Losing 1000+ bitcoins per day ? How can that go unnoticed ?

[Skybuck]

Hello,

With the whole Mt Gox hack-thing going on... there is one question on my mind which just boggles my mind:

How can Mt Gox loose 1000+ bitcoins each day ? And not notice a damn thing ?

According to the story... 750.000 bitcoins were lost in the last 2 years ?! so on average 1000+ bitcoins per day ?

Maybe it happened in bursts ?

Yes Mt Gox had bad accounting according to the story... but 1000+ bitcoins each day on average ?

Wow... I just can't imagine it really

Also... what really happened before 1 december when Mt Gox spiked to a 1000 dollars per bitcoin ?!

(Perhaps Mt Gox halted trading/stopped selling and thus price sky-rocketed cause of bitcoin shortage.).

Hmmm...

Bye,
  Skybuck.

[franky1]

MARK Kerpeles has more chance of stealing the coins himself, putting funds into a personal address even his employees and lawyers dont know about. to then pretend to be insolvent. rather then losing coins to the extent of 1000+ coins a day

[acoindr]

You have to remember he couldn't have had static accounts, something you might imagine as a personal checking account, where it's easy to understand balances.

Mt.Gox was the largest exchange for a long time and dealt with thousands of users buying and selling. MtGox at one point had 20K users signing up per day. So you've got over 100,000 (at least) users with a good number of accounts alternating amount of BTC/USD from trading. You constantly have new users signing up depositing USD, miners depositing fresh coins to sell for covering expenses, day traders, people withdrawing BTC, people withdrawing USD, through wire transfers, Dwolla accounts (while available). Then you have employees and expenses to manage and pay. The U.S. DHS seizing millions worth of USD in your Dwolla account, an impending merger with CoinLab which dissolves into a multi-million dollar lawsuit, an uncertain regulatory environment everywhere, your own Japanese bank accounts and local regulatory compliance, normal international customer service, normal operations, obvious scams, site security, DDoS attacks and on TOP of all that, MtGox wrote their own custom client to transact directly with the network and did so horribly badly. Their software resulted in double spends, invalid transactions, accidentally lost coins, and broken withdrawals, which they apparently had a policy of re-sending based on transaction ID.

I think Mark Karpeles had a real desire to help Bitcoin succeed with MtGox a big part of that. In many ways it was. I got my first coins from MtGox. Many people did. I just think he was in over his head.

[mnemonick]

I think that nothing was stolen. Mark for some reasons needs to shut down exchange immediately.
Maybe it was case with SilkRoad? Maybe with MSB in USA ? Maybe other things.
Mark needs to create new exchange without past problems (new GOX). But how to make it? Hmmm we can see now how Mark is playing with public. This is his way to full rebranding. Or even better, it is creation totally new business from roots.
He said, cold storage is not missing but temporary unavailable (what does it means?) With cold storage situation is binary (0,1). He lost his cold storage or he didn't. There is no such think like temporary unavailable. So Mark is cheating like a sissy girl . It is for sure!
He want to make new exchange. So his intentions are good. I think that he will return all BTC through new GOX. For new GOX he will find mysterious investor. In fact there will be no investors at all (Mark is too danger right now). But... he have users money and BTC. By using this money and BTC he will stimulate new exchange.

[darrd]

cause busy counting money.

[Zeeks]

As people have been looking deeper into the blockchain it is appearing that not many coins (if any) were stolen. There is between 100,000 and 500,000 BTC which still appears to be in MtGOX wallets.

So something else is going on here and the "theft" thing is a smokescreen. One theory is they had a software bug and lost the private keys to most of their wallets and Mark is trying to convince everyone it was theft and not incompetence.

[BrewCrewFan]

As people have been looking deeper into the blockchain it is appearing that not many coins (if any) were stolen. There is between 100,000 and 500,000 BTC which still appears to be in MtGOX wallets.

So something else is going on here and the "theft" thing is a smokescreen. One theory is they had a software bug and lost the private keys to most of their wallets and Mark is trying to convince everyone it was theft and not incompetence.

So what happens to those coins? they just sit there forever with no one being able to access those coins?

[CoinHoarder]

As people have been looking deeper into the blockchain it is appearing that not many coins (if any) were stolen. There is between 100,000 and 500,000 BTC which still appears to be in MtGOX wallets.

So something else is going on here and the "theft" thing is a smokescreen. One theory is they had a software bug and lost the private keys to most of their wallets and Mark is trying to convince everyone it was theft and not incompetence.

Sounds bullish to me. 

[Nagle]

Mt. Gox did not have, as far as anyone can tell, a CFO, a controller, an inside auditor, or an outside auditor. That's how.

When you see a company set up like that, it's usually an indication that management is stealing.

[Zeeks]

As people have been looking deeper into the blockchain it is appearing that not many coins (if any) were stolen. There is between 100,000 and 500,000 BTC which still appears to be in MtGOX wallets.

So something else is going on here and the "theft" thing is a smokescreen. One theory is they had a software bug and lost the private keys to most of their wallets and Mark is trying to convince everyone it was theft and not incompetence.

Sounds bullish to me.  

The threads about it keep being moved over to Service Discussion. Check out what people are doing in this one though and you can see tens of thousands of coins still sitting in wallets which are linked to MtGOX: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492776.0

Here is just one address which is 100% for sure MtGOX owned and it has 50k in it: https://blockchain.info/address/1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9

And they claimed they only had access to about 2k coins.

This one is really interesting too: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1za9sf/found_at_least_150k_btc_of_mt_goxs_stolen_coins/
It points out that right before the "halting withdrawals" announcement a bunch of MtGOX addresses dumped their money elsewhere. Also no one is able to come up with examples of transaction malleability withdrawals, it should be pretty obvious because you would see the same amount of bitcoins transferred twice but that does not seem to have actually happened.

So Mark is saying a bunch of shit and it's not holding up with scrutiny of the blockchain.

[pening]

As people have been looking deeper into the blockchain it is appearing that not many coins (if any) were stolen. There is between 100,000 and 500,000 BTC which still appears to be in MtGOX wallets.

Any analysis that comes with as wide a range as 100k - 500k isn't worth considering seriously. 

Face it, they were stolen, most likely internally by someone who knew process was so lax or could fiddle any checks to hide the theft. 

[mysidia]

As people have been looking deeper into the blockchain it is appearing that not many coins (if any) were stolen. There is between 100,000 and 500,000 BTC which still appears to be in MtGOX wallets.

Any analysis that comes with as wide a range as 100k - 500k isn't worth considering seriously. 

I read that as they're saying they have shown at least 1/5th of the 500,000 BTC haven't moved from Gox wallets,   and there might be a measure of doubt about some of the others.

Face it, they were stolen, most likely internally by someone who knew process was so lax or could fiddle any checks to hide the theft. 

Their analysis is no less believable than claims like they were all stolen;   particularly when it's pointed out   spends into known Gox wallets were never spent.
And they're backed up by evidence from the blockchain.

Face it:  we don't have all the facts, at least not yet,
and now is not the time to make assumptions.


Need regulatory investigation of Gox management.

[leopard2]

remember him saying, techically the coins are not lost just unavailable?

if they had been stolen, they would be GONE and not be just unavailable

also with the USD left he could have purchased a lot of btc at the internal gox prices and reopened the exchange for quite awhile (since fiat withdraws are not working anyways)

HOW likely is it that only the malled transactions have coincidentally led to the discovery of the theft?

this stinks badly, something is so wrong here 

[pening]

remember him saying, techically the coins are not lost just unavailable?

if they had been stolen, they would be GONE and not be just unavailable

That's just a technicality of Bitcoin, isn't it?  You can't really lose Bitcoins, the blockchain records exactly where they went, they are unavailable to those who thought they owned them (or them held in trust).

[mayax]

of course any company would notice that a lot of money are missing daily. how else?

This is a bullshit...If Mtgox lost the private keys, Bitcoin Foundation should do something..

I think MTgox stolen the funds. This is the pure truth. They moved the BTC to different wallets and they will wait for a while to withdrawn the funds(a year or so). 

[T.Stuart]

The Adventures of Marky K: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OkoQv9Onoc

[rikkejohn]

remember him saying, techically the coins are not lost just unavailable?

if they had been stolen, they would be GONE and not be just unavailable

That's just a technicality of Bitcoin, isn't it?  You can't really lose Bitcoins, the blockchain records exactly where they went, they are unavailable to those who thought they owned them (or them held in trust).

I think you can lose them personally if you send, for example, 2 BTCs to an exchange and make that into 3 BTCs by trading. If you don't get the chance to remove them from the exchange, at best you would be able to demonstrate your 2 BTCs. I think a lot of people on Gox have such a problem.

Maybe I'm wrong.

[thelema93]

How does this go unnoticed:

(From Mark Karpeles dodgy document:)
Liabilities
Bitcoins 2,000 BTC
in the Hot Wallet
624,408 BTC(Customers)
+120 000 ( MtGox)
- 80 208 BTC
From banned or suspicious accounts

TOTAL: 744,408 BTC

AND "At this point 744,408 BTC are missing due to malleability-related theft which went
unnoticed for several years."

Oops, same number.

[joesmoe2012]

The 2000 bitcoins is just unrealistic. I don't believe it for a second.

[Bit_Happy]

How can that go unnoticed ?

Either Mark is a huge thief or the US Feds have control.