[AUCTION] Art Bitcoin Pizza Metal Panel from frankbitcoin

[Rambotnic]

Well i won this awesome picture from here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4941597
Long story short: Sadly there is big taxes in my country to receive it (VAT + Customs) because it comes from oversea and im not able to pay for them.
The shipping will be from frankbitcoin because the customs will return the picture to him.
Consider it will be shipped from frankbitcoin ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1208052 ) if you don't trust his feedback we can always use escrow.
The best part will be if someone from US like it because there won't be any taxes from him.
If you are from different country than US expect there will be Customs+VAT fees which i cannot handle.
I believe frank offers free shipping to US, but if there is any costs you should handle them also.
I had chance to see it and it looks awesome!
I was so happy winning this but sadly for me someone else will be the happy owner of it.
Based on the original giveaway thread it costs 0.14btc.

STARTING BID: 0.1BTC
MINIMUM BID INCREMENT: 0.01BTC
End Date: SEPTEMBER 13, 2018 @ 00:00 GMT



Pic:

[1714744797]

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[1714744797]

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[1714744797]

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[frankbitcoin]

No.

We are not reshipping anything anyone wins in this auction.  We are not responsible for retrieving your gift from Customs, nor reshipping it to any customer who participates in your auction.  The item is not even in our possession, it's at Customs.  If you'd like to pay for the item at Customs and then offer it for auction, that is of course completely acceptable and up to you.  But we are not responsible for retrieving this item and reshipping it to someone who bids on your auction.

This auction is not valid and we are not a participant in this.

Since this was a giveaway and this receiver cannot pay Customs, we will redraw the contest once the item has been returned to us.  We will determine a block to redraw the giveaway once it has been returned.

Breakdown:

This person won our Free Giveaway for the metal panel.  They then messaged and asked us to pay Customs charges.  We are not responsible for Customs charges, as listed on our website.  Despite us marking the item as a Gift and including a note that the item was won in a contest, Customs still requested VAT charges.  We do not pay VAT charges.  This is per the requirement of the Country's laws.

Hard to believe that I give something away for free and I get harrassed in messages to pay for Customs charges (after I mailed out a $900 product with an $85 shipping charge)

[Rambotnic]

Customs will return it back to you because i can't release it.
I can't release it because as i told you in private message i can't pay the taxes so they will turn it back to you.
So the item will be back to your hands and no one else than you can ship it because the customs will turn it back to you and you only.

I told you in private message that if you want to giveaway a free item it should be real free item.
For me that's not free because i must pay almost 300$ to own it.
For people like me who is oversea that kind of information should be available.
I won something that's not free for me at all.
I ask you in private message can i re-sell this and you said yes.
If there is something which disturb you please explain it to me so i could fix my thread.
Why you even using the word harrassed ?
If you offer something free it should be free.
Its not free for me, if i want to have it i should pay 25% fees of the original price
And i dont want to sell it, i just dont have other option because i can't pay that fees.
And you blaming me after agreeing to re-sell it that im trying to sell it just because that's not free item for me ?
I don't really understand you.
Before i create this thread i ask you can i re-sell it. The answer was yes.
If you like to offer something as "Free" it should be as the all the meanings of the word... Item cannot be called free if you should pay to own it.
You should know about customs fees if you had/have any international buyers of your stuff.
Im really thankful for your giveaway and i do love the painting, don't get me wrong.
I just told you before you send it oversea to not write it costs 900$.
Which you also should do because no matter what laws you think will broke that, you don't sell that item, you gifting it.
I was kind and nice to explain you the problem before it even exists but you didn't even listen me.
You are not forced to put price on gift as you did.
If you had send it as gift with no value i would never have to pay cent for it.
Im not also sure why u wanted to put it worth 900$ consider i don't care it costs 1 or 1,000,000.
That's something i won and im proud of that and im super happy about it.
There was ways for us to do this by the easy way but you just wanted to put price for the customs for it no matter its gift.

*This action is VALID and you are not participant on it.
You are just the kind man who gave us opportunity to win your giveaway.
I was the winner.
So the item is now mine based on your giveaway thread.
Consider i have no position of the item and it will be turn back to you, you and only you can re-ship it to someone else because you will be the only one who will have position of it.
Customs are allowed to turn back the item only to the original sender which is you.

[frankbitcoin]

Customs will return it back to you because i can't release it.
I can't release it because as i told you in private message i can't pay the taxes so they will turn it back to you.
So the item will be back to your hands and no one else than you can ship it because the customs will turn it back to you and you only.

I told you in private message that if you want to giveaway a free item it should be real free item.
For me that's not free because i must pay almost 300$ to own it.
For people like me who is oversea that kind of information should be available.
I won something that's not free for me at all.
I ask you in private message can i re-sell this and you said yes.
If there is something which disturb you please explain it to me so i could fix my thread.
Why you even using the word harrassed ?
If you offer something free it should be free.
Its not free for me, if i want to have it i should pay 25% fees of the original price
And i dont want to sell it, i just dont have other option because i can't pay that fees.
And you blaming me after agreeing to re-sell it that im trying to sell it just because that's not free item for me ?
I don't really understand you.
Before i create this thread i ask you can i re-sell it. The answer was yes.

*This action is VALID and you are not participant on it.
You are just the kind man who gave us opportunity to win your giveaway.
I was the winner.
So the item is now mine based on your giveaway thread.
Consider i have no position of the item and it will be turn back to you, you and only you can re-ship it to someone else because you will be the only one who will have position of it.
Customs are allowed to turn back the item only to the original sender which is you.

It's not valid in the sense that you are saying I will ship it out to the winner of this auction.  I have no role in this auction.  Like I said, you are welcome to resell it and ship it out yourself if you'd like to.

If I receive it back, I will redraw the contest.

I'm sorry that Customs charges were not fully disclosed to you directly.  They are, however, listed on our website.

Furthermore, anytime someone wins something, regardless of what it is, the Government will always get their share.  This is standard. We are not responsible for taxes nor can we control them.  If you win the lottery, you have a tax due.  If you win a car, there is a tax obligation. 

[Rambotnic]

I didn't bought this picture to know whats on your website, i won it at your giveaway and there is nothing about the international winners should pay fees.
I don't understand, consider im winner and owner of this picture, how you can withdraw something that's not yours anymore ?
I mean that's the point of the giveaways right ? Once its won its now to the new owner?
I don't see also a problem to ship it to someone else after he pay the shipping costs?
You had no problem for me to re-sell it because i can't pay the customs fees but you have problem to re-send it to someone because i can't pick it?
We are friendly community and shit happens like the customs...
Understand my problem same as im understanding that im not receiving a free item in the full meaning of the word.

[frankbitcoin]

I didn't bought this picture to know whats on your website, i won it at your giveaway and there is nothing about the international winners should pay fees.
I don't understand, consider im winner and owner of this picture, how you can withdraw something that's not yours anymore ?
I mean that's the point of the giveaways right ? Once its won its now to the new owner?
I don't see also a problem to ship it to someone else after he pay the shipping costs?
You had no problem for me to re-sell it because i can't pay the customs fees but you have problem to re-send it to someone because i can't pick it?
We are friendly community and shit happens like the customs...
Understand my problem same as im understanding that im not receiving a free item in the full meaning of the word.

Once again.  We do not control taxes from your government.

This is a government requirement.

i.e. - when you win the lottery, you have taxes due.

[BitElevation]

But if you refuse the shipment due to customs, how can it be considered that you are the owner? You refused to take delivery.....  

[Rambotnic]

That's item not a lottery.
It was won from lottery but consider the winner is oversea there should be some information about there may be taxes and stuff like that.
If i know there will be any taxes i would never even spend time to post on that thread wasting your time and my time.
That art is super beautiful and im so proud i won it ! I love it.
Sadly i can't have it because i have to pay high to own it.
And consider im the new owner and you agree that i can re-sell it, and consider i can't pick it because of the high fee and the customs will return it to you, i don't see a single reason why you can re-ship it to someone ?
If that will cost you any troubles or money for your time, i will pay for your time shipping it if that's the problem.
But withdrawing my win just because im not able to pay money to own the item i won is not really nice.
Be friendly, be understanding, be human in first part

[buckrogers]

I didn't bought this picture to know whats on your website, i won it at your giveaway and there is nothing about the international winners should pay fees.
I don't understand, consider im winner and owner of this picture, how you can withdraw something that's not yours anymore ?
I mean that's the point of the giveaways right ? Once its won its now to the new owner?
I don't see also a problem to ship it to someone else after he pay the shipping costs?
You had no problem for me to re-sell it because i can't pay the customs fees but you have problem to re-send it to someone because i can't pick it?
We are friendly community and shit happens like the customs...
Understand my problem same as im understanding that im not receiving a free item in the full meaning of the word.

Dude, you got a free gift, customs is customs and has charged fees for many many years now, its not Frank's responsibility to inform anyone on a FREE giveaway that they need to do their due diligence and see what their specific country does as far as import tax.

Plus it's kind of a slap in the face for you to assume Frank would be responsible for anything other than him sending you the FREE GIFT.

If you can't pay for the customs fees, thats not really his problem, as you didnt pay for anything.

Also, its unfair to simply assume that Frank would take responsibility to deal with customs on your behalf without even talking to him first and create an auction thread, looping him in as part of the deal where you clearly state:  

The shipping will be from frankbitcoin because the customs will return the picture to him.
Consider it will be shipped from frankbitcoin ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1208052 ) if you don't trust his feedback we can always use escrow.
The best part will be if someone from US like it because there won't be any taxes from him.

kind of a ballsy move dont you think?

I wouldn't hold Frank responsible for anything at this point relating to this thread. The man even offered to re-draw for a new winner (which he doesnt have to by the way)

I'd suggest you check yourself and your posting etiquette first.

thanks!

[frankbitcoin]

But if you refuse the shipment due to customs, how can it be considered that you are the owner? You refused to take delivery.....  

Right.  He is more than welcome to sell his gift.  But first he needs to pay his Customs charges due and have the item in his posession (rather than saying that he is refusing it, sending it back to us, and that we are somehow responsible for this auction - which we are not)

He can take part of the money earned from the auction and pay Customs, if that's what he'd like to do.  And then he'll be in posession of the item and can ship it himself directly to the winner.

[Rambotnic]

But if you refuse the shipment due to customs, how can it be considered that you are the owner? You refused to take delivery.....  

Dude, really ? Ofc im not refusing the shipment Is this some bad joke or just a post count ?
I do not refuse to take my item and own it, i just don't have the money and i didn't know i should pay something to own it.
Im not refusing the delivery ofc and even if i refused it which is not the case, when you become owner of something even if you refuse to pick it you still remain the owner, the thing just wait you somewhere till you want to pick it, because you are owner of it.
Jeez..

[Rambotnic]

I didn't bought this picture to know whats on your website, i won it at your giveaway and there is nothing about the international winners should pay fees.
I don't understand, consider im winner and owner of this picture, how you can withdraw something that's not yours anymore ?
I mean that's the point of the giveaways right ? Once its won its now to the new owner?
I don't see also a problem to ship it to someone else after he pay the shipping costs?
You had no problem for me to re-sell it because i can't pay the customs fees but you have problem to re-send it to someone because i can't pick it?
We are friendly community and shit happens like the customs...
Understand my problem same as im understanding that im not receiving a free item in the full meaning of the word.

Dude, you got a free gift, customs is customs and has charged fees for many many years now, its not Frank's responsibility to inform anyone on a FREE giveaway that they need to do their due diligence and see what their specific country does as far as import tax.

Plus it's kind of a slap in the face for you to assume Frank would be responsible for anything other than him sending you the FREE GIFT.

If you can't pay for the customs fees, thats not really his problem, as you didnt pay for anything.

Also, its unfair to simply assume that Frank would take responsibility to deal with customs on your behalf without even talking to him first and create an auction thread, looping him in as part of the deal where you clearly state:  

The shipping will be from frankbitcoin because the customs will return the picture to him.
Consider it will be shipped from frankbitcoin ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1208052 ) if you don't trust his feedback we can always use escrow.
The best part will be if someone from US like it because there won't be any taxes from him.

kind of a ballsy move dont you think?

I wouldn't hold Frank responsible for anything at this point relating to this thread. The man even offered to re-draw for a new winner (which he doesnt have to by the way)

I'd suggest you check yourself and your posting etiquette first.

thanks!

Consider that's Frank's thread, he's the one who should inform everyone and not me in special.
We all should be informed whats next.
Why he should re-draw for new winner consider there is already a winner and that's me ? You want your shot ? Well you had your chance.
I check myself every time before i post or say something.
Once you want to offer a real free giveaway it should be free.
Once someone won something its his.

[owlcatz]

Here's a bright idea IMO- Frank - When you get the item back (assuming it's not damaged etc) -

Re-run the original raffle and include shipping charges on top! - I would gladly pay you the shipping charges on top of my raffle entry. Or shit, run a new raffle, I'd be in?

Thanks! Sorry to all parties in this current mess!

[Rambotnic]

Its funny how everyone wants a new raffle on item which was already own and im the new owner
Sad people here sad
Everyone trying to bite when the dog is on the floor.

[owlcatz]

Its funny how everyone wants a new raffle on item which was already own and im the new owner
Sad people here sad
Everyone trying to bite when the dog is on the floor.

Hey Idiot - You can't pay the customs fee's so it's going back to the seller. What don't you get?  

[frankbitcoin]

But if you refuse the shipment due to customs, how can it be considered that you are the owner? You refused to take delivery.....  

Dude, really ? Ofc im not refusing the shipment Is this some bad joke or just a post count ?
I do not refuse to take my item and own it, i just don't have the money and i didn't know i should pay something to own it.
Im not refusing the delivery ofc and even if i refused it which is not the case, when you become owner of something even if you refuse to pick it you still remain the owner, the thing just wait you somewhere till you want to pick it, because you are owner of it.
Jeez..

You clearly said you were sending it back.  In your thread creation you said:

"The shipping will be from frankbitcoin because the customs will return the picture to him."

So, let me be perfectly clear, here:

If you do not pick the item up from Customs and it is returned to our company, you will no longer be the owner of this artwork and we will redraw the contest.

[BitElevation]

But if you refuse the shipment due to customs, how can it be considered that you are the owner? You refused to take delivery.....  

Dude, really ? Ofc im not refusing the shipment Is this some bad joke or just a post count ?
I do not refuse to take my item and own it, i just don't have the money and i didn't know i should pay something to own it.
Im not refusing the delivery ofc and even if i refused it which is not the case, when you become owner of something even if you refuse to pick it you still remain the owner, the thing just wait you somewhere till you want to pick it, because you are owner of it.
Jeez..

If you can't pay for something, you are refusing to accept it. Simple cause and effect. If you refuse something, no matter the reasoning behind it, makes you a "non-owner"... Pretty simple, open and close.

Just because you won the item means nothing if you don't accept it. As you mentioned in another response, you would pay Frank to resend and for his time... How do you know it's not more than the taxes in your country?

[pt]

But if you refuse the shipment due to customs, how can it be considered that you are the owner? You refused to take delivery.....  

Dude, really ? Ofc im not refusing the shipment Is this some bad joke or just a post count ?
I do not refuse to take my item and own it, i just don't have the money and i didn't know i should pay something to own it.
Im not refusing the delivery ofc and even if i refused it which is not the case, when you become owner of something even if you refuse to pick it you still remain the owner, the thing just wait you somewhere till you want to pick it, because you are owner of it.
Jeez..

You are trying to sell something you don't own. Either pay the tax collect your Art or refuse it.

What you should have done is contact Frank prior to making this post. Worked out all the details before trying to sell something you don't have possession of.

This is a giant mess that could have been avoided. You should have known Customs would have wanted Duties/Fees.

[buckrogers]

I didn't bought this picture to know whats on your website, i won it at your giveaway and there is nothing about the international winners should pay fees.
I don't understand, consider im winner and owner of this picture, how you can withdraw something that's not yours anymore ?
I mean that's the point of the giveaways right ? Once its won its now to the new owner?
I don't see also a problem to ship it to someone else after he pay the shipping costs?
You had no problem for me to re-sell it because i can't pay the customs fees but you have problem to re-send it to someone because i can't pick it?
We are friendly community and shit happens like the customs...
Understand my problem same as im understanding that im not receiving a free item in the full meaning of the word.

Dude, you got a free gift, customs is customs and has charged fees for many many years now, its not Frank's responsibility to inform anyone on a FREE giveaway that they need to do their due diligence and see what their specific country does as far as import tax.

Plus it's kind of a slap in the face for you to assume Frank would be responsible for anything other than him sending you the FREE GIFT.

If you can't pay for the customs fees, thats not really his problem, as you didnt pay for anything.

Also, its unfair to simply assume that Frank would take responsibility to deal with customs on your behalf without even talking to him first and create an auction thread, looping him in as part of the deal where you clearly state:  

The shipping will be from frankbitcoin because the customs will return the picture to him.
Consider it will be shipped from frankbitcoin ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1208052 ) if you don't trust his feedback we can always use escrow.
The best part will be if someone from US like it because there won't be any taxes from him.

kind of a ballsy move dont you think?

I wouldn't hold Frank responsible for anything at this point relating to this thread. The man even offered to re-draw for a new winner (which he doesnt have to by the way)

I'd suggest you check yourself and your posting etiquette first.

thanks!

Consider that's Frank's thread, he's the one who should inform everyone and not me in special.
We all should be informed whats next.
Why he should re-draw for new winner consider there is already a winner and that's me ? You want your shot ? Well you had your chance.
I check myself every time before i post or say something.
Once you want to offer a real free giveaway it should be free.
Once someone won something its his.

The man said in his OP:

We will cover shipping cost, as well - yes, even if you are international.  This is completely free.

So he paid for shipping - internationally even, kept up his end of his FREE bargain lol and you won a free gift, but refuse to pay the customs fee, which is not anyones responsibility but your own, do you see the issue with your statements here?

you sound foolish.

I am not upset i didn't win the FREE gift, lol

If I did win id say thank you very much and be on my way, as im sure anyone else who won would have and not come back to the Gift giver and say - I can't pay customs, sell this for me, etc?
im surprised you are even continuing in this conversation.

Thanks!

[Rambotnic]

I can't stop laugh going to close this thread because it brings me cancer.