GatePay

[burakkeceli]

Crypto payment processing for all businesses. GatePay is a suite of payment applications that powers cryptocurrency commerce for businesses of all shapes and sizes. It can even be integrated with legacy payment infrastructure.

gatepay.co

[upandtotheright96]

This is an interesting idea!  A couple pieces of feedback:

There are some typos in the blackpaper.  (I like the idea of black, though!) 

On Page 4, for example: In the case if double-spend attempts prevented by a mechanism there will no more problem existed.

I think it might worth investing in having an editor look through the document; perhaps for a bounty?

My other main question is about the value of the "instantaneous" transactions.  Retailers today are already waiting ~30 days to receive their money in Fiat from Mastercard/Visa.  My suspicion would be that 10 minutes is not too long for them.

Do you think that this "instant" value proposition is mostly for the p2p user?

[burakkeceli]

This is an interesting idea!  A couple pieces of feedback:

There are some typos in the blackpaper.  (I like the idea of black, though!)  

On Page 4, for example: In the case if double-spend attempts prevented by a mechanism there will no more problem existed.

I think it might worth investing in having an editor look through the document; perhaps for a bounty?

My other main question is about the value of the "instantaneous" transactions.  Retailers today are already waiting ~30 days to receive their money in Fiat from Mastercard/Visa.  My suspicion would be that 10 minutes is not too long for them.

Do you think that this "instant" value proposition is mostly for the p2p user?

Yeah you're right document is very draft now I'll fix it as soon as possible.
In the perspective of merchants yeah 10 min is not such a time but the problem is buyers need to wait that time (10 min) because if a merchant accept an unconfirmed transaction as a payment and let customer leave, then customers can double-spend their payment transactions by including higher fee to redeem their funds payback. GatePay solves this problem by preventing double spend attacks targeting unconfirmed transactions. Protocol is not making transactions "instantaneous" it makes payments "instantaneous". Transaction still estimates about 10 min but payment accepted instantaneously by payee.

[pinkflower]

Doesnt Bitpay have the same service as your project? They also dont like offchain solutions and have made sure that everything stays onchain by adding BCH in their accepted coins because its more scalable.

What would be your technical advantage over Bitpay?

[burakkeceli]

Doesnt Bitpay have the same service as your project? They also dont like offchain solutions and have made sure that everything stays onchain by adding BCH in their accepted coins because its more scalable.

What would be your technical advantage over Bitpay?

Yeah BitPay is on-chain solution but it's for ordinary payment transactions, not for instant transactions. Online merchants using BitPay need to be sure their incoming transactions are confirmed thats because buyers can double-spend their unconfirmed payments.
>>https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002990823-How-do-I-prevent-double-spend-fraud-on-unconfirmed-payments-
BitPay is for online merchants not for physical merchants this is done so when you make a bitcoin payment for e-commerce with BitPay it does not matter when your transaction will be mined. Let say you bought something online through BitPay and your transaction is confirmed 3 hours later, once its confirmed then online merchant post your order. In the contrast way in terms of physical commerce it's essential to make instant payments because nobody would wait for 10 minute to buy a cup of coffee from a local store. That's why bitcoin is only used for a store of value and investment tool rather than used for daily payments.

[hase0278]

As far as I can understand from the technical details, GatePay will support bitcoin but how will you make everything in your whitepaper work? Can you please elaborate it? IMO, Since the buyer needs to connect to the vendor's node first, this project will require you to ask for the help of experts with lots of achievements in coding blockchain related projects. Also, will GatePay support other cryptocurrencies besides bitcoin?

[burakkeceli]

As far as I can understand from the technical details, GatePay will support bitcoin but how will you make everything in your whitepaper work? Can you please elaborate it? IMO, Since the buyer needs to connect to the vendor's node first, this project will require you to ask for the help of experts with lots of achievements in coding blockchain related projects. Also, will GatePay support other cryptocurrencies besides bitcoin?

Our protocol is called "protected transaction" and it has two implementations which are decentralized and centralized implementations. For decentralized one we need to build an open p2p network which will be handled in the future. Right now GatePay uses centralized implementation which we store "protected transaction" (2nd transaction) on our server (not private key, signed hex transactions which are ready to release). Our servers run nodes to detect double-spend attacks and release these transactions in double-spend case for merchants. Its an already working product supporting bitcoin, ether, litecoin, doge and dash. You can get it from app store and playstore as a software wallet.
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/gatepay/id1306809030?l=tr&ls=1&mt=8
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.gatepay

[pinkflower]

Doesnt Bitpay have the same service as your project? They also dont like offchain solutions and have made sure that everything stays onchain by adding BCH in their accepted coins because its more scalable.

What would be your technical advantage over Bitpay?

Yeah BitPay is on-chain solution but it's for ordinary payment transactions, not for instant transactions. Online merchants using BitPay need to be sure their incoming transactions are confirmed thats because buyers can double-spend their unconfirmed payments.
>>https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002990823-How-do-I-prevent-double-spend-fraud-on-unconfirmed-payments-
BitPay is for online merchants not for physical merchants this is done so when you make a bitcoin payment for e-commerce with BitPay it does not matter when your transaction will be mined. Let say you bought something online through BitPay and your transaction is confirmed 3 hours later, once its confirmed then online merchant post your order. In the contrast way in terms of physical commerce it's essential to make instant payments because nobody would wait for 10 minute to buy a cup of coffee from a local store. That's why bitcoin is only used for a store of value and investment tool rather than used for daily payments.

Okay I understand now, ty. But why do you have hesitations in using offchain solutions like Lightning Network? Wouldnt your service be doing transactions offchain like Lightning Network, but a centralized version?

[vakaxacompany]

Your product is really good. I think it helps all businesses a lot.

[burakkeceli]

Doesnt Bitpay have the same service as your project? They also dont like offchain solutions and have made sure that everything stays onchain by adding BCH in their accepted coins because its more scalable.

What would be your technical advantage over Bitpay?

Yeah BitPay is on-chain solution but it's for ordinary payment transactions, not for instant transactions. Online merchants using BitPay need to be sure their incoming transactions are confirmed thats because buyers can double-spend their unconfirmed payments.
>>https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002990823-How-do-I-prevent-double-spend-fraud-on-unconfirmed-payments-
BitPay is for online merchants not for physical merchants this is done so when you make a bitcoin payment for e-commerce with BitPay it does not matter when your transaction will be mined. Let say you bought something online through BitPay and your transaction is confirmed 3 hours later, once its confirmed then online merchant post your order. In the contrast way in terms of physical commerce it's essential to make instant payments because nobody would wait for 10 minute to buy a cup of coffee from a local store. That's why bitcoin is only used for a store of value and investment tool rather than used for daily payments.

Okay I understand now, ty. But why do you have hesitations in using offchain solutions like Lightning Network? Wouldnt your service be doing transactions offchain like Lightning Network, but a centralized version?

Comparing to Lightning Network, on-chain has 3 main advantages over LN in terms of spend flexibility, macro-payments, integration easiness and offline payments.
a) Spend Flexibility
LN uses payment channels and you need to lock your funds into a multi-sig address. You are not allowed to spend your funs outside LN and (probably) outside your payment channel. Each payment channel has a deadline so you have to wait till a certain time (locktime) to redeem rest of your funds back which is a very significant problem.
b) Macro-payments
LN is built for only micro-payments, not for non-micro payments due to some technical limitations. Underlying reason is you have a connection path on your payment channel and each node have to be funded at least the amount of your payment. Lets say you want to make a payment about 1 BTC through LN each node on your path have to be funded at least 1 BTC which is likely impossible.
c) Integration easiness
LN scales existing blockchains but it's a different structure than blockchain, it's a separate galaxy. Even blockchain adoption is not happened but existing wallets, exchanges, services, ATMs are all using blockchain protocol while LN offers another protocol. Both merchant and customer have to maintain commerce on same protocol, they need to use a LN integrated wallet for commerce.
d) Offline payments
Trade on LN happens only between peers so each peer have to be uptime as much as possible. Peers need to operate 7/24 online nodes otherwise payment channel crashes. On blockchain each node stores same copy of ledger. So peers don't have to be 7/24 online because other nodes are storing their transaction data alongside rest of chain data.

[pinkflower]

Doesnt Bitpay have the same service as your project? They also dont like offchain solutions and have made sure that everything stays onchain by adding BCH in their accepted coins because its more scalable.

What would be your technical advantage over Bitpay?

Yeah BitPay is on-chain solution but it's for ordinary payment transactions, not for instant transactions. Online merchants using BitPay need to be sure their incoming transactions are confirmed thats because buyers can double-spend their unconfirmed payments.
>>https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002990823-How-do-I-prevent-double-spend-fraud-on-unconfirmed-payments-
BitPay is for online merchants not for physical merchants this is done so when you make a bitcoin payment for e-commerce with BitPay it does not matter when your transaction will be mined. Let say you bought something online through BitPay and your transaction is confirmed 3 hours later, once its confirmed then online merchant post your order. In the contrast way in terms of physical commerce it's essential to make instant payments because nobody would wait for 10 minute to buy a cup of coffee from a local store. That's why bitcoin is only used for a store of value and investment tool rather than used for daily payments.

Okay I understand now, ty. But why do you have hesitations in using offchain solutions like Lightning Network? Wouldnt your service be doing transactions offchain like Lightning Network, but a centralized version?

Comparing to Lightning Network, on-chain has 3 main advantages over LN in terms of spend flexibility, macro-payments, integration easiness and offline payments.
a) Spend Flexibility
LN uses payment channels and you need to lock your funds into a multi-sig address. You are not allowed to spend your funs outside LN and (probably) outside your payment channel. Each payment channel has a deadline so you have to wait till a certain time (locktime) to redeem rest of your funds back which is a very significant problem.
b) Macro-payments
LN is built for only micro-payments, not for non-micro payments due to some technical limitations. Underlying reason is you have a connection path on your payment channel and each node have to be funded at least the amount of your payment. Lets say you want to make a payment about 1 BTC through LN each node on your path have to be funded at least 1 BTC which is likely impossible.
c) Integration easiness
LN scales existing blockchains but it's a different structure than blockchain, it's a separate galaxy. Even blockchain adoption is not happened but existing wallets, exchanges, services, ATMs are all using blockchain protocol while LN offers another protocol. Both merchant and customer have to maintain commerce on same protocol, they need to use a LN integrated wallet for commerce.
d) Offline payments
Trade on LN happens only between peers so each peer have to be uptime as much as possible. Peers need to operate 7/24 online nodes otherwise payment channel crashes. On blockchain each node stores same copy of ledger. So peers don't have to be 7/24 online because other nodes are storing their transaction data alongside rest of chain data.

Yeah but wouldnt your service be doing offchain transactions or function like a centralized money processor for BTC users like BitGo or a combination? I read that BitGo also has instant transactions but for a higher fee.

[burakkeceli]

Doesnt Bitpay have the same service as your project? They also dont like offchain solutions and have made sure that everything stays onchain by adding BCH in their accepted coins because its more scalable.

What would be your technical advantage over Bitpay?

Yeah BitPay is on-chain solution but it's for ordinary payment transactions, not for instant transactions. Online merchants using BitPay need to be sure their incoming transactions are confirmed thats because buyers can double-spend their unconfirmed payments.
>>https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002990823-How-do-I-prevent-double-spend-fraud-on-unconfirmed-payments-
BitPay is for online merchants not for physical merchants this is done so when you make a bitcoin payment for e-commerce with BitPay it does not matter when your transaction will be mined. Let say you bought something online through BitPay and your transaction is confirmed 3 hours later, once its confirmed then online merchant post your order. In the contrast way in terms of physical commerce it's essential to make instant payments because nobody would wait for 10 minute to buy a cup of coffee from a local store. That's why bitcoin is only used for a store of value and investment tool rather than used for daily payments.

Okay I understand now, ty. But why do you have hesitations in using offchain solutions like Lightning Network? Wouldnt your service be doing transactions offchain like Lightning Network, but a centralized version?

Comparing to Lightning Network, on-chain has 3 main advantages over LN in terms of spend flexibility, macro-payments, integration easiness and offline payments.
a) Spend Flexibility
LN uses payment channels and you need to lock your funds into a multi-sig address. You are not allowed to spend your funs outside LN and (probably) outside your payment channel. Each payment channel has a deadline so you have to wait till a certain time (locktime) to redeem rest of your funds back which is a very significant problem.
b) Macro-payments
LN is built for only micro-payments, not for non-micro payments due to some technical limitations. Underlying reason is you have a connection path on your payment channel and each node have to be funded at least the amount of your payment. Lets say you want to make a payment about 1 BTC through LN each node on your path have to be funded at least 1 BTC which is likely impossible.
c) Integration easiness
LN scales existing blockchains but it's a different structure than blockchain, it's a separate galaxy. Even blockchain adoption is not happened but existing wallets, exchanges, services, ATMs are all using blockchain protocol while LN offers another protocol. Both merchant and customer have to maintain commerce on same protocol, they need to use a LN integrated wallet for commerce.
d) Offline payments
Trade on LN happens only between peers so each peer have to be uptime as much as possible. Peers need to operate 7/24 online nodes otherwise payment channel crashes. On blockchain each node stores same copy of ledger. So peers don't have to be 7/24 online because other nodes are storing their transaction data alongside rest of chain data.

Yeah but wouldnt your service be doing offchain transactions or function like a centralized money processor for BTC users like BitGo or a combination? I read that BitGo also has instant transactions but for a higher fee.

BitGo has instant transaction feature but they are using multi-signature addresses in a centralized way. I think on-chain is the best approach, transactions should be maintained on the main blockchain.