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Author Topic: ZenCash | Horizen - Officially Announces NO ANTI-ASIC FORK - RIP GPU Miners  (Read 877 times)
VoskCoin (OP)
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August 29, 2018, 07:00:35 PM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 02:41:02 PM by VoskCoin
 #1

Personally I'm very disappointed to read this, ZenCash was a big reason I really ramped up my GPU mining farm. Today they have officially stated that they will not be forking to a new mining algorithm, what are your thoughts on this?

https://bit.ly/Horizen


EDIT - Update - Streamed my 2c on this, tons of community feedback in the live chat (which can be seen as the video is replayed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBW31Oz3LGI



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeKY0pls8


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tupac70
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August 29, 2018, 07:09:54 PM
 #2

does not want to break away from zcash
gameboy366
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August 29, 2018, 07:26:16 PM
 #3

They will all eat dust. I think GPU mineable algos will be the upcoming trend. There is a big niche, a big community and a big market (gpu miner) waiting to become loyal supporters.
The more powerful ASIC becomes, more powerful will be the asic-resistant algos.
Those projects who were after easy money and gave up soon will regret later, when real competition enters.
FrozenChaos
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August 29, 2018, 07:58:01 PM
 #4

They will all eat dust. I think GPU mineable algos will be the upcoming trend. There is a big niche, a big community and a big market (gpu miner) waiting to become loyal supporters.
The more powerful ASIC becomes, more powerful will be the asic-resistant algos.
Those projects who were after easy money and gave up soon will regret later, when real competition enters.

GPU miners will always have something to mine. When BTC moved to ASICs, scrypt happened, then X11, then ethash and equihash. The main issue nowadays is that Bitmain has achieved such scale that they can ramp up production faster, assuming coins are worthwhile to manufacture an ASIC for.
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August 29, 2018, 08:18:57 PM
 #5

They will all eat dust. I think GPU mineable algos will be the upcoming trend. There is a big niche, a big community and a big market (gpu miner) waiting to become loyal supporters.
The more powerful ASIC becomes, more powerful will be the asic-resistant algos.
Those projects who were after easy money and gave up soon will regret later, when real competition enters.

GPU miners will always have something to mine. When BTC moved to ASICs, scrypt happened, then X11, then ethash and equihash. The main issue nowadays is that Bitmain has achieved such scale that they can ramp up production faster, assuming coins are worthwhile to manufacture an ASIC for.
When the other miners move from the other coin, it will be a disaster due to the fact that, our profitability ration will be much lower.
martyroz
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August 29, 2018, 10:20:29 PM
 #6

The pessimist in me says:
ASIC miners are holders, GPU miners are sellers / leasers.
Holders don't sell.
Scarcity increases price.
VoskCoin (OP)
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August 30, 2018, 02:37:06 PM
 #7

streamed my 2c on zencash horizen rebrand and their choose to remain an ASIC algo coin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBW31Oz3LGI

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Kompik
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August 30, 2018, 09:49:00 PM
 #8

Looks like the developer there's no truly ASIC resistant PoW algorithm and it's only matter of time until ASIC manufacture create another one, especially if they only slightly tweak it's PoW algorithm just like Monero which is extremely difficult.
But if they don't care about significant network hashrate change or don't care about hard-fork, then it shouldn't be difficult task for developer.

I suggest OP read this article (ASIC Resistance is Nothing but a Blockchain Buzzword), then you might understand their decision.
ProgPow

Bitrated user: Kompik.
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August 30, 2018, 10:35:12 PM
 #9

Looks like the developer there's no truly ASIC resistant PoW algorithm and it's only matter of time until ASIC manufacture create another one, especially if they only slightly tweak it's PoW algorithm just like Monero which is extremely difficult.
But if they don't care about significant network hashrate change or don't care about hard-fork, then it shouldn't be difficult task for developer.

I suggest OP read this article (ASIC Resistance is Nothing but a Blockchain Buzzword), then you might understand their decision.
ProgPow

Yes, ProgPoW is the best we currently have against ASICs and while nothing is truly ASIC proof it would buy a significant amount of time to hold off massive ASIC farms until further improvements can be developed.

I feel the real reason most of these teams are deciding against making any changes to the algo is lack of knowledge in the area. As much as they spout off about how great their version of a copy/paste coin is from its derived parent, they really have little to no real coding skills.

It is fairly trivial for anyone with even a passing interest in programming to copy/paste a coin's code from Github and create their own derivative from it. Simple name changes and adjusting a few well understood parameters means you can superficially create a new coin, but at its heart it is still chained to its parent code base.

I myself have created about a half dozen workable forks from various coins simply for learning and experimenting, and could have easily launched yet another worthless shitcoin to the world if I had wanted. Most of these similar types of coins will update their code only once the parent code base is modified for any non-superficial changes.

For real changes such as modifying the underlying mining algo, requires a much deeper understanding and also breaks them away from their safety line of being just able to fork from the main parent anytime a significant security or other change is required.

Anyway, I have personally began to sell off and limit my exposure to many of these me-too coins, Zencash included, as I really do not see a future for them once the initial euphoria has wore off, and I think the euphoria is running out fast with the current bear market. Once the overall crypto market does recover, I think the only coins that will significantly rise again will be the unique or main coins, BTC, ETH, ZEC, Monero, etc and all of the clones will stay at low prices and eventually become worthless as they bring no real meaningful contribution to the space.
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August 30, 2018, 10:45:21 PM
 #10

To this day the only argument people have against ASICs is that it has damaged the profitability of their personal GPU rigs. GPU miners are purely motivated by greed, and could care less about any of these coins and what they are used for. The BS claims about centralization everyone likes to parrot are really pretty meaningless. There are already large scale GPU farms out there, I have personally managed over 12k GPUs at my farm. Buying and running an ASIC at home is much more cost effective than building a GPU rig these days.

I personally replaced my 50 GTX 1070s with a single z9 mini at home while dropping power consumption from nearly 8000 watts down to a tiny, quiet 400w device that takes up hardly any space. This train of ASIC hate makes no sense nor is this feeling of entitlement that the devs of coin XYZ you are mining have some responsibility to counter ASICs just because you are gracing them with your hash rate. You and your 2 overpriced GPU rigs in the corner of your house are not doing anything meaningful, get over yourself.
stolarzz
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August 30, 2018, 11:06:24 PM
 #11

To this day the only argument people have against ASICs is that it has damaged the profitability of their personal GPU rigs. GPU miners are purely motivated by greed, and could care less about any of these coins and what they are used for. The BS claims about centralization everyone likes to parrot are really pretty meaningless. There are already large scale GPU farms out there, I have personally managed over 12k GPUs at my farm. Buying and running an ASIC at home is much more cost effective than building a GPU rig these days.

I personally replaced my 50 GTX 1070s with a single z9 mini at home while dropping power consumption from nearly 8000 watts down to a tiny, quiet 400w device that takes up hardly any space. This train of ASIC hate makes no sense nor is this feeling of entitlement that the devs of coin XYZ you are mining have some responsibility to counter ASICs just because you are gracing them with your hash rate. You and your 2 overpriced GPU rigs in the corner of your house are not doing anything meaningful, get over yourself.
Ok but those 50 1070s gave you over150usd/day pure profit few months ago. This one Z9 mini gives you 10usd/day and have no resale value soon Smiley
fanatic26_
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August 30, 2018, 11:53:11 PM
 #12

Ok but those 50 1070s gave you over150usd/day pure profit few months ago. This one Z9 mini gives you 10usd/day and have no resale value soon Smiley

They were never that profitable, maybe half that at best. That profit was the result of a hyper inflated market and chances are we will never see anything like that again. This isnt an industry where you can look at a specific point in time in the past and say "look at how good this stuff is" because that data is completely irrelevant.

Also for the price of those 50 cards you can buy 24 z9 minis and make $240 a day....
arielbit
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August 31, 2018, 04:23:00 AM
 #13

I think zencash devs have enough coins to pos so they don't/won't care, just like zcash mining tax...devs got their cut so...."network security is a priority" hehe.
Marvell2
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August 31, 2018, 05:03:32 AM
 #14

Ok but those 50 1070s gave you over150usd/day pure profit few months ago. This one Z9 mini gives you 10usd/day and have no resale value soon Smiley

They were never that profitable, maybe half that at best. That profit was the result of a hyper inflated market and chances are we will never see anything like that again. This isnt an industry where you can look at a specific point in time in the past and say "look at how good this stuff is" because that data is completely irrelevant.

Also for the price of those 50 cards you can buy 24 z9 minis and make $240 a day....

you’re a terrible miner if you didn’t make at least $150 a day with 50 gpus before asics killed profit in 2017 that or you were late to the party and are buthurt u missed fat gains.

No worries by batch 4 that z9 will be a nice spaceheater like my A3s B3s and S9s
fanatic26_
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August 31, 2018, 04:54:44 PM
 #15


you’re a terrible miner if you didn’t make at least $150 a day with 50 gpus before asics killed profit in 2017 that or you were late to the party and are buthurt u missed fat gains.

No worries by batch 4 that z9 will be a nice spaceheater like my A3s B3s and S9s


I got most of the GPUs later in 2017 but honestly it was just pocket change so I didnt really care to optimize or tweak anything, I had more important things to do.

I like that you quote A3 and B3 which were both piece of crap for a junk algo, anyone who bought those deserves to lose their ass for such a dumb investment.

S9s however are a whole other story. The 96ph worth of S9s im running still seem to make a decent profit at about $20k per day after electric.....
tsik
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August 31, 2018, 05:59:38 PM
 #16

oh man, really disappointing to see this. not good for the price as well. will just be a mining for roi coin.. aka constant sell pressure.
sabercrypto
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September 01, 2018, 02:06:52 PM
 #17

rip horizen instead
FFI2013
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September 01, 2018, 02:59:51 PM
 #18

Ya they are to scared to try anything new because its called follow the leader and zcash is their leader but its ok hopefully ETH will implement progpow which they are talking seriously about and monero is going to not only keep asic off their chain but fpga's, it's crazy that out of all these coins only a few aren't copies at the core and a few are standing up to bitmain
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September 02, 2018, 08:45:39 AM
 #19

oh man, really disappointing to see this. not good for the price as well. will just be a mining for roi coin.. aka constant sell pressure.

Zencash will be controlled by super, secure nodes and ASIC miners.
QuantumProofGhost
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September 04, 2018, 11:15:57 PM
 #20

The pessimist in me says:
ASIC miners are holders, GPU miners are sellers / leasers.
Holders don't sell.
Scarcity increases price.


Large scale GPU miners sell. The people who just mine with their main computers and maybe get an extra GPU or 2 don't have high electric cost forcing them to sell their coinage.
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