Rochelle Hub Theater

[repentance]

Something bothers me far more than any of the factual and spot-on criticisms regarding a total lack of due diligence to financial or construction planning-- why would anyone post this shit on Bitcointalk if they were serious about it?

This probably isn't the best forum on the board for soliciting donations but I doubt it would be seen as a "Bitcoin project" in the projects forum so at least he's got some sound business advice here even if no donations are forthcoming.

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[logansryche]

This probably isn't the best forum on the board for soliciting donations but I doubt it would be seen as a "Bitcoin project" in the projects forum so at least he's got some sound business advice here even if no donations are forthcoming.

It is and it isn't. It's way off topic, true. It could be counted as a bitcoin project as i'm seeking bitcoin donations and that once the theater is operational bitcoins will become one form of payment there. We could argue these points all night long, but those were my intentions anyhow.

EDIT: But then again, if I had a good graphics card to mine coins, I wouldn't have to post my donation requests here and sound like an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Something bothers me far more than any of the factual and spot-on criticisms regarding a total lack of due diligence to financial or construction planning-- why would anyone post this shit on Bitcointalk if they were serious about it?


I'm all for restoring theatres. I enjoy films as much as the next guy. My favorite films are those pre-1960. The problem is that you have no idea what you're doing and it's painfully obvious. Here are some opinions of your idea posted by various individuals at somethingawful.

• Renovations list consists mostly of surface/sale items
• Majority of 'classic'/'retro' movie theatre goers would want a restored, not renovated theatre.
• You don't buy a fountain machine, you get one as part of you Coke/Pepsi contract.
• Buy an ice machine.
• Soda bag prices are ridiculously inaccurate.
• Deep fryer and corndog fryer, just get one large two basket fryer, allows for more fried food items.
• Electric potato shredder is a waste, given everything you sell will probably be premade and or frozen.
• Don't see a freezer in the budget.
• If you want fresh fries, use a manual one, also pizza oven display combos are a waste given you will probably be selling frozen personal pizzas.
• Might as well have a hot-pocket oven and display.
• Convection oven, are you running a restaurant or a theater?
• Best bet is to make it a theatre/bar with decent food (actual best bet is not to do it at all), because a three screen theater is doomed.
• Even multiscreen "art" theaters need booze to stay afloat.
• You stated in your write up it died due to cost of films, and yet you're going to do the same thing if not worse than the last owners.
• Your items list reads like a poorly done elementary school "start a business" project. Not to mention most of these things can be bought used.
• You don't even know the price of film ($50,000+ a week for new feature films), which is paramount to knowing if you can have a profitable go. Were you planning on playing TailSpin 24/7?
• Odds are the size of theatres makes it impossible to have profitable showings, not to mention the fans for AC.
• The VIP "access to every film every made" idea is downright laughable. That's not how films are licensed to theatres. Distributors don't provide you with a copy of every film ever made and let you keep them to show them to your customers on demand. Any attempt to avert this could be seen as piracy.
• The building hasn't had a safety inspection since 2000 and you're not going to commission a structural integrity report?
• Rochelle, IL has a population of 9,574, I don't think there is room there for niche anything. much less a fully functional profit-making theatre. Also one of the big perks you're planning is that the theater will accept bitcoins. How many people know what a bitcoin is in rural Illinois?
• There is a 10 screen cinema, an independent one screen theatre, and a historical, limited events theatre that barely functions, all in the next town over, Dekalb. It's barely a half hour away. How can you have a business plan so wonderful that it can be completely destroyed with 5 mins of very modest effort on google maps?
• You haven't listed anything in your purchase list to actually play your movies on. You're buying two home theatre projectors, but these would have to hook up to a player of some nature. Were you planning on using your macbook?

But then again, if I had a good graphics card to mine coins, I wouldn't have to post my donation requests here and sound like an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

Yea. A good graphics card is all you need. Why with a brand new 6990 you could be making like $50 a month in profit, all while your girlfriend pays $300 a month for the electric bill!

[logansryche]

Trust me, I'm 100% all for restoring theatres. I am a classic film buff. The majority of films I have watched are pre-1960. The problem is that you have no idea what you're doing and it's painfully obvious. Here are some opinions of your idea posted by various individuals on another forum.

• Renovations list consists mostly of surface/sale items
• Majority of 'classic'/'retro' movie theatre goers would want a restored, not renovated theatre.
• You don't buy a fountain machine, you get one as part of you Coke/Pepsi contract.
• Buy an ice machine.
• Soda bag prices are ridiculously inaccurate.
• Deep fryer and corndog fryer, just get one large two basket fryer, allows for more fried food items.
• Electric potato shredder is a waste, given everything you sell will probably be premade and or frozen.
• Don't see a freezer in the budget.
• If you want fresh fries, use a manual one, also pizza oven display combos are a waste given you will probably be selling frozen personal pizzas.
• Might as well have a hot-pocket oven and display.
• Convection oven, are you running a restaurant or a theater?
• Best bet is to make it a theatre/bar with decent food (actual best bet is not to do it at all), because a three screen theater is doomed.
• Even multiscreen "art" theaters need booze to stay afloat.
• You stated in your write up it died due to cost of films, and yet you're going to do the same thing if not worse than the last owners.
• Your items list reads like a poorly done elementary school "start a business" project. Not to mention most of these things can be bought used.
• You don't even know the price of film ($50,000+ a week for new feature films), which is paramount to knowing if you can have a profitable go. Were you planning on playing TailSpin 24/7?
• Odds are the size of theatres makes it impossible to have profitable showings, not to mention the fans for AC.
• The VIP "access to every film every made" idea is downright laughable. That's not how films are licensed to theatres. Distributors don't provide you with a copy of every film ever made and let you keep them to show them to your customers on demand. Any attempt to avert this could be seen as piracy.
• The building hasn't had a safety inspection since 2000 and you're not going to commission a structural integrity report?
• Rochelle, IL has a population of 9,574, I don't think there is room there for niche anything. much less a fully functional profit-making theatre. Also one of the big perks you're planning is that the theater will accept bitcoins. How many people know what a bitcoin is in rural Illinois?
• There is a 10 screen cinema, an independent one screen theatre, and a historical, limited events theatre that barely functions, all in the next town over, Dekalb. It's barely a half hour away. How can you have a business plan so wonderful that it can be completely destroyed with 5 mins of very modest effort on google maps?

But then again, if I had a good graphics card to mine coins, I wouldn't have to post my donation requests here and sound like an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

Yea. A good graphics card is all you need. Why with a brand new 6990 you could be making like $50 a month in profit, all while your girlfriend pays $300 a month for the electric bill!

Well seeing how folks here like to pick me apart because of past(which isn't fair, but what do I know)....

• It does because that's all I see that it needs(which will be confirmed once I hear back from my friend). All I had to go off of were the pictures the realtor took, and they list the equipment as is(which can be good or bad), so I list all new equipment just to be sure.
• I would've liked they kept the origional front that was there, but that when who knows where.
• you buy all of your stuff to eliminate costs.
• Fountain machine includes an ice machine/chipper built in.
• $88 for a box of syrup from sams club(which I'm a member of) isn't inaccurate.
• This I could agree on, one fryer for multiple things.
• I agree with this as well.
• The list isn't 100% complete; you'll also note I don't have listed replacement sound material(couldn't find prices)
• I agree with part of this, that is the point of the oven combo.. to keep pizza hot.
• Couldn't find one.
• Concession stand.
• There'd be room for it, since the 2 front business' pulled out when the theater went under.
• I don't know of one theater that sells beer.
• No, I said that cost of films might have been a cause. I also said not keeping up to date could have been a reason also
• Sorry, I enjoy basic html.
• I'm told films wont cost no more then $2,000. I'll have to see what the distributor says.
• I don't know. Realtor said there are 1,000 seats in there in total.
• Actualy, if I went out and bought every film on dvd and showed it to anyone who has VIP acess, it would be technically a free showing.
• Nope.
• You're right, Rochelle does have a population of 9500 people and i'm sure they'd love to have their theater up and running again. I never said it'd be a big perk, but that it'll be another form of payment. DOn't put words in my mouth.
• Who drives a half hour to see a movie when there's a theater in town? No one I know.

I never said a good graphics card would be the answers to all my problems, but it'd help in getting bitcoins.

[repentance]

EDIT: But then again, if I had a good graphics card to mine coins, I wouldn't have to post my donation requests here and sound like an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

You'd need to mine over 100k Bitcoins at today's prices.  Someone more technically literate than I am could probably work out how long that would take a solo miner, but from the posts I see around here it looks like solo miners using a single graphics card take a long time to mine a single coin.

Also, here's a link to some information on how movie distribution usually works.

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/movie-distribution2.htm

If you're planning on using home theatre equipment, you need to realise that the image won't fill a cinema screen and you're going to get pretty crappy sound in a space that size - which is going to work against you in attracting repeat customers.

[rainingbitcoins]

• Actualy, if I went out and bought every film on dvd and showed it to anyone who has VIP acess, it would be technically a free showing.

No it wouldn't because you'd be charging them for VIP access, but even if it was totally free, you still couldn't do it. Haven't you ever read the FBI warning at the beginning of every movie you've ever rented?

• You're right, Rochelle does have a population of 9500 people and i'm sure they'd love to have their theater up and running again. I never said it'd be a big perk, but that it'll be another form of payment. DOn't put words in my mouth.

My small hometown has almost exactly the population of Rochelle. We have a single old theater with one screen that plays second-run movies. The owners are a couple who made their money in other businesses and run the theater solely as a hobby and actually lose money on the deal.

[logansryche]

No it wouldn't because you'd be charging them for VIP access, but even if it was totally free, you still couldn't do it. Haven't you ever read the FBI warning at the beginning of every movie you've ever rented?

Thats rented movies lol. There's a license you can get that allows you to display movie publicly.

My small hometown has almost exactly the population of Rochelle. We have a single old theater with one screen that plays second-run movies. The owners are a couple who made their money in other businesses and run the theater solely as a hobby and actually lose money on the deal.

I stand by my previous statements.

[repentance]

Logansryche probably also thinks that radiostations don't need permission to play music and that they just 'download the mp3' whenever they want to play a song.

Under The Copyright Act any viewing or exhibition of a video in a public place (schools are considered public places) must have Public Performance Rights. P.P.R. rights can be added into the cost of the video at the time of purchase. Written confirmation of permission must be obtained from the copyright holder and kept on file.

There's no shame in not knowing stuff, but to bring a dream to reality one of your first and most important tasks is finding out all the stuff you don't know.  That exercise alone is enough to kill many projects dead because it often reveals that implementing the idea is far more complex or far more expensive than the proposer could possibly have imagined.

Just a note.  Cinemas don't buy copies of movies from distributors.  They're only leased and must be returned to the distributor at the end of the contracted period unless an extension is negotiated (and it probably won't be granted if the box office sales aren't good - they'd rather give that copy to another cinema which might get more box office sales).

[Matthew N. Wright]

Cinemas don't buy copies of movies from distributors.  They're only leased and must be returned to the distributor at the end of the contracted period unless an extension is negotiated (and it probably won't be granted if the box office sales aren't good - they'd rather give that copy to another cinema which might get more box office sales).

I think he's going more for previously screened movies, isn't he? I'm pretty sure he's just planning on playing downloaded movies of the internet or buying the DVDs.

Logansryche probably also thinks that radiostations don't need permission to play music and that they just 'download the mp3' whenever they want to play a song.

Under The Copyright Act any viewing or exhibition of a video in a public place (theatres are considered public places) must have Public Performance Rights. P.P.R. rights can be added into the cost of the video at the time of purchase. Written confirmation of permission must be obtained from the copyright holder and kept on file.

You might want to read this page from the Motion picture association of American in regards to public performance law, logan.

http://www.mpaa.org/contentprotection/public-performance-law

What is a Public Performance?
Suppose you invite a few friends over to watch a movie or a TV show that’s no longer available on TV. You buy or rent a DVD or Blue-ray disc from the corner store or a digital video file from an online store and show the film or TV episode in your home that night. Have you violated copyright law by illegally "publicly performing" the movie or show? Of course not.

But suppose you took the same movie or TV episode and showed it to patrons at a club or bar that you happen to manage. In that case, you have infringed the copyright in the video work. Simply put, movies or TV shows obtained through a brick-and-mortar or online store are licensed for your private use; they are not licensed for exhibition to the public.

Why is the Creative Community Concerned About Such Performances?
The concept of "public performance" is central to copyright. If filmmakers, authors, playwrights, musicians and game designers do not retain ownership of their works, then there is little incentive for them to continue creating high-quality works in the future and there is little incentive for others to finance the creation of those works.

The Law
The Federal Copyright Act (Title 17 of the U.S. Code) governs how copyrighted materials, such as movies, may be used. Neither the rental nor the purchase of a copy of a copyrighted work carries with it the right to publicly exhibit the work. No additional license is required to privately view a movie or other copyrighted work with a few friends and family or in certain narrowly defined face-to-face teaching activities. However, bars, restaurants, private clubs, prisons, lodges, factories, summer camps, public libraries, daycare facilities, parks and recreation departments, churches and non-classroom use at schools and universities are all examples of situations where a public performance license must be obtained. This legal requirement applies regardless of whether an admission fee is charged, whether the institution or organization is commercial or non-profit, or whether a federal or state agency is involved.

Legal Sanctions
"Willful" infringement of these rules concerning public performances for commercial or financial gain is a federal crime carrying a maximum sentence of up to five years in jail and/or a $250,000 fine. Even inadvertent infringement is subject to substantial civil damages.

It's Easy to Obtain a Public Performance License
Obtaining a public performance license is easy and usually requires no more than a phone call. Fees are determined by such factors as the number of times a particular movie is going to be shown, how large the audience will be and so forth. While fees vary, they are generally inexpensive for smaller audiences. Most licensing fees are based on a particular performance or set of performances for specified films. The major firms that handle these licenses include:

Criterion Pictures
www.criterionpicusa.com
(800) 890-9494

Motion Picture Licensing Corporation
www.mplc.com
(800) 462-8855

Swank Motion Pictures, Inc.
www.swank.com
(800) 876-5577

In other specialized markets, such as hotels and motels, many studios choose to handle licensing arrangements directly.

[logansryche]

read up and then stick your foot in your mouth.. i just addressed this.

[rainingbitcoins]

No it wouldn't because you'd be charging them for VIP access, but even if it was totally free, you still couldn't do it. Haven't you ever read the FBI warning at the beginning of every movie you've ever rented?

Thats rented movies lol. There's a license you can get that allows you to display movie publicly.

You're the one who made it sound like you were going to head down to Wal-Mart and scoop up a pile of DVDs for your theater:

Actualy, if I went out and bought every film on dvd and showed it to anyone who has VIP acess, it would be technically a free showing.

I stand by my previous statements.

All of the greatest business visionaries bury their heads in the sand at the first sign of trouble.

[repentance]

Fees are determined by such factors as the number of times a particular movie is going to be shown, how large the audience will be and so forth. While fees vary, they are generally inexpensive for smaller audiences. Most licensing fees are based on a particular performance or set of performances for specified films.

What this means is that your public performance license defines the number or times and/or the time period for which you can publicly show the movie.  It doesn't give you the right to show it as often as you want indefinitely.

[logansryche]

What this means is that your public performance license defines the number or times and/or the time period for which you can publicly show the movie.  It doesn't give you the right to show it as often as you want indefinitely.

No, of course not. The whole VIP thing was just an idea.. an incentive to get people to donate.
It's off the board now, as it would probly cost me more in the longrun.

[repentance]

I've actually just completed a project which involved assessing the viability of a music company opening a bricks and mortar store in a certain location.  They certainly have the funds to do it, but they needed to know a lot more about potential demand before making a decision.  

You could conduct your own research of this kind.  The kinds of things you need to know are how often people go to the cinema and how much they spend each time they go there.  This is especially important if you're looking at a very small population.  How many of those ~9000 people go to the movies weekly/monthly/rarely or not at all?  How much do they spend on average per visit (remember that much of the profit in cinemas comes from the concessions rather than the ticket sales)?  What age groups are the major movie-goers in the town (if you can only show two different movies at once, you need to pick those movies very carefully)?  Are there businesses nearby which might help make the cinema more popular - people often want to grab dinner and a movie or go somewhere for food or drinks after a movie and which particular cinema those people go to will be influenced by what the pre and after movie options are in your town.  Those people will travel elsewhere to see their movie if the options in your town aren't appealing.

Sometimes such research reveals that a business would be unlikely make a profit in a given location or if a certain model is used.  The reason why you research that information first is so that you don't spend a whole lot of time, energy and money on due diligence issues unless there's a reasonable possibility that the project might be viable in some way.  

[repentance]

Regardless of what I think about the merits of this proposal, it's been an interesting thought exercise just pondering all the information that I'd want to know before even planning it as a project.  They're only the things which occurred to me in a couple of hours - I'm sure I'd think of a great many more over time.

[logansryche]

Regardless of what I think about the merits of this proposal, it's been an interesting thought exercise just pondering all the information that I'd want to know before even planning it as a project.  They're only the things which occurred to me in a couple of hours - I'm sure I'd think of a great many more over time.

I hope to be here to answer them for ya.. that or someone else'll step in and answer.

[BadBear]

I may be interested in investing, what's your experience in business/management, or do you have a portfolio outlining who you are and your previous accomplishments?  Do you have a business plan, income projections, or a market analysis of the town the theatre is in?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Curious: I wonder if the $25,000 (1930--before inflation) organ is still in there. http://books.google.com/books?id=K2XGCqGu4-0C&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=%22hub+theatre%22+rochelle&source=bl&ots=mCGQy1rFn3&sig=Uw5buF_v2IFjMcryNWX1Kggjn2o&hl=en&ei=nFupToz6KcmFsgLWj42lDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAjge#v=onepage&q=%22hub%20theatre%22%20rochelle&f=false

[Jalum]

I would like a third of a million dollars, a portion of which can be pretend internet money mailed to an untraceable wallet link.  This is to restart a failed business in a field I have no experience and have done no research on save looking at a website.  But before you criticize, please know that I have a friend in the area who has agreed to take photos of the location through the shutters, so obviously it shows I'm a go-getter and champion.  You're correct that I cannot be bothered to even pick up a telephone or do the simplest fact check because, let's face it, I have no skin in this game.  Can I even accept donations legally?  Fuck if I know. 

You're a terrible person if you bring up my recent past of having to take out a loan from my girlfriend to refund someone $4 due to my incompetence or failed scam.  Obviously when I'm in the position to handle a hundred thousand times more money, I will do a hundred thousand times better.

[logansryche]

Curious: I wonder if the $25,000 (1930--before inflation) organ is still in there. http://books.google.com/books?id=K2XGCqGu4-0C&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=%22hub+theatre%22+rochelle&source=bl&ots=mCGQy1rFn3&sig=Uw5buF_v2IFjMcryNWX1Kggjn2o&hl=en&ei=nFupToz6KcmFsgLWj42lDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAjge#v=onepage&q=%22hub%20theatre%22%20rochelle&f=false

Oh wow, I must have overlooked that document. Seriously: I thought I found everything on the hub, and then that appears lol.

I may be interested in investing, what's your experience in business/management, or do you have a portfolio outlining who you are and your previous accomplishments?  Do you have a business plan, income projections, or a market analysis of the town the theatre is in?

The only real experience in business management is the group I ran in SL for a number of years. I did take a management class once but it was passed off as course credit instead of an actual certificate. I can direct you to several people and their email address that can contest to how well I run things. I do have a business plan, the median income is $35k a year. I spent 8 months living in Rochelle and know all of downtown and most of the outskirts like the back of my hand. Besides the theater, there are maybe one or two other places that are up for sale/lease.

I would like a third of a million dollars, a portion of which can be pretend internet money mailed to an untraceable wallet link.  This is to restart a failed business in a field I have no experience and have done no research on save looking at a website.  But before you criticize, please know that I have a friend in the area who has agreed to take photos of the location through the shutters, so obviously it shows I'm a go-getter and champion.  You're correct that I cannot be bothered to even pick up a telephone or do the simplest fact check because, let's face it, I have no skin in this game.  Can I even accept donations legally?  Fuck if I know. 

You're a terrible person if you bring up my recent past of having to take out a loan from my girlfriend to refund someone $4 due to my incompetence or failed scam.  Obviously when I'm in the position to handle a hundred thousand times more money, I will do a hundred thousand times better.

You do? wow.. blows the mind.