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Author Topic: Satoshi, Bitcoin Is a Commodity Not a Currency  (Read 3760 times)
jimbobway
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October 22, 2011, 04:23:22 AM
 #1

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency?  After much thinking I believe that it is a commodity. Also lawyers in France are using the bitcoin.org homepage against us.

Can we please relabel it for the sake of bitcoin and because it really is a commodity?

Thank you.

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"In a nutshell, the network works like a distributed timestamp server, stamping the first transaction to spend a coin. It takes advantage of the nature of information being easy to spread but hard to stifle." -- Satoshi
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Littleshop
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October 22, 2011, 04:28:19 AM
 #2

A cryptographic commodity.  Smiley

klaus
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October 22, 2011, 04:30:00 AM
 #3

A cryptographic commodity.  Smiley


1+ agree

bitmessage:BM-2D9c1oAbkVo96zDhTZ2jV6RXzQ9VG3A6f1​
threema:HXUAMT96
repentance
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October 22, 2011, 04:31:29 AM
 #4

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency?  After much thinking I believe that it is a commodity. Also lawyers in France are using the bitcoin.org homepage against us.

Can we please relabel it for the sake of bitcoin and because it really is a commodity?

Thank you.

Quote
While Bitcoin at a European level is so far not directly impacted by this decision, the Bank de France (France's central bank) has confirmed that because of European banking rules, monetary transfers (deposits and withdrawals) through a single entity are subject to financial regulation and therefore can only be performed by licensed financial institutions such as banks or Payment Service companies (the European Equivalent to a Money Service Business).

It was the money transfers which fell foul of French financial regulations.  Whether Bitcoin is a currency or a commodity doesn't change the fact that MtGox needs to be licensed in order to conduct those monetary transfers under French law.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
MoonShadow
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October 22, 2011, 04:42:20 AM
 #5

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency?  After much thinking I believe that it is a commodity. Also lawyers in France are using the bitcoin.org homepage against us.

Can we please relabel it for the sake of bitcoin and because it really is a commodity?

Thank you.

No, because it's not a commodity.  Bitcoin is a currency, by definition, and cannot be a commodity, also by definition.  If you disagree, then you don't know what these words mean.  Even if we all agreed to start calling it something that it isn't, that wouldn't change a thing; certainly not France or any other entity considering it a currency.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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October 22, 2011, 04:52:05 AM
 #6

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency?  After much thinking I believe that it is a commodity. Also lawyers in France are using the bitcoin.org homepage against us.

Can we please relabel it for the sake of bitcoin and because it really is a commodity?

Thank you.

No, because it's not a commodity.  Bitcoin is a currency, by definition, and cannot be a commodity, also by definition.  If you disagree, then you don't know what these words mean.  Even if we all agreed to start calling it something that it isn't, that wouldn't change a thing; certainly not France or any other entity considering it a currency.

Not to mention that many nations have laws which regulate the sale and exchange of commodities, anyway.

MtGox could call Bitcoin a pog or a token, but it's the various financial services laws of each individual nation which will determine how it's legally defined there and in particular how the exchanges must operate in respect of it.  Different nations may regulate it quite differently.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
evoorhees
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October 22, 2011, 05:47:31 AM
 #7

Bitcoin is both a commodity AND a currency. They are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 Here's why: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47111.0
log0s
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October 22, 2011, 03:57:12 PM
 #8

If you think in terms of the popular Bitcoin metaphors, such as buying, selling, sending, receiving, mining, losing, borrowing, etc., bitcoins, they do seem like a commodity.  But these are just metaphors and not the economic reality.  The reality is that there are no bitcoins.  There are numbers in the blockchain, and these numbers represent bitcoins, but the bitcoins that are being represented do not really exist.  It's all pretend (or delusion).

I think calling bitcoins a commodity is stretching the truth a bit (no pun intended).
I.Goldstein
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October 22, 2011, 04:10:49 PM
 #9

I haat eu Bitcaoin!

img

No, he and his descendants hate Bitcoin.

http://www.economywatch.com/files/imagecache/story/story/the-worlds-richest-family-you-didnt-know-about.01-06_1.jpg
Gabi
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October 22, 2011, 04:23:55 PM
 #10

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency?  After much thinking I believe that it is a commodity. Also lawyers in France are using the bitcoin.org homepage against us.

Can we please relabel it for the sake of bitcoin and because it really is a commodity?

Thank you.

No, because it's not a commodity.  Bitcoin is a currency, by definition, and cannot be a commodity, also by definition.  If you disagree, then you don't know what these words mean.  Even if we all agreed to start calling it something that it isn't, that wouldn't change a thing; certainly not France or any other entity considering it a currency.
Bitcoin is like gold. Is gold a currency?  No
I.Goldstein
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October 22, 2011, 04:26:03 PM
 #11

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency?  After much thinking I believe that it is a commodity. Also lawyers in France are using the bitcoin.org homepage against us.

Can we please relabel it for the sake of bitcoin and because it really is a commodity?

Thank you.

No, because it's not a commodity.  Bitcoin is a currency, by definition, and cannot be a commodity, also by definition.  If you disagree, then you don't know what these words mean.  Even if we all agreed to start calling it something that it isn't, that wouldn't change a thing; certainly not France or any other entity considering it a currency.
Bitcoin is like gold. Is gold a currency?  No
It is. I've bought things for gold and silver more times than I can count. It acts as currency alright and I'll certainly take it over fiat currency any day.
Blitz­
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October 22, 2011, 04:43:21 PM
 #12

Bitcoin IS NOT A CURRENCY.

Bitcoin is no generally accepted medium of exchange.
Bitcoin is no unit of account.
Bitcoins cannot be held longer than a few minutes without being subject to potentially huge losses.

Noone is paid in Bitcoins.
Noone lives on Bitcoins.

This is what Bitcoin is: USD => BTC => USD

It’s a payment method for fiat money. A USD proxy. Nothing more, currently.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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October 22, 2011, 04:47:27 PM
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It’s a payment method for fiat money. A USD proxy. Nothing more, currently.

I added the emphasis  Shocked

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
MoonShadow
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October 22, 2011, 05:17:53 PM
 #14

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency?  After much thinking I believe that it is a commodity. Also lawyers in France are using the bitcoin.org homepage against us.

Can we please relabel it for the sake of bitcoin and because it really is a commodity?

Thank you.

No, because it's not a commodity.  Bitcoin is a currency, by definition, and cannot be a commodity, also by definition.  If you disagree, then you don't know what these words mean.  Even if we all agreed to start calling it something that it isn't, that wouldn't change a thing; certainly not France or any other entity considering it a currency.
Bitcoin is like gold. Is gold a currency?  No

Whenever minted into distinct units of weight, yes it is.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
MoonShadow
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October 22, 2011, 05:24:15 PM
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Bitcoin is both a commodity AND a currency. They are not mutually exclusive concepts.

While not mutually exclusive, they each have characteristics that make them each.  A currency is anything that is intended to be, or by defacto use is, traded as a unit of exchange value.  While a commodity is anything that has a general or consumptive use besides, or in addition to, it's uses as a unit of exchange and storage of value.  Oil can be burned, and copper made into wires.  Both have trade and storage of value uses, but that is not their only useful function.  Bitcoin has no other function than as it's intended use in exchange or storage of value, thus cannot be a commodity.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Jalum
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October 22, 2011, 05:27:59 PM
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Hahaha look at all the doublethink by people who can't withdraw their money from MtGox over the weekend. Smiley
becoin
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October 22, 2011, 05:36:28 PM
 #17

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency? 
Bitcoin is digital gold that can be transfered on a network based on cryptographic principles. As the real gold it can be both commodity and currency. And like the real gold it can not be... illegal. It simply exists! How do you use it is your own business!

18sNtvUmtW6nrQXfYt1wvviGockSWxhPBX
I.Goldstein
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October 22, 2011, 05:39:05 PM
 #18

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency? 
And like the real gold it can not be... illegal.

About that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
becoin
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October 22, 2011, 05:56:45 PM
 #19

Can we relabel the front page of bitcoin to say crypto-commodity instead of crypto-currency? 
And like the real gold it can not be... illegal.

About that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
Quote
The Executive Order issued by the President yesterday amplifies and particularizes his earlier warnings against hoarding. On March 6, taking advantage of a wartime statute that had not been repealed, he forbade the hoarding 'of gold or silver coin or bullion or currency,' under penalty of $10,000 fine or ten years imprisonment or both.
So, taking advantage of a wartime statute... You have to recognize your country is at war because in a time of war everything can be criminalized. In a war time you'd better have a gun than gold. Paper money is just... paper. Even then the only money you can buy gun is gold. This is what history tells us for gold as money has 6000 years of history!

18sNtvUmtW6nrQXfYt1wvviGockSWxhPBX
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October 22, 2011, 06:29:20 PM
 #20

+1 OP
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