Is there an analogy for Bitcoin that might be more efficient than escrow and without counterparty risk?

The internet is freedom to communicate without permission. Crypto is freedom to trade without permission.

HODLCoin ANN - Interest rate 0.000015% per block for every balance. Term Deposit Rate 2500% - http://hodlcoin.com/
1481264238
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481264238

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481264238
Reply with quote  #2

1481264238
Report to moderator
1481264238
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481264238

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481264238
Reply with quote  #2

1481264238
Report to moderator
1481264238
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481264238

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481264238
Reply with quote  #2

1481264238
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481264238
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481264238

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481264238
Reply with quote  #2

1481264238
Report to moderator
adamstgBit
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1904


Trusted Bitcoiner


View Profile WWW
October 22, 2011, 04:16:43 AM
 #2

One way you can use cash is to tear a banknote in two, providing one half now, and the other half later.

It ensures that the recipient is not paid any amount in advance, and ensures that the payer has no motivation to welch on payment, as half the banknote is of no use to either party.

Is there an analogy for Bitcoin that might be more efficient than escrow and without counterparty risk?

i think, if you tear a bank note in half, that half with the SN number is the valid half .... the other is worthless

i would use an escrow service. but clearly you dont want that,

maybe you could send the public key and then the private key ?

maybe you could send half the other half later ?

payb.tc
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812



View Profile
October 22, 2011, 04:17:15 AM
 #3

not sure about bitcoin (or USD) but in Australia, you can take your half bank note and redeem it for half the face value:

Quote
If between 20 per cent and 80 per cent is missing:    The banknote is regarded as incomplete and value is paid in proportion with the percentage remaining, e.g. half face value if half the banknote is present.

http://www.rba.gov.au/banknotes/damaged/policy.html
evoorhees
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 994


Democracy is the original 51% attack


View Profile
October 22, 2011, 04:22:12 AM
 #4

Bank notes are better than Bitcoins in many ways. For example, you can burn them and heat your home. You can also use them for toilet paper, or crumble them up and use for insulation.

THAT is the intrinsic value Bitcoin can't hope to match.
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
October 22, 2011, 04:34:09 AM
 #5


Is there an analogy for Bitcoin that might be more efficient than escrow and without counterparty risk?

Yes, and no.  There is an internal scripting mechanism that permits complex transactions to be processed, for a fee, but that scripting mechanism is not presently in use.  Mostly because it's not complete & not vetted for security.  Once it goes live, you will be able to do some very creative things.  The torn dollar pseudo-escrow thing is one of the very creative things considered early on, along with (off the top of my head) multi-user signatures to send or claim funds (like on a corporate check that requires two officer signatures to be valid, or a cashier's check made out to to receipients that must both sign) or transactions that can be claimed by one of several different addresses (first to claim) or to no particular address at all but can only be claimed by satisfying a scripting rule, such as knowledge of an encryption key.  Also, transactions that cannot be claimed until after a certain time has passed, such as a postdated check; and transactions that can be revoked before that time period has passed.  I believe that you can presently send to many (like a business would make payroll) different addresses already using a single transaction, but the vanilla client doesn't have access to this feature.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
FreeTrade
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 854



View Profile
October 22, 2011, 04:34:52 AM
 #6

i think, if you tear a bank note in half, that half with the SN number is the valid half .... the other is worthless
I guess it is different depending on the issuing authority - but this part not interesting to me!

i would use an escrow service. but clearly you dont want that,

maybe you could send the public key and then the private key ?

maybe you could send half the other half later ?

The payer would still have an incentive not to send it.

I'm wondering if there is something cryptographic whereby funds could be deposited at a BTC address, but both parties have only half of the key each. I'm thinking it might allow for instant payment for a retail transaction without the need for a counterparty.


The internet is freedom to communicate without permission. Crypto is freedom to trade without permission.

HODLCoin ANN - Interest rate 0.000015% per block for every balance. Term Deposit Rate 2500% - http://hodlcoin.com/
adamstgBit
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1904


Trusted Bitcoiner


View Profile WWW
October 22, 2011, 04:38:32 AM
 #7

i think, if you tear a bank note in half, that half with the SN number is the valid half .... the other is worthless
I guess it is different depending on the issuing authority - but this part not interesting to me!

i would use an escrow service. but clearly you dont want that,

maybe you could send the public key and then the private key ?

maybe you could send half the other half later ?

The payer would still have an incentive not to send it.

I'm wondering if there is something cryptographic whereby funds could be deposited at a BTC address, but both parties have only half of the key each. I'm thinking it might allow for instant payment for a retail transaction without the need for a counterparty.



Nope,

this is what an escrow service is for,
but for retail.... escrow is useless, the retailer has a reputation to up hold

FreeTrade
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 854



View Profile
October 22, 2011, 04:55:37 AM
 #8

Yes, and no.  There is an internal scripting mechanism that permits complex transactions to be processed, for a fee, but that scripting mechanism is not presently in use.  Mostly because it's not complete & not vetted for security.  Once it goes live, you will be able to do some very creative things.  The torn dollar pseudo-escrow thing is one of the very creative things considered early on, along with (off the top of my head) multi-user signatures to send or claim funds (like on a corporate check that requires two officer signatures to be valid, or a cashier's check made out to to receipients that must both sign) or transactions that can be claimed by one of several different addresses (first to claim) or to no particular address at all but can only be claimed by satisfying a scripting rule, such as knowledge of an encryption key.  Also, transactions that cannot be claimed until after a certain time has passed, such as a postdated check; and transactions that can be revoked before that time period has passed.  I believe that you can presently send to many (like a business would make payroll) different addresses already using a single transaction, but the vanilla client doesn't have access to this feature.

Thanks MoonShadow. Very interesting stuff. It always seems like there is more to learn about Bitcoin. Smiley

The internet is freedom to communicate without permission. Crypto is freedom to trade without permission.

HODLCoin ANN - Interest rate 0.000015% per block for every balance. Term Deposit Rate 2500% - http://hodlcoin.com/
Sannyasi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 455



View Profile WWW
October 22, 2011, 05:15:25 AM
 #9

purposefully ripping a dollar is a federal crime- (quick google search below)

not illegal to bring a more than half paper note in for exchange for a new one BUT--- it's very illegal to purposefully destroy/deface it for any intention other than spending it or whatever it's normally used for

EDIT: forgot google linke: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=2144&bih=1069&q=is+ripping+USD+money+illegal%3F&oq=is+ripping+USD+money+illegal%3F&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=5752l6604l0l6826l6l6l0l0l0l3l237l977l0.3.2l5l0

1DxP5iL6hN5Gd3cwmDz9uFSntW8ALBQaGK

http://gamerkeys.net/common/home.htm <- the best place to get games!

my portfoio: http://windowsofamind.com
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!