Blatant Price Manipulation

[FreedomFeens]

Hey everybody.  We would all like to think the price is up because new people are getting into bitcoin and fiat inflows are expanding as people can now see that the demise of gox did not kill bitcoin.  However, when you go to blockchain.info and click on the largest transactions, you see that on 3/3 and 3/4 MASSIVE trading is going on.  The bitcoin trading market is around $60 million, so when big players trade millions in bitcoin back and forth they are increasing the value of their own bitcoins and the value of ours as well.  Might seem like a good thing, but makes me feel uneasy because it makes you wonder how much of the value is actually due to these big players and not average people. 

[1714173434]

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[igroock]

Um, you do realize its an open market, right? They can do whatever they want with their bitcoin.

[FreedomFeens]

Yea of course, i have no problem with that.  I'm a voluntaryist, it's just that i want to hear what people think about it.

[thejewelrytech]

Actually most of these BIG PLAYERS are doing the opposite keeping  the price down! sure they will let it rise a bit here and there but the price of Bitcoin should be well in the $1,000's with current network Difficulty and cost of mining it and The hardware to mine it it's far from cheap.......
They use FAKE BUY WALLS  to make sure it doesn't RISE there's a reason why these PUMP n DUMPS TACTICS are ILLEGAL with STOCKS and GOLd! just so they can buy it Cheaper! but they get away with it since it Bitcoin is unregulated and most the Public is too DUMB to realize But they are the first one's to loose all their Bitcoins to Hacking of Exchanges so they get what they deserve in THE END   and if anyone says it should be this cheap obviously has NEVER MINED a day in their LIFE and just wants to  continue  too Pump n Dump! lol

[FreedomFeens]

Could you explain more how the fake buy walls work?  In response to the poster above, bitcoin should remain unregulated.  That discussion is settled imo with common sense.

[thejewelrytech]

 A Whale will put up a Buy wall at a set price like say he doesn't want the price to Rise past 650$ he will take anywhere from 50 to a couple hundred coins and PRETEND TO SELL THEM @650 then another 100 coins at 651 and 20 coins @ 652 and so on and so on creating a Wall that would take Tens of THOUSANdS of DollArs to MOVE that pretty much can't be done unless your very wealthy or THE PUBLic bUYS lIKE CRAZY!He can do this because he has  hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions..........
 If people start BUYing UP HE PULLS THE COINS FROM EVER BEING SOLD and Never Loses!He doesn't really want to Sell thEm! Just Use them to keep the price leveraged and pancaked in his BUYING RANGE Knowing the public doesn't have the Funds to Buy The COINs and move him! The PRICE WON"T MOVE. This gives a ILLUSION of PANIC SELLS  also and People who don't know better end up selling into it below this price and The Whale BUYS more and he Rinses and REPEatS it or he even Sells all the way down till thiers no BUY Support left so he can establish his own price level  for when people try to sell their coins later they have to abide to the price created and he or they can BUY CHEAP!
 This might explain it to you better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

[FreedomFeens]

thank you

[genco]

Nice explanation, but I take exception to one point: your premise that there isn't enough money to buy cheap coins and Break through the wall.  (I don't accept the premise because  there are literally billions of dollars on wall street). Real situation is there isn't enough people that think the coins are cheap, so a whale is trades with himself to convince new suckers that the price is right.

Bitcoin isn't a currency or a security that's why macro TA doesn't work. It’s a speculative investment that has turned into a Ponzi scheme. Best case scenario is that it really Does take off and no one gets burned, but I doubt it.

[odolvlobo]

Hey everybody.  We would all like to think the price is up because new people are getting into bitcoin and fiat inflows are expanding as people can now see that the demise of gox did not kill bitcoin.  However, when you go to blockchain.info and click on the largest transactions, you see that on 3/3 and 3/4 MASSIVE trading is going on.  The bitcoin trading market is around $60 million, so when big players trade millions in bitcoin back and forth they are increasing the value of their own bitcoins and the value of ours as well.  Might seem like a good thing, but makes me feel uneasy because it makes you wonder how much of the value is actually due to these big players and not average people.  

I hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but there is no reason to believe that those large transactions on the block chain are related to bitcoin trading. They are likely to be just an exchange moving its money around.

[odolvlobo]

A Whale will put up a Buy wall at a set price like say he doesn't want the price to Rise past 650$ he will take anywhere from 50 to a couple hundred coins and PRETEND TO SELL THEM @650 then another 100 coins at 651 and 20 coins @ 652 and so on and so on creating a Wall that would take Tens of THOUSANdS of DollArs to MOVE that pretty much can't be done unless your very wealthy or THE PUBLic bUYS lIKE CRAZY!He can do this because he has  hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions..........
 If people start BUYing UP HE PULLS THE COINS FROM EVER BEING SOLD and Never Loses!He doesn't really want to Sell thEm! Just Use them to keep the price leveraged and pancaked in his BUYING RANGE Knowing the public doesn't have the Funds to Buy The COINs and move him! The PRICE WON"T MOVE. This gives a ILLUSION of PANIC SELLS  also and People who don't know better end up selling into it below this price and The Whale BUYS more and he Rinses and REPEatS it or he even Sells all the way down till thiers no BUY Support left so he can establish his own price level  for when people try to sell their coins later they have to abide to the price created and he or they can BUY CHEAP!
 This might explain it to you better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

That is stupid.

You say that he puts up a lot of coins at around $650, for example, to keep the price from rising past that. But then you write that when people start buying at that price he takes the asks down. Obviously he fails at trying to keep the price below $650 if he has to take down his wall to avoid selling.

Prices not moving doesn't give the illusion of panic sells, even if you write it in all caps. Furthermore, selling to drive down the price usually ends up in a loss because the price falls before the sale. Think about a flash crash. The seller dumps a bunch of coins on the market at really low prices and buyers buy up the coins at those low prices. The price returns to normal and the seller loses. This kind of manipulation only happens in movies because in reality it is a huge gamble and the odds of success are low.

Finally, please read your own link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump). You don't understand pump and dump. An excerpt:

"Pump and dump" (P&D) is a form of microcap stock fraud that involves artificially inflating the price of an owned stock through false and misleading positive statements, in order to sell the cheaply purchased stock at a higher price. Once the operators of the scheme "dump" their overvalued shares ...

[Coins4life]

A Whale will put up a Buy wall at a set price like say he doesn't want the price to Rise past 650$ he will take anywhere from 50 to a couple hundred coins and PRETEND TO SELL THEM @650 then another 100 coins at 651 and 20 coins @ 652 and so on and so on creating a Wall that would take Tens of THOUSANdS of DollArs to MOVE that pretty much can't be done unless your very wealthy or THE PUBLic bUYS lIKE CRAZY!He can do this because he has  hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions..........
 If people start BUYing UP HE PULLS THE COINS FROM EVER BEING SOLD and Never Loses!He doesn't really want to Sell thEm! Just Use them to keep the price leveraged and pancaked in his BUYING RANGE Knowing the public doesn't have the Funds to Buy The COINs and move him! The PRICE WON"T MOVE. This gives a ILLUSION of PANIC SELLS  also and People who don't know better end up selling into it below this price and The Whale BUYS more and he Rinses and REPEatS it or he even Sells all the way down till thiers no BUY Support left so he can establish his own price level  for when people try to sell their coins later they have to abide to the price created and he or they can BUY CHEAP!
 This might explain it to you better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

Like your explanation

[Anon136]

Actually most of these BIG PLAYERS are doing the opposite keeping  the price down! sure they will let it rise a bit here and there but the price of Bitcoin should be well in the $1,000's with current network Difficulty and cost of mining it and The hardware to mine it it's far from cheap.......
They use FAKE BUY WALLS  to make sure it doesn't RISE there's a reason why these PUMP n DUMPS TACTICS are ILLEGAL with STOCKS and GOLd! just so they can buy it Cheaper! but they get away with it since it Bitcoin is unregulated and most the Public is too DUMB to realize But they are the first one's to loose all their Bitcoins to Hacking of Exchanges so they get what they deserve in THE END   and if anyone says it should be this cheap obviously has NEVER MINED a day in their LIFE and just wants to  continue  too Pump n Dump! lol

THANKS for THE clarification FRIEND.

[Hunterbunter]

You say that he puts up a lot of coins at around $650, for example, to keep the price from rising past that. But then you write that when people start buying at that price he takes the asks down. Obviously he fails at trying to keep the price below $650 if he has to take down his wall to avoid selling.

Prices not moving doesn't give the illusion of panic sells, even if you write it in all caps. Furthermore, selling to drive down the price usually ends up in a loss because the price falls before the sale. Think about a flash crash. The seller dumps a bunch of coins on the market at really low prices and buyers buy up the coins at those low prices. The price returns to normal and the seller loses. This kind of manipulation only happens in movies because in reality it is a huge gamble and the odds of success are low.

Finally, please read your own link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump). You don't understand pump and dump. An excerpt:

"Pump and dump" (P&D) is a form of microcap stock fraud that involves artificially inflating the price of an owned stock through false and misleading positive statements, in order to sell the cheaply purchased stock at a higher price. Once the operators of the scheme "dump" their overvalued shares ...

Yeah, this is exactly what people like Wolong are doing. They did it with Doge, then with Devcoins, but then the btc market fell down before he finished with that (or he did anyway, who knows).