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Author Topic: Considering about to collect tax about crypto currency  (Read 307 times)
tactac
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September 06, 2018, 08:38:24 AM
 #1

As crypto currency trading often use overseas exchanges, it seems to be a problem for the nation that difficult to catch taxation and to be unable to collect tax. Then, at what timing should be collected tax about the crypto currency?
I do not know whether it is technically possible, but I consider about it.

①At the time of filing tax returns
・Calculate income by myself and pay tax.
・To calculate profits is very complexity.
・This is the way of my country, Japan.

②At the time of purchasing of crypto currency
・For example, we withhold 10% tax at the time of purchase at exchange, and settle tax at the time of realization of profit orloss by real tax return.
・Collecting tax collects at the entrance, tax leakage are reduced.
・Difficult to catch the profit and loss on overseas exchanges.
・Tax collected at the time of purchase, the purchase amount will be less than the invested funds.

③At the time of sending crypto currency from exchange
・For example, we withhold 10% tax at the time of send crypto currency to foreign exchange or wallet from domestic exchanges, and settle tax at the time of realization of profit orloss by real tax return.
・Nation can reduce the risk of being unable to catch taxation by using overseas exchanges. At least it will not be taxable at all.
・Funds for trading on overseas exchanges will be less.

④At the time of sold
・For example, if we get profits at the sale at the exchange,we will withhold 10% tax, and settle tax at the time of realization of profit orloss by real tax return.
・Difficult to catch the profit and loss on overseas exchanges.

⑤At the time of change to fiat
・Tax the difference between the amount of fiat at the time of purchase and the amount of fiat at the time of sale.
・Easy to calculate tax and can ensure the fund to pay tax.

What do you think about this?
I think No② or ④ is better.

In any case, I think it is necessary to have an international cooperation system.
What kind of method is adopted to collect tax,in your country?

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September 06, 2018, 08:59:05 AM
 #2

I don't think having an international uniform method is necessary. I assume most countries currently fall under number 1, which is basically the default option outside special regulations.

I'm not sure about withholding taxes. Wouldn't they make things more complicated just because crypto is so volatile? Time of purchase is probably the most ideal time to apply it though.

By cooperation, do you mean sharing taxpayer info between countries? I personally wouldn't be very comfortable with that.

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September 06, 2018, 02:06:10 PM
 #3

By cooperation, do you mean sharing taxpayer info between countries? I personally wouldn't be very comfortable with that.

I mean shareing trade history report, and that make me uncomfortable as well. But even now Japanese government seeks the submission of reports to domestic exchanges and strengthens regulations on foreign exchanges.
If government can not grasp the transaction history on foreign exchanges, people will use foreign exchanges to escape tax, and crypto become a hotbed of tax evasion. I think it's not good for the future development of crypto.

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September 06, 2018, 06:47:16 PM
 #4

If government can not grasp the transaction history on foreign exchanges, people will use foreign exchanges to escape tax, and crypto become a hotbed of tax evasion. I think it's not good for the future development of crypto.
If you read through the TOS of nearly every regulated and semi regulated exchange or service, you'll see that they will share potentially all data with the government in case there is a request to do so.

I don't think it matters much if the exchange is foreign or not, especially when you take into consideration that except from a few select countries, pretty much everyone can use an exchange.

It's not for nothing that various exchanges have decided not to allow US registrants anymore, because the US government doesn't care where you're exchange is located. If they want something from you, they'll get it.

Bitfinex and BitMEX both don't allow US registrants, but you can bet on it that the US government will jump in if they feel it's time to do so.

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September 07, 2018, 04:22:06 AM
 #5

Indeed, the collection of taxes on profits in the crypto currency for each state will be very difficult, considering that exchanges and exchangers mostly citizens will use those outside the state where they must provide a tax report. Therefore, this activity will mainly be laid on citizens in the light of their good faith. Only if the state tax services becomes aware of individual facts of citizens' activities, from which the need to pay taxes follows, they will be able to verify such information. And this tax should be moderate, so as not to drive the activity on the use of crypto currency in the shadow.

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September 07, 2018, 12:33:21 PM
 #6

Usually countries tax the profits once a year and your profits are based on the crypto -fiat transactions. If you have $100 and buy crypto, then sell it later that year for $200 your profit is $100. If you're supposed to pay 10% tax, it will be $10. This is the most uniform rule. Some countries are trying to make people declare their crypto holdings and pay taxes even if no conversion to fiat money takes place. IMO this is dumb, unjust and impossible to enforce.

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September 07, 2018, 02:07:12 PM
 #7

In my country you only are obligated to pay 18% tax from your income, whether it was from cryptocurrencies or anything else. This tax is to high though in my opinion and makes a lot of people move out.
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September 08, 2018, 08:53:34 AM
 #8

In my country you only are obligated to pay 18% tax from your income, whether it was from cryptocurrencies or anything else. This tax is to high though in my opinion and makes a lot of people move out.

Excuse me sir, from what country are you in?  I haven't heard or read about paying tax in crytpocurrency industry?  What is the process of your country for example you have to pay as a cryptocurrency user?  And what kind of cryptocurrency are you using? Regards.

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tactac
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September 08, 2018, 02:58:08 PM
 #9

In my country you only are obligated to pay 18% tax from your income, whether it was from cryptocurrencies or anything else. This tax is to high though in my opinion and makes a lot of people move out.


I think 18% is not high. In my country,Japan tax rate of the profit from stock trading is 20%. And people are also asking to apply a tax rate of 20% for profits from crypto currency trading. Currently, the profit from trading of crypto currency is combined with other profit, such as salary, and be taxed by following tax rate. Very high.

~1,950,000yen (approximately $ 17,700                                       15%
1,950,000yen~3,300,000yen(approximately $ 17,700 to $ 30,000)          20%   
3,300,000yen~6,950,000yen(approximately $ 30,000 - $ 63,200)          30%   
6,950,000yen~9,000,000yen(approximately $ 63,200 to $ 81,800)          33%
9,000,000yen~18,000,000yen(approximately $ 81,800 to $ 163,600)      43%   
18,000,000yen~40,000,000yen(approximately $ 163,600 to $ 363,600)   50%   
40,000,000yen~(approximately $ 363,600)                                            55%   

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September 08, 2018, 07:59:16 PM
 #10

I think 18% is not high. In my country,Japan tax rate of the profit from stock trading is 20%.

I think these percentages are high in my opinion. Meaning a labourer will spend large portion of his labour gains on just one aspect of his life which is tax, feeding ,shelter plus other life exigencies have not been added. For me, 10% is ok following from at least the biblical guide of giving out 10% of monthly proceed to God's house.

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September 09, 2018, 11:30:20 AM
 #11

I am fairly glad that my country does not care about bitcoin. Perhaps because bitcoin is not very known in here. There is no law that makes it legal or illegal. But I think if you used it for illegal purposes like buying drugs or weapons, it would be deemed as illegal. Therefore, there are no taxes needed. On the other hand, the government surely will interfere if people get to know about bitcoin and start relying on the blockchain technology.


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September 09, 2018, 03:22:55 PM
 #12

I am fairly glad that my country does not care about bitcoin. Perhaps because bitcoin is not very known in here. There is no law that makes it legal or illegal. But I think if you used it for illegal purposes like buying drugs or weapons, it would be deemed as illegal. Therefore, there are no taxes needed. On the other hand, the government surely will interfere if people get to know about bitcoin and start relying on the blockchain technology.
The same situation as here in my country the government is quite enough on cryptocurrencies not having any law regarding on that. They did not announce whether it is legal or illegal or which is prohibited and tax-free to all citizen here who using bitcoin. Still, people can make illegal activities using bitcoin but so far I never heard somebody who used in illegal or maybe I don't know.
There's no problem with me if my country implements for taxation I think that is a small amount that we can afford to lose, besides, I am happy to know if we can contribute for our economic growth using our small amount in collecting a tax.

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September 09, 2018, 03:23:57 PM
 #13

Therefore, there are no taxes needed.

No taxes needed?? Is not tax imposed on the profits from trading? I envy you... Which country are you from??

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September 09, 2018, 05:29:37 PM
 #14

In any case, I think it is necessary to have an international cooperation system.

That means turning every human on Earth into a slave.
I will never pay any tax on my BTC profits, just like I've stopped paying income tax in 1997. I suggest you leave your country right away, and never go back. Less money going to governments is more money for you and your family.

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September 09, 2018, 10:05:57 PM
 #15

That means turning every human on Earth into a slave.
I will never pay any tax on my BTC profits, just like I've stopped paying income tax in 1997.

It depends on the country that you have ran to. If you have eloped to a country where they don't joke with tax issues, you will still be traced and hooked to pay up your tax and if they also tax on bitcoin, you will be made to pay up.

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September 10, 2018, 09:19:07 AM
 #16

From the government's point of view, obviously 2 and 4 combined would make the best outcome for them.

However, in reality, this is extremely hard to enforce. Since bitcoin taxes are mostly in the form of CGT, it's difficult if not impossible to calculate or forecast someone's profits or losses just from a purchase alone.

In my country, you simply return any CGT or income tax that you incur from bitcoin trading or employment with your tax return. I'd expect that this would be the case for most other countries as well, unless a GST is also present.

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September 10, 2018, 12:13:40 PM
 #17

I think setting an international standard is good but the problem I see here is most of the countries have their own version of the taxing system in their country and an international standard will create a lot of concflicts with their local taxing system.

The most logical way is for international exchanges to cooperate locally on countries they have customers by providing trading transaction records set by the customer. This would be enough transparency for them to have a correct audit when needed. This is being done right now by Coinbase as a help for the US government to identify their citizens who are not paying the right taxes.

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September 11, 2018, 04:39:09 AM
 #18

In my country you only are obligated to pay 18% tax from your income, whether it was from cryptocurrencies or anything else. This tax is to high though in my opinion and makes a lot of people move out.
It is important here that states do not set too high tax rates, otherwise they risk driving the currency into the shadows and the state will not receive the amount in taxes that it could receive when establishing a minimum tax rate.
 So, for example, now in the news section the topic is discussed that in Ukraine can impose a tax of 19.5 percent of profits in the crypto currency. And the government wants to introduce such a tax even before the adoption of the relevant laws on the regulation of the crypto currency. As one of the four draft laws submitted to the legislative body of the country, is the introduction of a five percent tax. I am sure that if this law is adopted, the state will be able to raise much more money than the one that provides a tax of 19.5 percent. If the tax is five percent. there will be no sense in avoiding paying it, it will be easier to pay and not have problems. But a tax of 19.5 percent is unlikely to be paid by many.

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September 11, 2018, 05:04:05 AM
 #19

In my opinion, taxes from activities in the crypto currency will be more calculated on the consciousness of the citizens themselves than on compulsory collection. I can not imagine how the state will be able to collect information about the country's crypto-currency transactions around the world to calculate the amount of tax payable. This will practically be impossible to do.

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September 11, 2018, 10:58:07 PM
 #20

That means turning every human on Earth into a slave.
I will never pay any tax on my BTC profits, just like I've stopped paying income tax in 1997.

It depends on the country that you have ran to. If you have eloped to a country where they don't joke with tax issues, you will still be traced and hooked to pay up your tax and if they also tax on bitcoin, you will be made to pay up.

No, sir. I will never pay income tax anymore. I'm not running, and no country can hook up with me for any reason. It hasn't been easy, but it's legal. I've been doing it for 20 years, so I know it works.

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