TREZOR HARD WALLETS ISSUE

[daniel854]

Possible SCAM?

I would also like to warn people about TREZOR.. They say that they are the safeset crypto storage out there.. But let me share with you a recent experience. We had over 100k stored on our trezor. Only ever used 1 trezor only ever had 1 set of seed words. The recent update wiped the trezor… I wasnt to concerend as i have the seed words in several safe locations and did a dry test a while back.. Once i recovered i was left with a wallet from October 2017 with around 2 dollars in it… Reaching out to trezor has been useless.. customer and tech support is zero. I hired a provate tech and after 1 month he worked out there was a previous bug in their updates and it wiped the old seed words and generated a new set of seed words automatically… We have over 100k sitting on wallets and they can not be accessed… Your money is not safe on Trezor. They dont allow you the private keys to each individual wallet.. Just a set of seed words that cover the entire device. I had several accounts set up inside and can not access the individual wallets. My suggestion is stay away from this over rated USB stick. Use a seperate mobile device offline and store in something like BITWALLET or Bread etc or Electrum… Its a real reality check that while this happens every day adoption is a lifetime away

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[TryNinja]

This doesn't make sense. If you have the same seed that you set up on the first day you bought your Trezor, your coins will be there regardless of any update that Trezor does.

You can just import your seed into a different wallet like Electrum to restore it (which may compromise your seed, since it's not isolated in the hardware device anymore) and spend your coins from there. If you didn't do anything wrong, you can easily recover them without even using the Trezor.

[Rath_]

How does your transaction history look like? There must be some trace left after your bitcoins. Even if your TREZOR somehow managed to wipe and initialize itself (it sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?), you would have noticed that (no PIN and labels). Storing $100k worth of crypto on a single device is not a wise idea. I would use a multi-signature setup in such case.

You can access specific accounts by modifying the derivation path while importing your seed to Electrum. You don't have to buy a new device.

This doesn't make sense. If you have the same seed that you set up on the first day you bought your Trezor, your coins will be there regardless of any update that Trezor does.

There is a slight chance that something goes wrong. One of my seeds was determined as invalid by the same TREZOR which generated it. OP claims that he had tested it.

[ttookk]

This doesn't make sense. If you have the same seed that you set up on the first day you bought your Trezor, your coins will be there regardless of any update that Trezor does.

(…)

Not if it happened the other way around:

- First set of seed words written down.

- Weird bug generates new seed, OP doesn't notice it.

- Sends to address derived from new seed

- Trezor dies, old seed contains the two Dollars they sent to test it, new seed was never written down.


I am not familiar with Trezor, but since OP is talking about a "we", there is a slight chance that a less adept person tried to access the wallet, somehow botched it, then set up the new seed, not knowing what they did and assuming everything is fine. If they knew the original PIN/passphrase, OP wouldn't notice.

[TryNinja]

~

Well, to be fair I always thought resetting your device and restoring it again with the seed to see if the addresses are the same should be a mandatory step.

But btw, I'm not trying to defend Trezor as they shouldn't have this kind of major bug that generates a new seed out of nowhere (I still don't think they do, but I'm not going to deny the possibility). It's better if we just wait for more details from OP.

[Rickorick]

This doesn't make sense. If you have the same seed that you set up on the first day you bought your Trezor, your coins will be there regardless of any update that Trezor does.

(…)

Not if it happened the other way around:

- First set of seed words written down.

- Weird bug generates new seed, OP doesn't notice it.

- Sends to address derived from new seed

- Trezor dies, old seed contains the two Dollars they sent to test it, new seed was never written down.


I am not familiar with Trezor, but since OP is talking about a "we", there is a slight chance that a less adept person tried to access the wallet, somehow botched it, then set up the new seed, not knowing what they did and assuming everything is fine. If they knew the original PIN/passphrase, OP wouldn't notice.

This makes sense, same thing happened to me and user HCP has been trying to help Me, but to no avail.

[ttookk]

(…)

This makes sense, same thing happened to me and user HCP has been trying to help Me, but to no avail.

You mean the bug thing or that someone reset your Trezor without you noticing?

I only have a Ledger and I think I would notice if the seed would have changed, because the desktop application would show no funds. I'm still a little puzzled by how someone wouldn't notice this, but am not familiar with Trezors UI. Is this a UI issue maybe?

[HCP]

I hired a provate tech and after 1 month he worked out there was a previous bug in their updates and it wiped the old seed words and generated a new set of seed words automatically…

Do you have any hard proof of this? Is there anything in the GitHub history to back this claim up?

A flaw like this would be quite "unsettling"... 

I find it hard to imagine that a change like this would be go unnoticed, as a new set of words would result in all your history and balance vanishing. Something, most people would notice immediately... Surely?

[DarkStar_]

I hired a provate tech and after 1 month he worked out there was a previous bug in their updates and it wiped the old seed words and generated a new set of seed words automatically…

Do you have any hard proof of this? Is there anything in the GitHub history to back this claim up?

A flaw like this would be quite "unsettling"... 

I find it hard to imagine that a change like this would be go unnoticed, as a new set of words would result in all your history and balance vanishing. Something, most people would notice immediately... Surely?

Definitely. The 'bug' would have had to send all of the wallet user's funds to the new addresses somehow, and I'm sure people would panic if they receive BTC to a previous address. I've had my Trezor for almost a year now, with zero issues and reusing a single address many times.

If anything, Trezor might have just changed the derivation path for new wallets by default (switching to Segwit addresses for example)


"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

daniel854, get your tech to find the code that did this on Github and you'll attract real attention.

[philipma1957]

First off how on earth do you store 100 k worth of stuff on only one trezor.

I have three trezors.

I have one Coinbase wallet.

I have three wallets with blockchain info.

Lastly I have a Bitcoin qt wallet.

If. My trezor calls for a firmware update I don’t do it.  I first move the coin to a different wallet.

. I leave like 0.00000012 btc I do the firmware I check to see the new update kept the coin.

I transfer like 0.0010 back.

I see it took .

I transfer the 0.0005 of the 0.0010 to Coinbase.

Assume all this works I fill the trezor back to normal level.

I do this for all three trezors.

My position is this:

Coinbase
Trezor
Blockchain info wallets all have more power over my coins then I like.

So I have seven accounts between them.

My bitcoin core wallet I am pretty much in charge of so I try to back it up via clones.

Yeah it is a lot of extra work.  But so far I have had only one issue I locked an ETH core wallet with two coins and have yet to access them.

A lot less then 100k. But still annoying.

[daniel854]

no this trezor that I have mentioned does not belong to me, what happened was,
I have joined in so called crypto trading and sent some funds. Surprisingly, a few days later person who owns this trezor with our funds in it, sent a message on the group to let us know that all of the funds were wiped out after he had installed a newer version of a firmware of trezor, which resulted ''wiping'' our funds  as well as '' his '' $100.000 worth of crypto. I personally have got NO IDEA how that happen, and in what order pressuming that he states the truth

I am going ask a short question. Do You all believe that I Have been scammed? If so how do I prove it ?

Please help

[Lucius]

no this trezor that I have mentioned does not belong to me, what happened was, I have joined in so called crypto trading and sent some funds. Surprisingly a few days later person who owns this trezor got panicked after all of the funds were wiped out including '' his '' 100.000 worth of crypto

I am going ask a short question. Have I been scammed?

Please help

I'd say you're a scammed in a very classical and old way. First someone ask you to send money to him with promise that will invest that money and make you some profit. Then that person says that the money was stolen or lost. In this way with crypto it is much easier to carry out such a fraud, you probably do not know who is person you send BTC, and you can not verify if he/she is tells the truth.

Although there is some chance that this person is have some problem with Trezor, or he become victim of hack - but this looks like a classic case of fraud...

[daniel854]

but I want to know it for sure, how do I prove it? 100%  I mean how do I find out?  Oh and I would forget:

the owner of the unfortunate trezor asked to share it on social media etc. So I did

[ttookk]

but I want to know it for sure, how do I prove it? 100%  I mean how do I find out?  Oh and I would forget:

the owner of the unfortunate trezor asked to share it on social media etc. So I did

Well if you know the address where the 100k is/was stored, you could check on a block explorer if it moved. If it did, you've been scammed. If it didn't, you still may have been scammed

[gentlemand]

but I want to know it for sure, how do I prove it? 100%  I mean how do I find out?  Oh and I would forget:

the owner of the unfortunate trezor asked to share it on social media etc. So I did

Never heard of this problem from anyone else and it would certainly be shouted from the rooftops if it was a known bug.

I was intrigued until your man's 'story' popped up.

Which has higher odds - a potentially catastrophic and previously unpublicised bug affecting everyone, or a scammer stringing you along?

[Billy550]

Dude based on you explanation of this issue, you have been scammed. A couple of quesitons: has this "investor" giving you the wallet address the funds were stored in? if so please check that they are still there and clarify his/her calim that 100k of his/her own funds are there? then check for any recent transactions on this address/adresses. If you see recent transactions, this this is a clear sign its a scam. if you sent money blindly and they refuse to provide addresses, then you have clearly been scammed I am afriad, i do realise you can track addresses but if money was sent to exchanges and traded then you can lose the trail. Seconodly if you know this person or have any idea of their identity, then use this to your advantage and try revoery your funds via legal action or expose them. I would believe you do not know the identity, as most scammers cover up their identity but on the offchance you know this person then use it.

This space is full of scammers and you can never trust anybody. i do realise that this person could be legit, and if his/her claim is correct about the update causing a bug, then wow this will cause some real upsets in the community. If this is the case can you provide us with some technical data or proof,? so maybe we could help here?. I am sure there are people here who could aid in this, I am not technical minded enough to help sorry. If this person shows no proof of finding techical solutions, then I am sorry but its the old classical crypto scam.

[HCP]

Agree with there others... 100% confident that this is a scam.

Ask for proof of the addresses... Also check the address you deposited the funds to.

If the "investor" is not willing to provide proof, or comes up with excuses... Then chances are you have been scammed. If you find that all the coins have been moved, then you have been scammed... How would the coins move if the "investor" didn't have access to the coins?

[redpola]

They dont allow you the private keys to each individual wallet.. Just a set of seed words that cover the entire device. I had several accounts set up inside and can not access the individual wallets.

From the seed words you can derive every private key and every public key for every account on the device.

This makes the device, its firmware, the company that makes it, and their support mechanisms completely irrelevant, as should be the case in a trustless system.