Marketplace Discussion and Suggestions

[Ludji]

I'd like to talk about the state of our Marketplace section. I've gotten a lot of business through BitcoinTalk and am very grateful for that. I've made some friends and some lasting business relationships. But, recently, the thing that worries me is the amount of low-quality posts in the marketplace. Not just threads, but meaningless posts only to increase post count.

I feel the marketplace has gotten out of hands. I try to post and warn on blatant scams so that people can be aware, but I don't like being the cop, especially since I'm just a Jr. Member. However, I've been doing business online for a long time and can spot scams right away, especially since most of them are "taken" from other forums and scammers are just not that creative(at least the ones we see most often).

Bitcointalk should implement some rules which will help combat Marketplace spam and restore its integrity. I'll throw out some of my suggestions and hope other people also join:

• Mod Approval of Marketplace Threads - this one I list first because I think it's the most important one. Without this, my other suggestions don't make much sense. Each and every Marketplace thread has to be approved by a mod, otherwise, it won't be posted. The way it works is if someone is selling a certain service, he is required to provide the mod a free sample of his service and the mod will then approve or decline his application with a review under the OP.  I realize mods are people too, but I think a lot of people and high ranking members would be happy to be mods for free OR they can be paid out of my next suggestions:

• Paid Marketplace Membership - I realize a lot of people will be against this, but I think a symbolic sum of $50-$100 a year to be a Marketplace seller would weed out at least the low-effort scammers and spammers. If you're a serious seller, it pays itself quite fast. Also, you're literally advertising on the forum, just not "officially". That should cost something.

• Paid Marketplace Threads - now this can be a separate solution OR it can even be implemented along with the paid membership. What this means is 1 service - 1 thread, around $20 per thread I think is a fair price and will help keep sellers and services organized(myself included).

This thread is meant to be as a discussion, not just as my ramble, so any feedback or suggestions are welcome. I really hope the mods join in, as I think it's an important topic regarding the reputation of the forum also. I know the forum has nothing to do with the sellers, but it's still happening on BTCTalk "grounds" thus impacting its reputation in my opinion.

[joniboini]

Mod Approval of Marketplace Threads - this one I list first because I think it's the most important one. Without this, my other suggestions don't make much sense. Each and every Marketplace thread has to be approved by a mod, otherwise, it won't be posted. I realize mods are people too, but I think a lot of people and high ranking members would be happy to be mods for free OR they can be paid out of my next suggestions:

This will increase mod workloads, and then they'll be responsible for judging whether somebody wanted to scam or not, isn't it? This won't be efficient to tackle the problems that you pointed out. You can fight the spam by reporting the post/threads, and for the scam thing, you can warn people as long as you have enough evidence. If your rank makes you feel uneasy to warn others, just remember that what you post is what matters, your rank doesn't matter at all on scam investigations/accusations.

For your other idea, that sounds good to me, but I prefer the latter.

[nc50lc]

• Paid Marketplace Membership - I realize a lot of people will be against this, but I think a symbolic sum of $50-$100 a year to be a Marketplace seller would weed out at least the low-effort scammers and spammers. If you're a serious seller, it pays itself quite fast. Also, you're literally advertising on the forum, just not "officially". That should cost something.

Great, marketplace's yearly membership fee will be more expensive than my antivirus' licence.

The idea is quite good, with the right implementation rules and adjusted reasonable fee, I can agree to this.
But somehow, we're gonna lose some "gift cards" sales since any possible buyer must pay $100 before he can buy a $50 Bitmain Coupon.

• Paid Marketplace Threads - now this can be a separate solution OR it can even be implemented along with the paid membership. What this means is 1 service - 1 thread, around $20 per thread I think is a fair price and will help keep sellers and services organized(myself included).

So, we're gonna be needing a membership fee and another for posting a thread?
Bitcointalk will going to be a forum with a multi-million dollar revenue with this, theymos will gonna like this.
With that budget, Epochtalk will be up in no time.

[Ludji]

This will increase mod workloads, and then they'll be responsible for judging whether somebody wanted to scam or not, isn't it? This won't be efficient to tackle the problems that you pointed out. You can fight the spam by reporting the post/threads, and for the scam thing, you can warn people as long as you have enough evidence. If your rank makes you feel uneasy to warn others, just remember that what you post is what matters, your rank doesn't matter at all on scam investigations/accusations.

For your other idea, that sounds good to me, but I prefer the latter.

Well, they wouldn't be responsible for judging scams per se, rather evaluating sales threads and making sure they're up to the set standard. Starting sales threads would require more effort and people would actually have to treat it as a business.

Great, marketplace's yearly membership fee will be more expensive than my antivirus' licence.

The idea is quite good, with the right implementation rules and adjusted reasonable fee, I can agree to this.
But somehow, we're gonna lose some "gift cards" sales since any possible buyer must pay $100 before he can buy a $50 Bitmain Coupon.

Nobody's forcing you to be a seller and, honestly, if you don't make enough to support a 50-$100 yearly fee, then you got nothing to lose by not selling here. Of course, it can be adjusted and this just my suggestion, but I think it has to be something you can "feel" you are paying, not a meaningless fee.

Regarding the second part, buyers would not be affected by this, sorry if I wasn't clear on that. I repeat: Buyers would not be issued a Marketplace fee.

Keep the discussion going guys, thanks for replying!

[AdolfinWolf]

I think that simply disabling locked threads & self moderated threads for anyone under Hero/Legendary would go a long way aswell. It's mostly newbies posting autobuy links.

(Maybe completely prohibit the sales that are making use of autobuy links too? Most if not all of them are scams..)

Mod Approval of Marketplace Threads - this one I list first because I think it's the most important one. Without this, my other suggestions don't make much sense. Each and every Marketplace thread has to be approved by a mod, otherwise, it won't be posted. I realize mods are people too, but I think a lot of people and high ranking members would be happy to be mods for free OR they can be paid out of my next suggestions:

I doubt this will happen - what are the rules that determines whether or not your thread is worthy of being posted? Seems like there is a massive room for bias here.

• Paid Marketplace Threads - now this can be a separate solution OR it can even be implemented along with the paid membership. What this means is 1 service - 1 thread, around $20 per thread I think is a fair price and will help keep sellers and services organized(myself included).

So, we're gonna be needing a membership fee and another for posting a thread?
Bitcointalk will going to be a forum with a multi-million dollar revenue with this, theymos will gonna like this.
With that budget, Epochtalk will be up in no time.

I myself could probably reinvent the wheel for that budget too.

[Steamtyme]

Honestly all you can do is post and try to help. Anything Low quality or spammy can  be reported and hopefully get deleted. This would be the most action/effort I would expect from the Mods, is to deal with them on a case by case basis. Anything more will only create a backlog in people being able to post ADS, legitimate or not.

I would be opposed to a paid membership or paid threads, as that would create barriers to legitimate users possibly more so than scammers/spammers as they are more than willing to pay a small fee for a large ripoff. Once again I think we just need to use the tools we have to shape the forum in a way we want. This mostly comes down to what you are doing, report threads, and post your questions where things seem scammy. Your rank won't matter if the questions are valid.

I haven't been making my rounds through the physical goods section as often but I was posting these guidelines on any threads I felt were lacking information.

[Taki]

Mod Approval of Marketplace Threads - this one I list first because I think it's the most important one. Without this, my other suggestions don't make much sense. Each and every Marketplace thread has to be approved by a mod, otherwise, it won't be posted. I realize mods are people too, but I think a lot of people and high ranking members would be happy to be mods for free OR they can be paid out of my next suggestions:

This will increase mod workloads, and then they'll be responsible for judging whether somebody wanted to scam or not, isn't it? This won't be efficient to tackle the problems that you pointed out. You can fight the spam by reporting the post/threads, and for the scam thing, you can warn people as long as you have enough evidence. If your rank makes you feel uneasy to warn others, just remember that what you post is what matters, your rank doesn't matter at all on scam investigations/accusations.

For your other idea, that sounds good to me, but I prefer the latter.

The report to moderator on scammer or spammer is definitely good option that works, but I think the payment per post and ability to post in Marketplace section will nice additional action which will improve all board's work.

[Ludji]

I doubt this will happen - what are the rules that determines whether or not your thread is worthy of being posted? Seems like there is a massive room for bias here.

How about the marketplace mods have to try your service for free? That would give more legitimacy to the whole thing and would help weed out real services from fake ones. I think that's a good start. Also, room for bias? It's like saying that allowing mods to ban users gives room for bias.

The report to moderator on scammer or spammer is definitely good option that works, but I think the payment per post and ability to post in Marketplace section will nice additional action which will improve all board's work.

Thanks, Taki. I see users frowning upon the fee right away, but I thought as much. Like I've said, if you're actually earning from Bitcointalk then the fee pays itself very fast. I spend a lot of time in the Marketplace section and quite honestly it's full of broken English fake services. Since there is no limit who can post and how much, users just put up any kind of service and hope for at least 1 buyer until they make a new account and do the same.

Keep the suggestions going guys!

[hugeblack]

I do not think you mean the whole Marketplace but certain sections/Child Boards "specifically Goods & Currency exchange."
The main reason for low-quality posts is due to the inability of mods to delete it since scams aren't moderated.
Your solutions are somewhat arbitrary, especially the first solution/Suggestion.
Suggest the following:

 - A warning message that you must log in and check trust before an agreement.
 - Restrictions on some accounts "newbie + Jrmembers" to lock topics or create self-mod topics.

[MainIbem]

If given opportunity, some people will create a bitcointalk.org that will be very selective and segregating. What can be classified as rubbish post?  Don't we have moderators in every bitcointalk section?  Is the OP insinuating that the government is playing with its people?

[pugman]

• Mod Approval of Marketplace Threads - this one I list first because I think it's the most important one. Without this, my other suggestions don't make much sense. Each and every Marketplace thread has to be approved by a mod, otherwise, it won't be posted. I realize mods are people too, but I think a lot of people and high ranking members would be happy to be mods for free OR they can be paid out of my next suggestions:

Um..no. People will abuse this,just to annoy the mods. There is more to it, other things can happen too, and is not required. People may come here,bitch about how mods ruin lives,just like merit. And there are 26 mods(totally), the workload is already unbalanced, if I put it nicely.

• Paid Marketplace Membership - I realize a lot of people will be against this, but I think a symbolic sum of $50-$100 a year to be a Marketplace seller would weed out at least the low-effort scammers and spammers. If you're a serious seller, it pays itself quite fast. Also, you're literally advertising on the forum, just not "officially". That should cost something.

This is actually not bad. But then again, people will abuse this too. People who sell illegal cracked versions would make shit ton of money,and would easily get into this too. But not a bad idea, could be implemented, but will it?  

• Paid Marketplace Threads - now this can be a separate solution OR it can even be implemented along with the paid membership. What this means is 1 service - 1 thread, around $20 per thread I think is a fair price and will help keep sellers and services organized(myself included).

This is not the best idea, isn't the worst either, but is unnecessary. I get why you want this to be there, some may like this, some won't. I wouldn't mind if its there or not. Might be a pet peeve for a few members.

But the thing is, theymos doesn't even want donations, this would be a headache for him, to manage, to account all of this, so don't ever expect this to happen,or wait till 3018^TM for the new forum which was supposed to be out in 2014.  

[Ludji]

I do not think you mean the whole Marketplace but certain sections/Child Boards "specifically Goods & Currency exchange."
The main reason for low-quality posts is due to the inability of mods to delete it since scams aren't moderated.
Your solutions are somewhat arbitrary, especially the first solution/Suggestion.
Suggest the following:

 - A warning message that you must log in and check trust before an agreement.
 - Restrictions on some accounts "newbie + Jrmembers" to lock topics or create self-mod topics.

I think this wouldn't achieve anything at all. Thank you for the suggestions, but I believe they wouldn't change the current state of the Marketplace one bit. Also, I meant the whole Marketplace.

If given opportunity, some people will create a bitcointalk.org that will be very selective and segregating. What can be classified as rubbish post?  Don't we have moderators in every bitcointalk section?  Is the OP insinuating that the government is playing with its people?

You can't expect mods to delete every bad thread now in the Marketplace, at least half of them are scams. We all know what the bad posts are, one-liner service threads in broken English, obvious scams asking to contact them in PM, etc. Selective? Segregating? If by that you mean selecting quality posts and sellers, then yes, I'd like to make it like that.

Um..no. People will abuse this,just to annoy the mods. There is more to it, other things can happen too, and is not required. People may come here,bitch about how mods ruin lives,just like merit. And there are 26 mods(totally), the workload is already unbalanced, if I put it nicely.

Well, they couldn't abuse it if the post had to be paid, otherwise, they would be leaking money. People bitch, that's what they do, it would greatly reduce the scam number. I agree about the workload, specialized Marketplace mods are an option.

This is actually not bad. But then again, people will abuse this too. People who sell illegal cracked versions would make shit ton of money,and would easily get into this too. But not a bad idea, could be implemented, but will it?  

It's not about eliminating scams altogether, because that's impossible, even the most trusted member can run away with someone's money. It's about reducing the number of scams and shitposts so people can clearly weed them out. People still have to use their brain when making a deal, it's just much easier.

This is not the best idea, isn't the worst either, but is unnecessary. I get why you want this to be there, some may like this, some won't. I wouldn't mind if its there or not. Might be a pet peeve for a few members.

But the thing is, theymos doesn't even want donations, this would be a headache for him, to manage, to account all of this, so don't ever expect this to happen,or wait till 3018^TM for the new forum which was supposed to be out in 2014.  

I agree it would require a lot of work, unfortunately, as every big change does.

[Ludji]

Don't know if bumping is allowed in this section, but I'd appreciate creative criticism and discussion on this topic as I believe it's a very important one.

[hilariousandco]

Don't know if bumping is allowed in this section, but I'd appreciate creative criticism and discussion on this topic as I believe it's a very important one.

It's allowed. Just bump once every 24 hours and remove the previous 'bump' if that's all it is. New info/content doesn't need to be removed though.

[Alone055]

The thing is, most of the sections/boards are being used for totally opposite purposes than what they are supposed to be used for. Look at this post, does it really have anything to do with Marketplace? No! It is just a general discussion having no relativity with that section at all, but it is there. People don't care about where they should post their stuff or they simply don't know where they belong, and that is because they don't really want reasonable discussions but the sole purpose of doing that is either to increase the post quantity or a try to earn Merits. These are the most focused things on the forum right now, if we take out the average of all the users active right now.

Now, monetizing the forum is not a solution for finish such useless actions. Even if it reduces that, it would injustice for some people who hope they would run a service here but fail to do that. Because not every single person get success in offering their services in here, or anywhere. I know it is not a lot of money to ask, but there should be another way to tackle this. Besides, theymos won't even restrict the smaller ranks saying that it would effect the forum, I doubt he would even consider doing something like this, very soon.

[Ludji]

It's allowed. Just bump once every 24 hours and remove the previous 'bump' if that's all it is. New info/content doesn't need to be removed though.

Thanks. Would love to hear your opinion on this if possible.

The thing is, most of the sections/boards are being used for totally opposite purposes than what they are supposed to be used for. Look at this post, does it really have anything to do with Marketplace? No! It is just a general discussion having no relativity with that section at all, but it is there. People don't care about where they should post their stuff or they simply don't know where they belong, and that is because they don't really want reasonable discussions but the sole purpose of doing that is either to increase the post quantity or a try to earn Merits. These are the most focused things on the forum right now, if we take out the average of all the users active right now.

Now, monetizing the forum is not a solution for finish such useless actions. Even if it reduces that, it would injustice for some people who hope they would run a service here but fail to do that. Because not every single person get success in offering their services in here, or anywhere. I know it is not a lot of money to ask, but there should be another way to tackle this. Besides, theymos won't even restrict the smaller ranks saying that it would effect the forum, I doubt he would even consider doing something like this, very soon.

Well, not every person should start selling, then. Maybe only limiting the Service section? Would that be more appropriate? It's spam city now, a solution is what we need and a small fee or membership could help us regain the marketplace section.

[Jet Cash]

I've had a go at selling domain names through the market place, and it is a complete waste of time. Threads seem to drop onto the second of third index page fairly quickly, and I doubt if any serious domain name buyers would visit the board.

I believe that specific product boards would be beneficial, and they should be moderated by a person who understands the product. Bitcoin memorabilia, and domain names are two products that spring to mind. General categories just get spammed, and the worst threads seem to be auto-bumped.

[hilariousandco]

It's allowed. Just bump once every 24 hours and remove the previous 'bump' if that's all it is. New info/content doesn't need to be removed though.

Thanks. Would love to hear your opinion on this if possible.

The thing is, most of the sections/boards are being used for totally opposite purposes than what they are supposed to be used for. Look at this post, does it really have anything to do with Marketplace? No! It is just a general discussion having no relativity with that section at all, but it is there. People don't care about where they should post their stuff or they simply don't know where they belong, and that is because they don't really want reasonable discussions but the sole purpose of doing that is either to increase the post quantity or a try to earn Merits. These are the most focused things on the forum right now, if we take out the average of all the users active right now.

Now, monetizing the forum is not a solution for finish such useless actions. Even if it reduces that, it would injustice for some people who hope they would run a service here but fail to do that. Because not every single person get success in offering their services in here, or anywhere. I know it is not a lot of money to ask, but there should be another way to tackle this. Besides, theymos won't even restrict the smaller ranks saying that it would effect the forum, I doubt he would even consider doing something like this, very soon.

Well, not every person should start selling, then. Maybe only limiting the Service section? Would that be more appropriate? It's spam city now, a solution is what we need and a small fee or membership could help us regain the marketplace section.

That Marketplace board should probably be locked (if it can). It serves no purpose and can't have a description on it and as such is being used as a catch all for anything. I have no power or influence to have it locked though.

[Ludji]

I've had a go at selling domain names through the market place, and it is a complete waste of time. Threads seem to drop onto the second of third index page fairly quickly, and I doubt if any serious domain name buyers would visit the board.

I believe that specific product boards would be beneficial, and they should be moderated by a person who understands the product. Bitcoin memorabilia, and domain names are two products that spring to mind. General categories just get spammed, and the worst threads seem to be auto-bumped.

Yes, which is why I gave my suggestions. If the membership was paid or the threads had a fee there would be far less spam. Sellers who are serious and have put in the work wouldn't mind paying the fee because they understand it's business and it would pay out very fast. Specific product boards such as yours are too specific IMO, there's no need for segmenting the marketplace like that. Proper moderation of the current boards is needed, not segmentation.

That Marketplace board should probably be locked (if it can). It serves no purpose and can't have a description on it and as such is being used as a catch all for anything. I have no power or influence to have it locked though.

I feel that with proper moderation and filtering it could prove itself to be very useful. In this state, yeah, it should be locked until we come to a solution.

[Ludji]

I'd like to keep this thread alive, so bump!