MtGox is lying... probably they stole all the bitcoins

[notung]

If I understand well, a poor protocol implementation could cause MtGox internal system to re-send more than once certain transactions due to the malleability issue.
If this happened, the bitcoins are not lost... somebody (that could be also MtGox BTW) who was "attacking" the protocol by creating the transactions with a different id is the owner of the bitcoins leaked by mtgox.

I guess that it should not be very hard to find duplicates in outgoing transactions with the same amount.

If my assumptions are right then this implies the following:

MtGox is lying when they say that the bitcoins are lost due to a flaw the bitcoin protocol. The bitcoins were stollen from the exchange due to a poor implementation.

On the other hand, it could happen that they had a faulty internal exchange software making disappear bitcoins (destroying the only copy of private keys containing bitcoins). I really cannot believe that this happened. And this will be impossible to prove. They could have stolen all the bitcoins and then say that they lost the private keys.

Too many mistakes/bugs are necessary to loose bitcoins for ever. My personal opinion is that they have stolen the bitcoins and they did shutdown the system to avoid users to recover their transaction ids. Without this is almost impossible to track all the bitcoins that went in/out from MtGox.

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[deltanine]

It is hard for me to fathom that this was an ongoing hack for two years and nobody there noticed it.

We will likely never hear the entire truth.

[brokenchair]

Anyone who thinks that this was not an internal theft, scam, whatever is a moron.
All those people who sit there and keep saying "there is no evidence of a crime," are even dumber.  I know plenty of people that commit crimes every day without evidence, guess what, they still did it.  
All those people who blame the users at Mt Gox are douche bags.  
I could sit here and be just like them, laughing away as fucking crooks rob other people, yet I actually realize that it could happen to any of us, as would any person that actually leaves their computer and socializes with real people.  
All those people who feel bad for Mark, I don't even know what to say.  If you feel bad for a rich scumbag thief, then your fucking out of your mind.
Everyone at Mt Gox is laughing at you fucking jerkoffs that defend them, and bragging to their whores about how they blatantly robbed people and yet people are still defending them.  

[worldtreasurefinders]

I think internal theft is the likely cause as well.  With all the volume they managed, think how easy it would be for any employee to skim a little off the top every day, hell every hour!  And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was Mark himself behind the scam.

[renfr]

It could also be that that the feds seized the coins hence the "temporary unavailability" whom Mark talked about.
It's very unlikely they lost 850k BTC, Mark filed for bankruptcy protection in order to settle down all lawsuits and not cause further trouble.

To me the most likely theory is the seizure by the DHS, anoter possible theory is that Mark faked the hack and hijacked to his own profit all the coins.
But that second theory doesn't work up, Mark already has himself 200k BTC, why would he heist 650k BTC at the risk of being hated by a million customers and have his own life put at stake?

Only a gag order could explain perfectly this situation, the 850k BTC loss claimed is just a coverup to justify the non-payment of bitcoins.
So likely the feds have the coins OR they ordered Mark to not even dare touch them, this fits perfectly woth ghe info he gave on IRC and all what we heard of.

[rikkejohn]

Can people stop calling him "Mark".

[vayvanne]

[...]
So likely the feds have the coins OR they ordered Mark to not even dare touch them, this fits perfectly woth ghe info he gave on IRC and all what we heard of.

If they sized gox wallets what are their reason to do it and then keep it secret? They already have a lot of PR related problems because of Snowden and would not add this one for nothing.
FEDs theory may be his cover as well as for Ukyo scam but I do not see reasons for feds to act like this. May be we should ask them directly?
Hello NSA! Are you involved into this???

[renfr]

[...]
So likely the feds have the coins OR they ordered Mark to not even dare touch them, this fits perfectly woth ghe info he gave on IRC and all what we heard of.

If they sized gox wallets what are their reason to do it and then keep it secret? They already have a lot of PR related problems because of Snowden and would not add this one for nothing.
FEDs theory may be his cover as well as for Ukyo scam but I do not see reasons for feds to act like this. May be we should ask them directly?
Hello NSA! Are you involved into this???

My guess is that it's all related to SR.
They want to traceroute the coins and bust SR dealers whom I guess for most of them had to send ID verification on gox.
They don't want Mark to touch the wallets to ensure that whitewashed cash is not withdrew.
Sounds plausible to me.
Also note that the USG cares nothing about their PR, do you think they cared about PR when DPR was busted?
They never cared about it and will never do.
Snowden is lucky to be in Russia which is known to be hostile to the US or else he'd have been extradited immediatly back to the US if it was another country.

[V4Vendettas]

I trust the FBI less than I trust Mark. Yay my day keeps getting better

[vayvanne]

[...]
Also note that the USG cares nothing about their PR, do you think they cared about PR when DPR was busted?
They never cared about it and will never do.
Snowden is lucky to be in Russia which is known to be hostile to the US or else he'd have been extradited immediatly back to the US if it was another country.

They have to care because a number of reasons including financial. GCHQ cheif had to resign because of bad PR.
In Snowdens case I suppose he is how we say in Russia zaslanny casachok [mishandled cossack if to translate verbatim]. I guess he was the part of operations in Syria but russians did not pecked. That Snowden related PR losses was decent of targets of making impossible cooperation to resolve crisis. But not in this case. FEDs have enough resources to investigate things without ruining mtgox and making bitcoiners hostiles.

[DanielVG]

What about human stupidity?

Someone had to work on the hardware interface and "oops, did I just format the wrong hard drive or something?"

[thelema93]

What about human stupidity?

Someone had to work on the hardware interface and "oops, did I just format the wrong hard drive or something?"

I was thinking that too - they were most probably really working on fixing the malleability bug.
They said they had to re-index the whole blockchain.

The blockchain is made of files ending .dat
What if the idiot just applied his fix to ALL files ending in .dat ? So he accidentally modded all his wallets!!!!!

[Armis]

If I understand well, a poor protocol implementation could cause MtGox internal system to re-send more than once certain transactions due to the malleability issue.
If this happened, the bitcoins are not lost... somebody (that could be also MtGox BTW) who was "attacking" the protocol by creating the transactions with a different id is the owner of the bitcoins leaked by mtgox.

I guess that it should not be very hard to find duplicates in outgoing transactions with the same amount.

If my assumptions are right then this implies the following:

MtGox is lying when they say that the bitcoins are lost due to a flaw the bitcoin protocol. The bitcoins were stollen from the exchange due to a poor implementation.

On the other hand, it could happen that they had a faulty internal exchange software making disappear bitcoins (destroying the only copy of private keys containing bitcoins). I really cannot believe that this happened. And this will be impossible to prove. They could have stolen all the bitcoins and then say that they lost the private keys.

Too many mistakes/bugs are necessary to loose bitcoins for ever. My personal opinion is that they have stolen the bitcoins and they did shutdown the system to avoid users to recover their transaction ids. Without this is almost impossible to track all the bitcoins that went in/out from MtGox.

Which is more important:

1) making the injured parties whole
2) trying to determine if mark is more inept, a thief or both
or
3) prolonging this whole matter to drive down btc values


the cryptocurrency community is better served if it does it's own internal investigation with the perfect evidence and 100% truthful witness -- the blockchain


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492776.0

[MaKii]

I hope this motherf***ers burn in hell !