Buy 1 ounce gold. End Giant Bank's $15,000,000,000,000 cartel

[cellard]

I have done my part with gold and silver.  I have more than I can carry so I stopped purchasing.  

What about this ??




That is worldwide people's trust in Gold because some $40,000,000,000,000 is invested in Gold.

Imagine how much sense it would make if you switched the gold bullion in there for Trezors, USB pendrives or anything that could contain bitcoins, and said Bitcoin wallets wouldn't be encrypted with a password at all! How safe would you feel about your investment?

That is exactly what i see there. Some guy which you are supposed to trust to hold your gold for you. And then when you need to move your wealth, you will need to hope that the guy driving the truck/ship/plane doesn't pull a heist on you and runs with the money.

Why bother with this risk when you can just hold it in bitcoins? I would like a reasonable goldbug argument for this very obvious point for once. I haven't seen anything convincing thus far.

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[First77]

Your obsession with gold and silver still continues, and the amount of nonsense that you manage to write is constantly increases. Do you ever know what number you copy/paste from somewhere? It is 40 trillion $, and last year gold reserve at 1250$ per ounce was in total 7.5 trillion $.

See the picture I posted of many many 5 kilos gold bars at a storage location. Just think how much 2 Olympic sized swimming pools filled with those Gold bars will look like. Total Gold available worldwide $40 Trillion.

[markj113]

See the picture I posted of many many 5 kilos gold bars at a storage location.

They are not 5kg bars they are 400oz good delivery bars (12.5kg)

[markj113]

Imagine how much sense it would make if you switched the gold bullion in there for Trezors, USB pendrives or anything that could contain bitcoins, and said Bitcoin wallets wouldn't be encrypted with a password at all! How safe would you feel about your investment?

That is exactly what i see there. Some guy which you are supposed to trust to hold your gold for you. And then when you need to move your wealth, you will need to hope that the guy driving the truck/ship/plane doesn't pull a heist on you and runs with the money.

Why bother with this risk when you can just hold it in bitcoins? I would like a reasonable goldbug argument for this very obvious point for once. I haven't seen anything convincing thus far.

And you are trusting in bitcoins encryption algorithm and complete infrastructure inc. internet, power etc.  (Nation cyber warfare could crack the encryption and drain a countries entire financial reserves instantly, imagine china cracked the bitcoin algorithm and took all American's financial reserves one night).  Anything held on a computer network is exposed and vunerable.

You are also relying on the devs not doing anything stupid or unpopular with the software as its completely out of your control.

You are relying on unregulated exchanges not getting hacked or the owners doing a runner with your money when you wish to cash out - not a good track record.

You are relying on the government not coming down hard on crypto and outlawing it before you get a chance to cash out.

you are praying Satoshi isnt defrosted from his cryo chamber one day and he decides to cash in the lot and go on a hooker and coke binge.

You are relying on those electronic devices holding billions or trillions not degrading and failing over time, countries need to hold wealth in centuries not years (backups would be a pain in the ass)

Gold is an element and no matter what it remains gold.  Bitcoin is technology, technology becomes obsolete and is superceeded extremely quickly.

Gold in your hand removes all third party risk.

[cellard]

And you are trusting in bitcoins encryption algorithm and complete infrastructure inc. internet, power etc.  (Nation cyber warfare could crack the encryption and drain a countries entire financial reserves instantly, imagine china cracked the bitcoin algorithm and took all American's financial reserves one night).  Anything held on a computer network is exposed and vunerable.

If SHA-256 gets bruteforced somehow, then the entire economy is at risk. Chances are that the databases that people are keeping gold track records with also use SHA-256 for the passwords, so they could change ownership records. Pretty much all the banking industry relies on that, and all kind of encryption in all kind of devices. Also we can change the algorithm if the time comes.

But are you saying that there are bigger chances at SHA-256 cracked than your gold custodian getting robbed/doing an inside job?

You are also relying on the devs not doing anything stupid or unpopular with the software as its completely out of your control.

You can use many other clients beside Bitcoin Core, also they will not do anything stupid, there is no incentive in doing so, most devs hold tons of coins themselves, they are interested in doing good to keep going richer.

You are relying on unregulated exchanges not getting hacked or the owners doing a runner with your money when you wish to cash out - not a good track record.

Same problem with gold. If you want to cash out you are trusting third parties. As time goes on there are many professional choices with good liquidity to choose from. Also the end game is that you will be able to buy your villa paying with BTC directly so no need to cash out.

You are relying on the government not coming down hard on crypto and outlawing it before you get a chance to cash out.

Government doing that would only legitmize BTC since they would show they are impotent. Would be the obligatory crash then recovery after. Also read above. And also don't forget Executive Order 6102.

There will also always be Bitcoin-friendly governments due simple game theory, so just move there.

you are praying Satoshi isnt defrosted from his cryo chamber one day and he decides to cash in the lot and go on a hooker and coke binge.

If satoshi is really some guy out there and is still alive, he is smart enough to know he can never move these coins ever again, because everyone knows what these coins mean, he would be tracked and extorted. He probably allocated a lot of coins that people aren't aware of not coming from the obvious early mining period, he should be well off in any case. No incentives to do anything stupid.

You are relying on those electronic devices holding billions or trillions not degrading and failing over time, countries need to hold wealth in centuries not years (backups would be a pain in the ass)

This is not a problem anymore with the latest efforts in optical media. Milleniatta’s M-Disc DVD and Blu-ray recordable discs are rated for 1,000 years, and non-recordable up to 10,000 years. Of course this is theoretical but governments have made rigorous tests. Their data must be preserved too, so they are very interested in ways to store digital data as well. It is a non issue, and for Bitcoin users if you are paranoid just make a yearly backup of your stuff and you are set.

Gold in your hand removes all third party risk.

And includes a ton of risks the moment you need to move it across any border or to hide it under a government that went full Nixon and is on search and destroy mode (and with 2018 technology your bullions will be easily found).

[markj113]

Cashing out gold is the not the same as bitcoin.  You walk into a dealer and walk out with cash or have it transfered into your account as I have done so previously.  You never lose control of your funds as you do with crypto.  Find a MtGox equivalet for physical gold holders.

Executive Order 6102 - We dont all live in the US, the last time it was used only a small amount of gold was handed over.  Banking is also a different beast now, a governement will just initiate a banking holiday then do a cyprus style haircut rather than chasing individuals around they believe may have some gold.

satoshi - may be an individual may be not but someone out there controls the private keys to those coins and they could become active at any time.

Gold across borders - depends where you live, if you live in a stable country not much to worry about.  Most people dont buy gold and crypto ready for the zombie apocalypse.  Special forces and pilots in the UK are issued gold sovereigns as part of the their survival kit should they need to bribe officials or locals if caught behind enemey lines - would like to see you pull that off with BTC

With 2018 technology your bullions will be easily found - Not sure how you work that one out.  You buy gold cash from a 3rd party and there is no paper trail or no public ledger detailing holdings.  With 2018 technolgy every website you visit could be logging your I.P address and algorithms searching for keywords like bitcoin and building a nice big database of crypto holders.  Gold transactions can be completed totally off grid like they have been the last few thousand years.

[First77]

And includes a ton of risks the moment you need to move it across any border or to hide it under a government that went full Nixon and is on search and destroy mode (and with 2018 technology your bullions will be easily found).

With top and reputed gold and silver/bullion dealers who have storage vaults in many countries/overseas, you can store your gold and silver bars and coins outside the banking system in your full name [includes insurance]. you can access your account and buy and sell gold and silver anytime you want.

These are reputed international gold and silver/bullion dealers. One of them I know has $2,000,000,000 worth of customers bullion.

[pobeditelvezde]

I do not consider that gold is a good asset for an investment right now. I think we will see gold beneath 1000$ quite soon. I am wondering how do you know that gold will go up in the near future? In my opinion gold may be an excellent asset in case of a long term investment when you are ready to hold an asset an year and more.

[markj113]

I do not consider that gold is a good asset for an investment right now. I think we will see gold beneath 1000$ quite soon. I am wondering how do you know that gold will go up in the near future? In my opinion gold may be an excellent asset in case of a long term investment when you are ready to hold an asset an year and more.

A year is not a long term investment.  I would say 3-5 years are mid term with 5 years plus long term.

Fundamentals are good for gold but as with everything else it is all manipulated.  All I know for sure if precious metals and BTC are both better than any fiat right now.

Just have to sit tight and wait for when the big players decide to pump and make some big money.

[First77]

A year is not a long term investment.  I would say 3-5 years are mid term with 5 years plus long term.

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Nakamato Satoshi [bitcoin creator]

Bitcoin has failed as a digital currency, bitcoin anonymity is for hackers and criminals also. Looks like Bitcoin is going to $600

[buwaytress]

Pointless to "buy gold". All these banks and giants you speak off can do 10 times what any single person here can, in the blink of an eye. They don't even need access to physical gold. One phone call or email can get them any amount of paper gold via Comex probably at a deep discount too. No one cares that they're not even 1% backed by physical gold. That's how bad it's gotten for gold, and that's what futures could do to Bitcoin one day, who knows?

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Nakamato Satoshi [bitcoin creator]

Bitcoin has failed as a digital currency, bitcoin anonymity is for hackers and criminals also. Looks like Bitcoin is going to $600

We're only halfway to that 20-yr mark, my friend. Care to tell me why Bitcoin has failed if you're here on this forum talking to thousands of users, and I'm here still earning and spending in Bitcoin?

$600 wouldn't mean it's failed, simply that it's returned to 2016 levels. Small timeframe in the big picture.

Hackers and criminals? That is soooo 2015.

[markj113]

Pointless to "buy gold". All these banks and giants you speak off can do 10 times what any single person here can, in the blink of an eye. They don't even need access to physical gold. One phone call or email can get them any amount of paper gold via Comex probably at a deep discount too. No one cares that they're not even 1% backed by physical gold. That's how bad it's gotten for gold, and that's what futures could do to Bitcoin one day, who knows?

Kind of like bots on a crypto exchange then.

Paper gold is leveraged at over 500:1 to real gold, this has suppressed the price.  At some point the number of people wanting physical delivery will increase then the house of cards will fall.

[First77]

Paper gold is leveraged at over 500:1 to real gold, this has suppressed the price.  At some point the number of people wanting physical delivery will increrase then the house of cards will fall.

I know a reputed Swiss forex trader who gave profits for 10 years but in the 11th year he gave the biggest loss. He has 35 years of experience in forex trading.

A wrong trade or big loss making trade in paper gold and those traders and giant banks will go bankrupt or they will go back to 300 square feet apartment/house

[cellard]

Cashing out gold is the not the same as bitcoin.  You walk into a dealer and walk out with cash or have it transfered into your account as I have done so previously.  You never lose control of your funds as you do with crypto.  Find a MtGox equivalet for physical gold holders.

And in the future you will not need to cash out, you will be able to buy anything you want with BTC, so you can move seamlessly to whatever jurisdiction is friendlier to you. Also physical cash will most likely disappear in the future.

Executive Order 6102 - We dont all live in the US, the last time it was used only a small amount of gold was handed over.  Banking is also a different beast now, a governement will just initiate a banking holiday then do a cyprus style haircut rather than chasing individuals around they believe may have some gold.

It doesn't matter where you live. Gold is shit because you are stuck into your local community, if you need to move you need to carry it and you be assaulted/stopped by authorities etc. It's really nonsense to go through with that when you can have BTC and have a peace of mind that they will not take it away from you.

satoshi - may be an individual may be not but someone out there controls the private keys to those coins and they could become active at any time.

Satoshi is no more of an issue than huge gold holders dumping, and most likely they will dump some gold to buy BTC in the future. Satoshi most likely is dead if he was a real person and will 100% die if he is stupid enough to move coins so what's the point. Genesis mined coins are useless.

Gold across borders - depends where you live, if you live in a stable country not much to worry about.  Most people dont buy gold and crypto ready for the zombie apocalypse.  Special forces and pilots in the UK are issued gold sovereigns as part of the their survival kit should they need to bribe officials or locals if caught behind enemey lines - would like to see you pull that off with BTC

With 2018 technology your bullions will be easily found - Not sure how you work that one out.  You buy gold cash from a 3rd party and there is no paper trail or no public ledger detailing holdings.  With 2018 technolgy every website you visit could be logging your I.P address and algorithms searching for keywords like bitcoin and building a nice big database of crypto holders.  Gold transactions can be completed totally off grid like they have been the last few thousand years.

It doesn't take a zombie apocalypse, just currency problems and they will start strengthening rules about owning gold, so if you own any relevant amounts it becomes a chore and you are better off with BTC. Also during currency crisis governments will turn into zombies that will eat your money instead of your brain, you aren't safe with gold.

As far as logging and so on, just use VPN or Tor. Gold transactions can't be completed totally off the grid outside of local person to person transaction which means most likely you don't have much money to worry about liquidity. Someone that is rich isn't going to be able to live off a local economy. Bitcoin is better specially for the very rich for rather obvious reasons. It's not the same carrying a couple bullion than needing to store a bunch of them trusting some 3rd party somewhere and when you need it it will become a huge problem moving it or doing anything. So dumb to keep it in gold vs bitcoin sorry.

[markj113]

And in the future you will not need to cash out, you will be able to buy anything you want with BTC, so you can move seamlessly to whatever jurisdiction is friendlier to you. Also physical cash will most likely disappear in the future.

Shame real world use of bitcoin is going backwards and not forwards, many retailers that previously accepted BTC now do not (expedia, reddit, the bitcoin conference, microsoft, stripe, steam, the list goes on and on).  Also many of the remaining ones do not accept Bitcoin they accept fiat via a 3rd party like bitpay.  Bitcoin has just become a speculative commodity.

It doesn't matter where you live. Gold is shit because you are stuck into your local community, if you need to move you need to carry it and you be assaulted/stopped by authorities etc. It's really nonsense to go through with that when you can have BTC and have a peace of mind that they will not take it away from you.

Well thousands of years of history disagree, people have always moved around while holding precious metals.  This is also a unicorn myth quoted by crypto fans.  How many people do you know have had to drop everything and fled to another country recently.  How would you access your crypto funds on the move when your phone runs out of charge or is stolen or broken?

Satoshi is no more of an issue than huge gold holders dumping, and most likely they will dump some gold to buy BTC in the future. Satoshi most likely is dead if he was a real person and will 100% die if he is stupid enough to move coins so what's the point. Genesis mined coins are useless.

Just an opinion based on zero facts, no national banks or countries have dumped gold to buy bitcoin.  The opposite is actually true, most are hording increasing amounts of gold.  The big gold dumps are paper gold not physical metal, sooner or later the paper ponzi will fail.

Gold transactions can't be completed totally off the grid outside of local person to person transaction which means most likely you don't have much money to worry about liquidity. Someone that is rich isn't going to be able to live off a local economy. Bitcoin is better specially for the very rich for rather obvious reasons. It's not the same carrying a couple bullion than needing to store a bunch of them trusting some 3rd party somewhere and when you need it it will become a huge problem moving it or doing anything. So dumb to keep it in gold vs bitcoin sorry.

How do you buy bitcoin without a paper trail, using a bank transfer into an exchange (where you have completed KYC so all personal info on file), I.P's logged all addresses in the blockchain history tied to you for money in and out.  In the UK you can walk into any bullion dealer and buy £5k in a single transaction or £10k a year without providing any identifcation.  Spread your money around different dealers and there is no paper trail.


I stick by original statement - short to mid term there is money to be made in crypto.  Long term you will lose your ass and if you dont take some profit and buy hard assets on the way of which ever type you prefer your an idiot.

[First77]

We're only halfway to that 20-yr mark, my friend. Care to tell me why Bitcoin has failed if you're here on this forum talking to thousands of users, and I'm here still earning and spending in Bitcoin?

expedia.com removed bitcoin as payment option. I read that shops/stores sell Bitcoins immediately after they get it as payment from fear of loss from price price change

[maculeth]

it turns out gold can also go down. I am thinking of investing in the land, because land prices will never go down, and the long-term project for housing is very potential.

[markj113]

it turns out gold can also go down. I am thinking of investing in the land, because land prices will never go down, and the long-term project for housing is very potential.

Everything goes up and down including property and land. 

[First77]

Paper gold is leveraged at over 500:1 to real gold, this has suppressed the price.  At some point the number of people wanting physical delivery will increase then the house of cards will fall.

Paper gold will be crushed because $5,000,000,000,000 will be released from the stock markets. Apple inc., Google, facebook, amazon going back to $200 billion. Now these 4 companies are worth $2.5 trillion.

[el kaka22]

A year is not a long term investment.  I would say 3-5 years are mid term with 5 years plus long term.

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Nakamato Satoshi [bitcoin creator]

Bitcoin has failed as a digital currency, bitcoin anonymity is for hackers and criminals also. Looks like Bitcoin is going to $600

We cannot say it has failed yet until it finally fails as a digital currency. It still serves as, and if the issue we see right now is basically as a result of scaling, it does not mean it won't change eventually. I am never against gold as it interests me to diversify a lot though and since gold has been in a downtrend for a while, it seems like a very good opportunity to have stored up some for the long run.

Nevertheless, this does not mean we cannot still attune to the fact that satoshi said, large volume transaction or no volume, which means we can still stick with the large volume transaction in the long.