The cancer that is Ponzi

[Vod]

Looks like this complaint is falling on deaf ears. The amount of complicity for scamming on this forum is incredible.

I spend a bit of time on these forums fighting scams, and there are others that spend way more time than me.

I don't bother with the ponzis because they are so obvious.  I would rather spend my limited time exposing the scams that are more tricky, complex or misleading.

If a person is going to be scammed with something so obvious, maybe they need to learn the hard way?   

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[DeadwoodDan]

Honestly, if people are dumb enough to willingly join a Ponzi scheme thinking they'll somehow outwit it, or invest in a bitcoin IPO thinking they'll make millions, or send real money to a bitcoin exchange, let them.  People should learn what Bitcoin is, and losing all your savings in a Ponzi or bitcoin stock or a bitcoin exchange is a good lesson.

[singula]

I guess just words - if you present Ponzi as a game (while properly explaining its mechanism and informing that you can lose) and not as investment.

In the same manner you can present for example a bet also as an investment (you earn 100% of your money in only a day. Ok, team B must win .... but hey, 100%! Err ... good investment!)

Or if you sell some item, only words can then distinguish between honest sale (item with honest description) and scam (item performing much worse than what was promised, etc ....)

So ... words, words and words .... that is IMHO the borderline between game and scam for Ponzis.

[surfer43]

Where you'll see scamming most often:

when the service takes 1 hour to start up.
when the service will receive revenue hours after starting.
when there is no repercussion for stealing all the money (the service can be restarted easily)

So, 90% of the time at minimum this will be a scam.

Where you'll see scamming less often:

when the service takes a longer time to gain users.
when the service will not receive much revenue until it is trusted.
when the service looses users and therefore revenue after scamming people;

The former is Ponzi, the latter is general gambling websites.

[DeadwoodDan]

Where you'll see scamming most often:

when the service takes 1 hour to start up.
when the service will receive revenue hours after starting.
when there is no repercussion for stealing all the money (the service can be restarted easily)

So, 90% of the time at minimum this will be a scam.

Where you'll see scamming less often:

when the service takes a longer time to gain users.
when the service will not receive much revenue until it is trusted.
when the service looses users and therefore revenue after scamming people;

The former is Ponzi, the latter is general gambling websites.

OKAY SURFER THANKS FOR THIS CLASSIFICATION also how in the hell did you arrive at 90% up there can you share your data pls

[surfer43]

also how in the hell did you arrive at 90% up there can you share your data pls

Code:

srand(time(NULL));
int r = rand() % 101;

[Frankie]

Compare that to the many dishonest de facto ponzi schemes I see advertised here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=159.0

You forgot the one you see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=1.0

I do not agree with this logic, I'm simply extending it.

Satoshi's such a scammer! Oh wait, no.

Do you deny that the subforum is filled with altcoins with little innovation, hyped in IPOs, given largely to insiders at launched, eventually pumped and cynically dumped? How is that sort of behavior less "cancerous" than a Ponzi scheme correctly labelled as a Ponzi scheme, posted in the basically-appropriate gambling forum?

[Bit_Happy]

Frankie has a good point about most new alt's being really bad.

....
Satoshi's such a scammer! Oh wait, no.

Do you deny that the subforum is filled with altcoins with little innovation, hyped in IPOs, given largely to insiders at launched, eventually pumped and cynically dumped? How is that sort of behavior less "cancerous" than a Ponzi scheme correctly labelled as a Ponzi scheme, posted in the basically-appropriate gambling forum?

Also BTC ponzi's are illegal (in the USA/Texas)

[koshgel]

New categorization might be good, but what exactly distinguishes a Ponzi-type game from other gambling?

Ponzi is a pyramid scheme. Also, these operators create outlandish rules where if you don't deposit in certain time frames, you don't get any BTC back. That's not gambling. That's stealing.

At least with other forms of gambling, the system is "provably fair" to an extent.

[MrPiggles]

This whole forum is bizarre.

It is, at first appearance, seemingly populated with somewhat intelligent, tech savvy people.

But when you actually look closer you realise it's mostly mongs, who've heard bitcoin is the best get rick quick scheme in existence, and are happily throwing bitcoin after bitcoin into schemes to get rich quick.

I actually wouldn't be surprised to hear one small team of people is behind all the ponzis, scam mining sites and vaporware companies.

Post in some Ponzi threads, and people will argue vehemently that X firm really is investing the 0.01 ($5.50) bitcoin they gave them, and isn't just a ponzi because - they have a slick website

[surfer43]

Compare that to the many dishonest de facto ponzi schemes I see advertised here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=159.0

You forgot the one you see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=1.0

I do not agree with this logic, I'm simply extending it.

Satoshi's such a scammer! Oh wait, no.

Do you deny that the subforum is filled with altcoins with little innovation, hyped in IPOs, given largely to insiders at launched, eventually pumped and cynically dumped? How is that sort of behavior less "cancerous" than a Ponzi scheme correctly labelled as a Ponzi scheme, posted in the basically-appropriate gambling forum?

No.

[surfer43]

Frankie has a good point about most new alt's being really bad.

....
Satoshi's such a scammer! Oh wait, no.

Do you deny that the subforum is filled with altcoins with little innovation, hyped in IPOs, given largely to insiders at launched, eventually pumped and cynically dumped? How is that sort of behavior less "cancerous" than a Ponzi scheme correctly labelled as a Ponzi scheme, posted in the basically-appropriate gambling forum?

Also BTC ponzi's are illegal (in the USA/Texas)

The IC3 doesn't care about it. I let them know a month ago and... nothing  
I think its only illegal if it is a hidden ponzi, e.g. it is promoted as an "investment". I may be wrong...

[roslinpl]

New categorization might be good, but what exactly distinguishes a Ponzi-type game from other gambling?

There is one thing that did it.

Ponzi owners say to users that is "120%" "LEGIT" "STABLE" and other shit. They do not say - you MIGHT lost lost your money.

When you place a bet @casino - you know what you are doing and you know before you place a bet that you can be a looser or a winner

that is main different between Ponzi and other gambling projects.

[boumalo]

I have a suggestion : create a Ponzi section and not allow newbies to create a post in this section, it will mean that only bitcointalk members that have been here for a while can post and create a new ponzi, that will avoid a lot of chea.p scams

Ponzis are a gambling game, I don't think they are way more evil than regular gambling if the owner is not luring people into thinking it is an investment and if he is not running away with the money.

[roslinpl]

I have a suggestion : create a Ponzi section and not allow newbies to create a post in this section, it will mean that only bitcointalk members that have been here for a while can post and create a new ponzi, that will avoid a lot of chea.p scams

Ponzis are a gambling game, I don't think they are way more evil than regular gambling if the owner is not luring people into thinking it is an investment and if he is not running away with the money.

If ponzi section will be created and newbies and jr members will be not allowd to post there then there are going to be no ponzi at all.
99, 9% of ponzi threads are  posted by users with activity <10.
:-)

[koshgel]

I have a suggestion : create a Ponzi section and not allow newbies to create a post in this section, it will mean that only bitcointalk members that have been here for a while can post and create a new ponzi, that will avoid a lot of chea.p scams

Ponzis are a gambling game, I don't think they are way more evil than regular gambling if the owner is not luring people into thinking it is an investment and if he is not running away with the money.

This solution would wipe ponzi. It's only invested and promoted by brand new accounts to make it seem popular.

[roslinpl]

I have a suggestion : create a Ponzi section and not allow newbies to create a post in this section, it will mean that only bitcointalk members that have been here for a while can post and create a new ponzi, that will avoid a lot of chea.p scams

Ponzis are a gambling game, I don't think they are way more evil than regular gambling if the owner is not luring people into thinking it is an investment and if he is not running away with the money.

This solution would wipe ponzi. It's only invested and promoted by brand new accounts to make it seem popular.

Yes fhats what I was sayin before.

I think if people want to play ponzi let them play :-) so I think create ponzi section and then let people choose do they want to play or not..

[boumalo]

I have a suggestion : create a Ponzi section and not allow newbies to create a post in this section, it will mean that only bitcointalk members that have been here for a while can post and create a new ponzi, that will avoid a lot of chea.p scams

Ponzis are a gambling game, I don't think they are way more evil than regular gambling if the owner is not luring people into thinking it is an investment and if he is not running away with the money.

If ponzi section will be created and newbies and jr members will be not allowd to post there then there are going to be no ponzi at all.
99, 9% of ponzi threads are  posted by users with activity <10.
:-)

There has been 1-3 ponzis that have been created by members, they didn't sc.am

Some of the ponzi owners will eventually get to the Jr status if they are dedicated, I am thinking about ponzicoin, ponzi120 and ponzimatic so it will just eliminate most the sc.ams and a lot of uninteresting ponzis

[NLNico]

I have a suggestion : create a Ponzi section and not allow newbies to create a post in this section, it will mean that only bitcointalk members that have been here for a while can post and create a new ponzi, that will avoid a lot of chea.p scams

Ponzis are a gambling game, I don't think they are way more evil than regular gambling if the owner is not luring people into thinking it is an investment and if he is not running away with the money.

There are many legit sites who like to start a topic with an official casino account. Not sure if this is the best solution. But I agree there must be something done against these sketchy ponzis. Just way too many of them.

edit: I just read that the "newbies restriction" would be on that new ponzi section only. That is a good idea. I thought it was about the gambling section, sorry

[roslinpl]

I have a suggestion : create a Ponzi section and not allow newbies to create a post in this section, it will mean that only bitcointalk members that have been here for a while can post and create a new ponzi, that will avoid a lot of chea.p scams

Ponzis are a gambling game, I don't think they are way more evil than regular gambling if the owner is not luring people into thinking it is an investment and if he is not running away with the money.

There are many legit sites who like to start a topic with an official casino account. Not sure if this is the best solution. But I agree there must be something done against these sketchy ponzis. Just way too many of them.

Way to many is to little to say :-)

95% of poniz are scam.

What I suggest is : ponzi section.
Just to stop this ponzi mess..

It will not stop scammers but perhpaps this part is harder to do.