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Author Topic: Fees have been low after Segwit's growing adoption. Thanks Segwit.  (Read 431 times)
stompix
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August 25, 2018, 12:03:27 PM
 #21

I hope Bitcoin's game-theoretic fundamentals work as intended and spamming is unprofitable and very costly. I assume that the attack has stopped because they realized that it failed to achieve their goals - make people switch to Bcash out of frustration caused by high fees.

I think that at that point they've realized that if they BTC goes down so does BCH..

The first spam wave worked for BCH and they've managed to become to become 2dn crypto in November but their mistake was that it happened in a bull market. When they've tried it 3 times as hard it had no effect, all the coins were going down and the gap between BTC and BCH was never going to be bridged.
What if they would have done it at a different time?

But this is a matter of if... and nobody knows the answer.

a POW change will only make Bitmain and Juhan Wu stronger and much richer than they are right now!
you think they give a shit if you make their current equipment useless? not at all because you are not only making their equipment useless, you are making all ASICs useless. Bitmain will happily start building new ASICs for the new algorithm and starts selling new equipment to miners that already had ASICs but now they can not use them anymore.

to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if some day Bitmain pushed for a PoW change! practically it will create demand for their products!

Well, in theory, you could create an algo that would render not ASIC useless but mass production of ASICs barely profitable....
But this is almost impossible when you have a reward of 1800*7000$ each day laying there for the miners to grab.

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August 26, 2018, 07:44:40 AM
 #22

Hahaha. Bitmain would not dare. What it would start is a stronger debate for a POW change through a UAHF. But if Jihan Wu wants his mining cartel to die then no one is stopping him from killing it.

a POW change will only make Bitmain and Juhan Wu stronger and much richer than they are right now!
you think they give a shit if you make their current equipment useless? not at all because you are not only making their equipment useless, you are making all ASICs useless. Bitmain will happily start building new ASICs for the new algorithm and starts selling new equipment to miners that already had ASICs but now they can not use them anymore.

I believe you are overestimating Bitmain, and underestimating game theory's motion in Bitcoin. It would be the best for Jihan Wu to act for himself and for the good of the network than acting only for himself.

Plus heavy losses in Bitmain are coming because they have over-invested their Bitcoins in Bitcoin Cash, and they are hoping their IPO will bail them out, which might not be.

Quote
to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if some day Bitmain pushed for a PoW change! practically it will create demand for their products!

Tinfoil hat on. Hahaha.

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August 26, 2018, 08:08:10 AM
 #23

After Segwit, the fees have been becoming very low. But expect it to be high again once the bull market returns or someone floods the mempool again. The good news is that it will be expensive for the spammers to flood the network. Let's dare them to do it again to show the whole community that Bitcoin's blocks can reach 2mb because Segwit. Cool



yeah it's really great, but as it's tied to the bear market and lower interest in crypto, it still need to get tested under the more difficult circumstance. Anyway, it's a great start Smiley
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August 26, 2018, 08:37:22 AM
 #24

Still there are many sites which havent adopted segwit. I dont see any problem doing it but a negligence from them. We have already seen the fudsters who clogged the network and we dont want another one soon. So its better to not all them.
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August 26, 2018, 09:27:09 AM
 #25

Only those who willingly wants to distort history would claim they there are no significant impact the launching of SegWit has bring to bitcoin transactions. I remembered a time that the pool is so full and you need to pay in percentage in other to get your transactions confirmed among several issues then. With SegWit all of those are becoming thing of the past and even if the price of bitcoin increased to that of last year and activities increased so much, I don't see any increase in transaction fees to such high point again.

I think Ver and bch are indeed the reasons they are holding the segwit adoption back at blockchain.info.

I don't understand the basis of your argument. He might have started or being part of those who started Blockchain.info now blockchain.com, but he is no longer involved in the day to day running of the platform and it even took a long while before blockchain.com integrate bitcoin cash on its platform. Eventually, I think its because SegWit has come as a game changer which then reduce the fee across board that makes no significance difference of fees in those who uses SegWit and those who does not that why they still stick to their status quo but when the tide change and they realise that customers are leaving their platform for alternatives, they will do the right thing.
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August 26, 2018, 09:28:21 AM
 #26

So even though the price hike's up the TX fee are the same?
In terms of Bitcoin, it's the same and will stay like that for a very long time until Bitcoin can be divided in to smaller amounts other than satoshi. Also we'll be having more solutions (Schnorr) for Bitcoin's scalability problem as time goes by to maintain Bitcoin's tx fee very cheap.

It is strange that blockchain.com is still not support SegWit, they announced that it would be this year - but seems they are to busy with adding BCH and by changing the domain. Roger Ver was one of owners, maybe he have some influence even today - by what that service takes as its priorities, it is not hard to see what is going on there.
They're probably too lazy to add it and because of them not adding segwit i've stopped using them.

We have already seen the fudsters who clogged the network and we dont want another one soon. So its better to not all them.
If all Bitcoin wallet starts switching to Segwit addresses the network will be less busy. Spammers will have a hard time clogging the network with transactions.  What's not to like about that?

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August 26, 2018, 09:31:04 AM
 #27

It really surprises me how many people and services are still not using Segwit though.
Now, these last couple of months, the percentage of Segwit transactions has steadily risen to just under 50%, but that can still be much better.

I agree, but I think part of the problem is that a lot of people are still using services that haven't upgraded their wallets. I decline to say wallets because although the users probably think they're using wallets... they're really just using website services and all users are on a handful of wallets with private keys all controlled by site owners.

One of my favourite sites is still non-SW, I've asked them about it and apparently, the reconsolidation of everything is just too difficult for 1 guy to do. I suppose it would be painful, and I even said doing it now with low fees is probably the best time. So they're happy to stick with charging higher fees and their users still don't mind. Same as my employers whom I've tried to convince. I guess the inconvenience is simply too great.

If I didn't have to rely on a few services for so long, I'd have moved 100% myself as it's practically hassle-free for me, Electrum upgrades, I sent everything I had from old to new. But still have to keep old wallet for people who can't send to bech32.

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August 26, 2018, 10:31:05 AM
 #28

The good news is a lot of the Alt coins {including Bitcoin Cash} that was used to as a alternative "transfer" option, has lost a

lot of momentum and these people will soon realize that these Alt coins is just a bunch of smoke & mirrors and pump n dump

schemes. Why would you need to buy a Alt coin as a alternative transfer media, if SegWit transfers does the same job just as

fast? If you used the Lightning Network, you would never use any of these Alt coins again.  Grin

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August 27, 2018, 06:23:01 AM
 #29

Only those who willingly wants to distort history would claim they there are no significant impact the launching of SegWit has bring to bitcoin transactions. I remembered a time that the pool is so full and you need to pay in percentage in other to get your transactions confirmed among several issues then. With SegWit all of those are becoming thing of the past and even if the price of bitcoin increased to that of last year and activities increased so much, I don't see any increase in transaction fees to such high point again.

I think Ver and bch are indeed the reasons they are holding the segwit adoption back at blockchain.info.

I don't understand the basis of your argument. He might have started or being part of those who started Blockchain.info now blockchain.com, but he is no longer involved in the day to day running of the platform and it even took a long while before blockchain.com integrate bitcoin cash on its platform. Eventually, I think its because SegWit has come as a game changer which then reduce the fee across board that makes no significance difference of fees in those who uses SegWit and those who does not that why they still stick to their status quo but when the tide change and they realise that customers are leaving their platform for alternatives, they will do the right thing.

I agree to what drm posted though. Blockchain.info has started to accept Bitcoin Cash deposits first but has not implemented Segwit because of what? I believe it's politics.

But yes, they will do the right thing because they will have no other route but have to use the best implementation. Cool

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August 30, 2018, 02:34:35 PM
 #30

Only those who willingly wants to distort history would claim they there are no significant impact the launching of SegWit has bring to bitcoin transactions. I remembered a time that the pool is so full and you need to pay in percentage in other to get your transactions confirmed among several issues then. With SegWit all of those are becoming thing of the past and even if the price of bitcoin increased to that of last year and activities increased so much, I don't see any increase in transaction fees to such high point again.

Sorry but at this point, it's you who wants to distort not history but the current reality.
I've already posted a graph here right now, we're below 2017 and even 2016 transaction number levels.

In the current situation, segwit or not segwit the blockchain would not experience the same high transaction fees.

Segwit adoption and more important transaction batching have helped overcome the spam attack but right now there are blocks getting mined each day 1/4 and 1/2 full, the activity has cooled a lot.




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August 30, 2018, 02:53:23 PM
 #31

The good news is a lot of the Alt coins {including Bitcoin Cash} that was used to as a alternative "transfer" option,

this is a statement that i will never understand and i have seen multiple users make this statement.
what transfer? to where?
to pay for stuff? to transfer money to someone else? donations?
none of these happen with altcoins. for instance if i wanted to buy some goods from a merchant that was accepting bitcoin, when BCH forked, they didn't start accepting it so how could i use BCH "as an alternative transfer option" when they didn't accept it?
transferring money to someone else? why would i do that when the other person only wants bitcoin not an altcoin because he is not capable of installing another wallet.
donations? nowhere accepts BCH or altcoins donations. at the bottom of PirateBay website is bitcoin SegWit address and is written a LOL in front of BCH Cheesy

there are some altcoins with usage like LTC and XMR,... but majority of them are not used for anything else apart from trading.

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August 30, 2018, 10:20:31 PM
 #32

It really surprises me how many people and services are still not using Segwit though.
Now, these last couple of months, the percentage of Segwit transactions has steadily risen to just under 50%, but that can still be much better.

Indeed, segwit adoption improving transaction speeds and lowering costs and this feature has been around for over a year but still, there are many exchanges and wallet providers not integrating it. Although segwit has significantly decreased the number of pending transactions in the Bitcoin mempool but I would like to see it tested during high-rate transactions per second such as happened before when bitcoin price spike to $20,000 whether it’ll prove to be invulnerable to spam attacks in its current incarnation or not. To deal with it, the ideal number for segwit adoption needs to be at least above 75%.
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August 30, 2018, 10:31:14 PM
 #33

It has been a very big relieve to me when moving fund via the bitcoin network, but some exchanges are yet very greedy, they refuse to reduce their transaction fee despite bitcoin transaction fee drop. I think they are too greedy.
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August 30, 2018, 11:00:23 PM
 #34

Still there are many sites which havent adopted segwit.
when the time comes, they will adopt segwit willingly to cut their costs
the reason they're not adopting yet, most likely because of time/resources for re-writing the back end system

... but some exchanges are yet very greedy, they refuse to reduce their transaction fee despite bitcoin transaction fee drop. I think they are too greedy.
true, anything over 10k~20k satoshi is a bit too much and most exchanges wants 50k+ sats
in a normal network traffic like these days, even a 5k satoshi should be more than enough for withdrawal fee
I think they set it high to discourage arbitrage trading (and make profit at the same time)

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August 30, 2018, 11:21:43 PM
 #35

Yes no one could forget those days when bcash was deliberately pumped and at the same time,bitcoin network was flooded with fake transactions creating congestion in the network and making transaction fees go much higher and also many miners switching to mine Bcash at that time.

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October 29, 2018, 05:59:56 AM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (2)
 #36

Newbies, despite what some people are telling you, Segwit is an improvement to the Bitcoin protocol. The blocks are nearing 95% full, and yet the confirmation times and especially the fees are normal.

Mempool spammers, flood it. Put the network to a test. Cool


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Hivalley
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October 29, 2018, 06:11:10 AM
 #37

It has been a very big relieve to me when moving fund via the bitcoin network, but some exchanges are yet very greedy, they refuse to reduce their transaction fee despite bitcoin transaction fee drop. I think they are too greedy.
You're very correct,even though swgwit has made things a bit cheaper for us, not every exchange is incorporating such reduction in their transaction fees...

And i do not feel anything can be done about this,considering this is a decentralized platform.

I'll simply just trade with the exchanges that have a reduced fees, as long as I do not leave my investment in an exchange,then I think I'm safe with them.
ganlianshifu1
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October 29, 2018, 09:39:26 AM
 #38

Lightning Network can effectively reduce transaction costs, and transactions in the Lightning Network are almost immediately effective!
Lightning network can also bring higher anonymity!
The large-scale promotion of lightning network can expand the practical application of cryptocurrency!
1Referee
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October 29, 2018, 11:54:49 AM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (1)
 #39

The blocks are nearing 95% full, and yet the confirmation times and especially the fees are normal.
The fees aren't normal, but a fucking steal. People have to take into consideration that we're talking about the most secure and liquid network. Bitcoin's block space is the most expensive sort of storage in the world, and we're paying peanuts to utilize it.

Mempool spammers, flood it. Put the network to a test. Cool
I don't think mempool spammers are the main obstacle we'll be facing, but miners themselves. Last year the main source of network congestion was caused by miners moving insane amounts of hashpower from BTC to BCH, then back to BTC, then again to BCH, etc. These hashpower movements slow down block times to such degree, that it automatically causes more network congestion.

At peak the average block times were pushed to over 15 minutes instead of the regular 10 minutes.
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October 29, 2018, 12:02:51 PM
 #40

Fees are so cheap now it’s incredible. Confirmations are as quick as I can remember. I know it was largely due to the Ver/Jihan attack but during the last bull run (my memory is terrible but) I’m pretty sure I was paying $15-$20 fees.

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