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Author Topic: MT.GOX's or theft's Bitcoins found?  (Read 674 times)
ifritsultan
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March 01, 2014, 11:47:18 AM
 #1

Hey guys,

I was following the discussion the past 10 days here on [Suspicious link removed] "lost" also a few of my coins.
Since I cant believe, that all these coins just slipped through the loophole of this well-known bug in a short period of time, I was wondering, where all these coins have been moved to...

One fact:
The slipping of coins could only have begun in 2011, where Mark proved, that he had about 424242 bitcoins from his cusomers. There are obviously a lot of witnesses for that.
Here is one link to that operation:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z3cni/proofs_that_gox_have_at_least_200k_btc/
And here is the Wallet of interest:
https://blockchain.info/address/1eHhgW6vquBYhwMPhQ668HPjxTtpvZGPC

So fact is, that he had only 2.5 years to just lose 850k bitcoins, which means, that MtGox must have lost around 1000bitcoins each day (on average). Such an amount of coins does not simply vanish each day, even when the prices were below at 10$.

Now I have tracked the transaction from the mentioned proof above an came to that wallet: https://blockchain.info/de/address/1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV
All the coins which have been presented my Mark Karpeles in 2011 were sent back and finally 40k of them just landed on 1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV.

The last transaction in this wallet i from 6th of Feb., where the messy things begun.


Now my questions to those, who just dont want to troll with stupid comments again:

1) Is it possible, that these coins still belong to GOX? What do you think?
2) Have these coins maybe already been stolen in 2011 and were sitting on that wallet for so long?
3) Why is there no more motion since 6th of February?
4) Maybe all these 40k coins have been just bought by some customer on GOX and transferred to his own wallet. But then we should be able to identify some "cold wallet" in between of the the corresponding transactions, should'nt we?

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bitserve
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March 01, 2014, 02:50:50 PM
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1) Is it possible, that these coins still belong to GOX? What do you think?
2) Have these coins maybe already been stolen in 2011 and were sitting on that wallet for so long?
3) Why is there no more motion since 6th of February?
4) Maybe all these 40k coins have been just bought by some customer on GOX and transferred to his own wallet. But then we should be able to identify some "cold wallet" in between of the the corresponding transactions, should'nt we?



1) Its "possible". I think that either they belong to gox (or Mark Karpeles, which in theory is DIFFERENT THING) or he was already lying and started its fraud at around that time. Anyway, the fact that most of those coins seem to have been static shows that either they are the stash of someone very wealthy which dont even need em yet or somehow lost access to them (temporarily or otherwise).

Considering the date it may also be KnightMB's stash, Finnley's "legacy",... maybe even sturle's... who knows.

In any case, we will be paying very close attention on any move of those coins in the future. And also there is an ongoing effort to compile as much data from different sources to get a better understanding of the whereabouts of these coins.

2) If I had to bet I would say they have always belong to same person/entity who has a bigger stash and haven't needed to use them yet. If they were theft at some time... We are still waiting for MK to report that theft, he hasn't.

Also... who in their right senses would have bought that stash and not move em to another address where only he has the private key? Unless that transaction was in fact the sale and he haven't moved since. Not the most plausible explanation.

3) You are mistaking in considering the recent "moves". It's all dust, I can also send some smallish btc to that addresses but that doesnt mean anything. It hasn't really "moved" since the time it was funded on 2011-11-16 05:59:08.

4) A lot of maybes are possible at this time. It's Karpeles which at this time should explain whose BTC's are those and why did he used them to "back up" his claims of solvency at that time. Whatever the explanation, he is or was lying. Pick your choice.

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March 01, 2014, 03:51:23 PM
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The slipping of coins could only have begun in 2011, where Mark proved, that he had about 424242 bitcoins from his cusomers. There are obviously a lot of witnesses for that.

This fact only proves Mark controlled the address from which 424242.42424242 were sent. This fact does not prove Mark controlled the address to which 424242.42424242 coins were sent.
ifritsultan
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March 02, 2014, 09:23:29 AM
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In any case, we will be paying very close attention on any move of those coins in the future. And also there is an ongoing effort to compile as much data from different sources to get a better understanding of the whereabouts of these coins.

Who is "we"? Are you some part of a legal constitution, or are you meaning the customers/crowd/observers?
And have you already been aware of this wallet, which I mentioned in my first post?

4) A lot of maybes are possible at this time. It's Karpeles which at this time should explain whose BTC's are those and why did he used them to "back up" his claims of solvency at that time. Whatever the explanation, he is or was lying. Pick your choice.

I do not understand, why there is still no clarification about the situation. Do you think, that it has low priority for the Japanese Bank surveillance? Will it therefore maybe never uncovered, what really happened? This is a very awkward situation and makes people kind of more and more agressive....
But maybe it will just need some time, until we will get all these informations.

This fact only proves Mark controlled the address from which 424242.42424242 were sent. This fact does not prove Mark controlled the address to which 424242.42424242 coins were sent.

Of course! As I have also stressed, those coins could have been bought by some person at a later time.
But still: MtGOX had all these coins at that moment, which means, that the transaction-"bug" had not been used until that point. Additionally, one can clearly resolve all wallets, which have been used in the chain of transaction. And since it was a huge amount of bitcoins, there should be some cold storage in between this chain... So maybe we can already identify by our own, whether there are still coins left, or whether they have all been stolen.
bitserve
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March 04, 2014, 12:33:24 AM
 #5

In any case, we will be paying very close attention on any move of those coins in the future. And also there is an ongoing effort to compile as much data from different sources to get a better understanding of the whereabouts of these coins.


Who is "we"? Are you some part of a legal constitution, or are you meaning the customers/crowd/observers?
And have you already been aware of this wallet, which I mentioned in my first post?

English is a foreign language to me. When I said "we" I meant the customers/crowd/observers/legitimate parties... but I am not part (in this matter) of a "legal constitution" at this time.

Yes, I have been aware of that "wallet", and have already expressed my opinion about it.

Quote
4) A lot of maybes are possible at this time. It's Karpeles which at this time should explain whose BTC's are those and why did he used them to "back up" his claims of solvency at that time. Whatever the explanation, he is or was lying. Pick your choice.

I do not understand, why there is still no clarification about the situation. Do you think, that it has low priority for the Japanese Bank surveillance? Will it therefore maybe never uncovered, what really happened? This is a very awkward situation and makes people kind of more and more agressive....
But maybe it will just need some time, until we will get all these informations.


I meant that no claims/explanations given until now are backed up by ANY evidence that could sustain them. In fact I mean, that this is unaceptable and they will be required to do so. It's a must as soon as the first criminal charges are pressed (yes, I assume there will be criminal investigation unless Japan laws are much more fucked than I could even imagine).

This fact only proves Mark controlled the address from which 424242.42424242 were sent. This fact does not prove Mark controlled the address to which 424242.42424242 coins were sent.


Of course! As I have also stressed, those coins could have been bought by some person at a later time.
But still: MtGOX had all these coins at that moment, which means, that the transaction-"bug" had not been used until that point. Additionally, one can clearly resolve all wallets, which have been used in the chain of transaction. And since it was a huge amount of bitcoins, there should be some cold storage in between this chain... So maybe we can already identify by our own, whether there are still coins left, or whether they have all been stolen.

I don't think those coins were bought at a "later time". Maybe that was the "sale" transaction itself, but I don't think anyone would buy them some time later and NOT move them to an address which private key is only known to them. That wouldn't make any sense.

In fact, I would bet those coins never changed hands.

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Jeronimus
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March 04, 2014, 12:51:58 AM
 #6

4) Maybe all these 40k coins have been just bought by some customer on GOX and transferred to his own wallet. But then we should be able to identify some "cold wallet" in between of the the corresponding transactions, should'nt we?


I think this is a good point.

The 424k certainly were sent to some cold wallets after he provided proof. While not likely, it is certainly possible someone bought that many BTC from Gox in one go, but then, as you said, we should see some in between cold storage.

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