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Author Topic: Markets not reacting to loss of 100s of Millions of $ is disturbing  (Read 5340 times)
XxionxX
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Digital money you say?


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March 01, 2014, 10:35:48 PM
 #61

There will only ever be 21 million bitcoins. For the sake of argument let's say 500k were lost. So ~2.4% of all bitcoins in existence were lost. This is as if you raided the COMEX and dropped the gold into the sun. All bitcoins in existence just became more valuable because of the loss. The well known effect of deflation is in effect. You could even argue that the fiat is locked away in the holders of bitcoin who didn't have their bitcoins on Gox.

I'm not selling and I have your fiat's value locked into my bitcoins. There are plenty of others like me. Gox users tried to get their fiat back when they sold off to ~$100. Mt Gox didn't have the fiat to let them because they couldn't trade it for bitcoins.

I feel for Gox users but the truth of the matter is that I have been enriched by their loss.

OP is hoping that the bitcoins have been stolen because then the thief might sell them off. And he is hoping the thief isn't a hodler. If the thief is then his selloff will never happen.

I will hold till the collapse of the dollar or zero. So will my idealistic brothers.

Gox is a terrible blow but bitcoin don't care. Bitcoin is a fucking honey badger.

FAP Turbo 2.0, the FOREX trading robot which also trades bitcoin!

I had to link it because I love the name. Seriously, that is the real name.
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BittBurger
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March 01, 2014, 11:39:41 PM
 #62

Markets not reacting to gox bankruptcy and loss of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of customer money is not just disturbing but confirms my earlier statements about market manipulation.

People here shrug gox bankruptcy like its nothing, but it is very huge and a major dent in bitcoin public confidence. This event has also delayed any major wall street institution from getting involved until there is a major regulated and licensed US exchange running.

In a way I'm glad this is happening as it confirms my position, as I stated before we will see a major dip soon on or before March 16



Most day traders have absolutely zero awareness of the adoption levels, propogation throughout the world right now, infratructure going up, ATM's being installed, etc, etc etc.

Most day traders' only awareness is the idiotic number on the market graph, and nonsense headlines from mainstream media sources.

This is why most day traders are bewildered that the price stays steady, after the Bankruptcy.  

Because like most people who are just trying to play the Bitcoin market, they don't have a clue what's going on out there, to prop up this price.

A substantial foundation is growing every day.  % of the price consisting of speculation is dropping every day.  This is why the price hasn't moved.  Others know what they're investing in.


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March 02, 2014, 12:24:00 AM
 #63

it's like a tug of war between good news and bad news
supernovax
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March 02, 2014, 12:37:49 AM
 #64

OP is an idiot. Many traders already left gox six months ago. Gox is not bitcoin. Gox is irrelevant now. Do you know much btc the chinese buy every hour?

http://fiatleak.com

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March 02, 2014, 12:43:59 AM
 #65

OP is an idiot. Many traders already left gox six months ago. Gox is not bitcoin. Gox is irrelevant now. Do you know much btc the chinese buy every hour?

Lol... trading back and forth.. is not buying.

theonewhowaskazu
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March 02, 2014, 01:33:35 AM
 #66

trading back and forth..
Gratz you just described Gox.

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March 02, 2014, 02:04:43 AM
 #67

Consider this, if WhatsApp is worth 19 Billion to Facebook and depending on which reports you believe, 10B to Google, how is Bitcoin worth only 3 billion (rough market cap at 300/btc).

There are other instant messenger apps, but their mind/market share of 400 million users was worth a premium.

I personally think Facebook would have been better served by building their own app or buying a smaller startup with better tech and paying $500 to the 1% most interconnected users to switch (cost ~10% of what they paid). If that wasn't enough throw $10 to all of the rest of the users to switch and it's still half as much as they paid and they don't have a poorly developed, security hole ridden pile of legacy code to fix.
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March 02, 2014, 03:35:01 AM
 #68

Consider this, if WhatsApp is worth 19 Billion to Facebook and depending on which reports you believe, 10B to Google, how is Bitcoin worth only 3 billion (rough market cap at 300/btc).

There are other instant messenger apps, but their mind/market share of 400 million users was worth a premium.

I personally think Facebook would have been better served by building their own app or buying a smaller startup with better tech and paying $500 to the 1% most interconnected users to switch (cost ~10% of what they paid). If that wasn't enough throw $10 to all of the rest of the users to switch and it's still half as much as they paid and they don't have a poorly developed, security hole ridden pile of legacy code to fix.

They purchased it for the European marketshare not the software.
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March 02, 2014, 06:00:42 AM
 #69

How is millions of $'s lost?! Get the facts right, the bitcoins are still there, it is just in different hands. Could it be possible the drop in price from 800~ to 500~ only due to the stolen bitcoins being dumped onto the various exchanges?

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March 02, 2014, 10:43:33 AM
 #70

If it turns out that the "lost" 800 kBTC still exist and can be spent by someone, that will definitely push the prices down.
The lost 800 kBTC don't exist. Mt Gox doesn't have them. 800,000 Bitcoins that people thought were held at Mt Gox we now know did not actually exist. The only Bitcoins that do exist were already in circulation, already pushing the price down.


Is this a fact or just a wild speculation?

Gox seems to be claiming that they lost the privkeys to their cold wallet. Good job, if that's the case. A sane company holding that kind of money would have created some kind of multiply-redundant offline solution and spent a lot of money for keeping the privkeys safe. A million dollars a year would not be exaggerating it.

The thing is, Gox's business model was actually valid and sound, and they made quite a bit of money in the past couple of years. Even though they lost some of it, unless the fiat and coins went somewhere, they ought to have had a lot more than the 2kBTC and the $20 million. The BTC holdings should be at least several dozen kBTC.
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March 02, 2014, 03:27:34 PM
 #71

OP is an idiot. Many traders already left gox six months ago. Gox is not bitcoin. Gox is irrelevant now. Do you know much btc the chinese buy every hour?

Lol... trading back and forth.. is not buying.


Buying and selling is not relevant for the value. There are block rewards increasing the amount of coins, and there are lost coins. In my opinion, both of these are also mostly irrelevant. In a grander sense, the number of coins is fixed.

What is happening, is that people around the world are constantly reconsidering what value they place on a coin. That includes people that yesterday valued it to 0 or did not consider it at all, but today value it at something. That is, the market participants are constantly reviewing their valuation.

The price expressed on the market is a result of each of these individual valuation changes.

There are no dollars nor renminbis "going into" bitcoin. This is a false model.

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March 02, 2014, 09:39:43 PM
 #72

Why should people who so their Bitcoins if they were not affected by mtgox? That's like if you lose your car keys and I have to sell my car because of that. Totally irrational.

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March 02, 2014, 09:50:21 PM
 #73

Why should people who so their Bitcoins if they were not affected by mtgox? That's like if you lose your car keys and I have to sell my car because of that. Totally irrational.

It's more like I just witnessed a bad car crash and I decide to stop driving because I am in shock.

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March 04, 2014, 12:31:54 PM
 #74

If it turns out that the "lost" 800 kBTC still exist and can be spent by someone, that will definitely push the prices down.
The lost 800 kBTC don't exist. Mt Gox doesn't have them. 800,000 Bitcoins that people thought were held at Mt Gox we now know did not actually exist. The only Bitcoins that do exist were already in circulation, already pushing the price down.


Is this a fact or just a wild speculation?
It's speculation. But I believe it's the most consistent explanation for the information available -- Gox was believed to have over 700,000 Bitcoins when in fact they didn't have anywhere near that many. This "deficit" accumulated over time.

Quote
Gox seems to be claiming that they lost the privkeys to their cold wallet. Good job, if that's the case. A sane company holding that kind of money would have created some kind of multiply-redundant offline solution and spent a lot of money for keeping the privkeys safe. A million dollars a year would not be exaggerating it.
Where do you see them claiming that?

Quote
The thing is, Gox's business model was actually valid and sound, and they made quite a bit of money in the past couple of years. Even though they lost some of it, unless the fiat and coins went somewhere, they ought to have had a lot more than the 2kBTC and the $20 million. The BTC holdings should be at least several dozen kBTC.
The problem with the Bitcoin exchange business model is that proper security is expensive and annoying. In the past, customers have believed exchanges when they simply say they are secure. So there was a perception that there was no need to spend more money on additional security -- it wouldn't bring you any more business. The problem has been that there has not been a significant financial incentive for exchanges to actually be secure.

If it turns out Gox actually lost access to Bitcoins that are now stuck in wallets nobody has the private keys to, that's a different situation entirely. Either way, it should be good for Bitcoin in the long term.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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