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Author Topic: mtgox requires physical identification  (Read 9656 times)
tvbcof
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October 23, 2011, 11:45:04 PM
 #21

I doubt that any exchange who is big enough to pay their expenses will be able to operate under the kind of anonymity that would be desirable to a lot of us.

My projection is that when anonymity is required, fiat<->btc will be occurring on a face-to-face basis and at a significant discount over the exchange rates.  And I doubt that it will be long before that is considered to be a criminal activity if it is not already.

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October 24, 2011, 12:38:29 AM
 #22

I doubt that any exchange who is big enough to pay their expenses will be able to operate under the kind of anonymity that would be desirable to a lot of us.

My projection is that when anonymity is required, fiat<->btc will be occurring on a face-to-face basis and at a significant discount over the exchange rates.  And I doubt that it will be long before that is considered to be a criminal activity if it is not already.


Are you saying people will pay less to get coin without giving info to an exchange?

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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October 24, 2011, 12:42:16 AM
 #23

I doubt that any exchange who is big enough to pay their expenses will be able to operate under the kind of anonymity that would be desirable to a lot of us.

My projection is that when anonymity is required, fiat<->btc will be occurring on a face-to-face basis and at a significant discount over the exchange rates.  And I doubt that it will be long before that is considered to be a criminal activity if it is not already.


Are you saying people will pay less to get coin without giving info to an exchange?

I think it's the other way around, meeting face to face to purchase bitcoins with cash immediately is a premium service over using an exchange.
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October 24, 2011, 12:45:50 AM
 #24

I was initially very disappointed to have to submit my iD... but you know what... it's a compliance issue that will not go away - a cost of doing business in USD set by big governments and big brother... It's not a bad thing for Bitcoin, but eventually a good thing because soon everyone will see that once you're in BTC, you can do whatever the fuck you want to do with your Bitcoin and be free from a fascist government snooping into your financial affairs.

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October 24, 2011, 12:48:57 AM
 #25

I guess as mtgox gets bigger, they are subjected to more regulations, I doubt it is their fault and I also doubt that they will wait to inconvenience their users if they can help it.
tvbcof
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October 24, 2011, 01:21:38 AM
 #26

I doubt that any exchange who is big enough to pay their expenses will be able to operate under the kind of anonymity that would be desirable to a lot of us.

My projection is that when anonymity is required, fiat<->btc will be occurring on a face-to-face basis and at a significant discount over the exchange rates.  And I doubt that it will be long before that is considered to be a criminal activity if it is not already.


Are you saying people will pay less to get coin without giving info to an exchange?

Other way around, sorta, but I did not say it clearly.

I'm saying that if I am going bring something of value (cash, gold, etc) to meet face to face with someone who is so concerned about anonymity they won't use something like Mt. Gox or Tradehill, it is very possible that I am meeting with a criminal.  That is a risk that I'm going to need to deal with in various ways so it will have to be worth my while and I'll want a discount over what I could get coin for on an exchange.

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October 24, 2011, 04:09:22 AM
 #27

I don't want to specifically discount any bad experience anyone's had with MTGOX, but I do feel the need to state that I've put about $10k through MTGOX since before the "incident" and I have had zero problems.

I did neglect to put a MTGOX customer number on a dwolla transfer and my money was "lost" for a few days - but that was entirely my fault. As soon as MTGOX customer service found the transfer, it was available to me for trading.

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October 24, 2011, 06:36:59 AM
 #28

Most people in my BTC pool have had issues with MtGox cancelling their accounts for similar issues as what has already been described. Even after faxing identification, it seems about only 50% manage to retrieve their money. The others just get excuse after excuse, and play the infinite ticket game.

But people have been talking about this issue for months. People have been sharing their issues on this forum for months. And people keep using MtGox?...  Huh

I didn't realise until shortly after signing up that MtGox hosts this forum. Talk about a monopoly. lol. This forum is ok for open discussion, but I wouldn't trust any PM's being private - so be careful what information you give to others on this board via PM. Best to go to an instant messenger or some other offsite form of communication to discuss transactions.

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October 24, 2011, 07:05:50 AM
 #29

Even after faxing identification, it seems about only 50% manage to retrieve their money

I gave him international passport, which have translations to english (within the document itself).
and domestic bill (as they requested).
Of course the bill was in domestic language.

I received (2011-Oct-24) an email:
Quote
We regret to inform you that the identification documentation you have submitted has been reviewed, and your request has been temporarily denied.
Reasons(s)
Submitted documentation must be in English or Latin script, and legible. Where documents are not in Latin script, they must be translated and a notarised copy provided.
We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, but it would be greatly appreciated if you resubmit the requested clarification(s) above.
Otherwise, if you would like to make further enquiries in relation to this, please do not hesitate to contact Mt.Gox Support.

tvbcof
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October 24, 2011, 07:30:05 AM
 #30


I'm doing an interview with Mark Karples on BitTalk.TV regarding these ridiculous issues, claims of insolvency, etc etc. Would you mind messaging me and providing me with the proof of this claim?

P.S. posting it here because people deserve to know what I'm doing and MtGox deserves to know that people are watching.

I'm baffled at the continued support for Bruce Wagner's show by Mt. Gox (as is claimed by Bruce at least.)  It would be interesting to hear some discussion of that if you guys have the time.

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October 24, 2011, 07:43:11 AM
 #31

I doubt that any exchange who is big enough to pay their expenses will be able to operate under the kind of anonymity that would be desirable to a lot of us.

I understand that. But it should be made upfront. If they need IDs, that should be clear from the moment you register in the site. They cannot let you deposit money and then hold it until you comply to their terms. That's criminal. Those who did not agree to provide IDs should be given a chance to withdraw all their money. And if then MtGox wants to demand IDs before they start trading again, it's fine.
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October 24, 2011, 08:17:14 PM
 #32

What a sad story, bearing in mind the nature of Bitcoin Sad
BitterTea
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October 24, 2011, 08:22:03 PM
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What a sad story, bearing in mind the nature of Bitcoin Sad

In what way is this the nature of Bitcoin?
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October 24, 2011, 08:35:08 PM
 #34

In a way of the biggest bitcoin exchange "mtgox requires physical identification"...while one of the main points of Bitcoin is total privacy :-/
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October 24, 2011, 08:55:37 PM
 #35

I doubt that any exchange who is big enough to pay their expenses will be able to operate under the kind of anonymity that would be desirable to a lot of us.

I understand that. But it should be made upfront. If they need IDs, that should be clear from the moment you register in the site. They cannot let you deposit money and then hold it until you comply to their terms. That's criminal. Those who did not agree to provide IDs should be given a chance to withdraw all their money. And if then MtGox wants to demand IDs before they start trading again, it's fine.

This is pretty much the feeling of all who live in the free world, which is why Paypal has had its ass handed to it in court over and over again.

Actually PayPal had its ass handed to it over not being compliant with financial services regulations many times in the early days.  Like the exchanges, they argued that they were a new and different type of services and that the usual regulations didn't apply to them because...PayPal.

The Bitcoin exchanges for some reason thought that their withdrawal limits would exempt them from AML compliance requirements.  They should probably sue any accountant or lawyer who gave them such advice because there were never any valid grounds to believe that.

Terms of Service and User Agreements don't trump the law.  If they're required by their banks to verify customer IDs, then they either comply with that or their accounts get frozen.  Allowing customers to withdraw anonymously isn't going to be an option in many cases.  It's certainly not criminal to require people to comply with the law before they can access their funds.  And "I lost money because MtGox complied with the law" isn't likely to fly in a civil suit either.

Quote
In a way of the biggest bitcoin exchange "mtgox requires physical identification"...while one of the main points of Bitcoin is total privacy.

Privacy and anonymity are not the same thing. 


All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
ArsenShnurkov
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October 26, 2011, 05:37:14 AM
 #36

I upload notarized translations (that cost me ~30 BTC equivalent as a reward to the translator and notarius) and reopen ticket.
Ticket was closed with comment:
Quote
Unfortunately, we are not the AML team. Please contact aml@mtgox.com if you have questions about getting your account reviewed.
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
Oct-26 2011 10:44
I wrote a letter to that email address.
Start waiting for five days.
bitflower
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October 26, 2011, 06:02:57 AM
 #37

I upload notarized translations (that cost me ~30 BTC equivalent as a reward to the translator and notarius) and reopen ticket.
Ticket was closed with comment:
Quote
Unfortunately, we are not the AML team. Please contact aml@mtgox.com if you have questions about getting your account reviewed.
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
Oct-26 2011 10:44
I wrote a letter to that email address.
Start waiting for five days.

We check AML emails as well as process applications daily. You should be receiving a response from our AML team within 24 hours of submission.

Jasmine
Mt.Gox Support
tvbcof
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October 26, 2011, 06:35:15 AM
 #38

I upload notarized translations (that cost me ~30 BTC equivalent as a reward to the translator and notarius) and reopen ticket.
Ticket was closed with comment:
Quote
Unfortunately, we are not the AML team. Please contact aml@mtgox.com if you have questions about getting your account reviewed.
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
Oct-26 2011 10:44
I wrote a letter to that email address.
Start waiting for five days.

Looking at BitcoinCharts.com, it seems like Mt. Gox RUB exchange stopped on the 24th.  I'm not a customer so I don't follow their boards and I suppose it has been announced somewhere there, but I didn't notice discussion of it in this forum.

Then I see that you, presumably a Russian, seem to be getting a fair amount of grief from Mt. Gox on this.

It seems to at least one conspiratorial minded person (namely, me) that perhaps there is some desire to cut out the Russian block from as much of the Bitcoin fun as practical.  Could it be that the amount of financial visibility within the Russian sphere is limited enough to make it worthwhile to exert significant pressure on Mt. Gox to cut them out?  Or perhaps that the user base within that sphere could sustain Bitcoin even if it were effectively quashed in the West?

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October 26, 2011, 08:27:43 AM
 #39

In a way of the biggest bitcoin exchange "mtgox requires physical identification"...while one of the main points of Bitcoin is total privacy :-/

You guys need to get over this. Seriously. If you want to transact with real world cash, you are going to have to follow real world rules. And one of the main points of Bitcoin is not total privacy, it is pseudo-anonymity. There is a difference, and it's fairly big.

Mt.Gox may have been far from perfect in handling this situation, but it is a growing pain of a totally new economy. It will become easier to convert BTC/USD/other in the future if Bitcoin increases in popularity. You gotta roll with the punches for now and allow Mt.Gox to work better at streamlining this process so other people in the future can benefit from those growing pains.

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October 26, 2011, 08:52:24 AM
 #40

one conspiratorial minded person (namely, me)

I have one more conpiracy idea - the summer rise of bitcoins was caused by the CIA funding.
Now they want to track their dollars, which flow out of MtGOX.

If you want to transact with real world cash

I entered BTC, and I want to withdraw BTC.

Actually I was needed ~400 BTC for a project, but I already miss the opportunity, because all shares (FPGA.contract) was sold out...

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