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Author Topic: US Tariff Ruling N297495 = 2.6% mandatory tariff on bitcoin mining hardware  (Read 20173 times)
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September 15, 2018, 12:37:27 AM
 #21

So after thinking about this, would you consider the xilinx zynq chip to be programmable?
Sure, in the sense that you can write shell scripts, install software, serve webpages, etc.

But it would be impractical to use an antminer for anything besides mining.

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September 15, 2018, 12:44:51 AM
Last edit: September 15, 2018, 09:06:58 AM by frodocooper
 #22

Sure, in the sense that you can write shell scripts, install software, serve webpages, etc.

But it would be impractical to use an antminer for anything besides mining.

Impractical yes of course,  but customs definitions do not rely on practicality, just it can or cant be reprogrammed.
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September 15, 2018, 12:48:22 AM
Last edit: September 15, 2018, 09:08:27 AM by frodocooper
 #23

So after thinking about this, would you consider the xilinx zynq chip to be programmable?

Of course the xilinx SoC is programmable as is the ARM chip used on a RasPi and same for BeagleBone CPU's which are what Bitmain and others used before the s9.

However -- they just handle I/O to the ASIC processors but unlike feeding I/O to a bank of GPU's, the ASIC's have one function and one function only - process SHA256D hashes. That function cannot ever be changed (again unlike GPU's that can readily be programmed to do a plethora of number crunching functions). Those non-programmable super-speed ASIC's are what make any ASIC-based miner regardless of the embedded algo different from the exempt ADP machines. That designed for single purpose function is key to their speed and at the same time their downfall. Ask D3 owners about that.

In this case, that unchangeable core functionality means that by the Rulings any ASIC-based miner has the 2.6% duty assessment applied to it. We are buying these expensive miner to mine with and not to tear apart or re-purpose their relatively inexpensive I/O processors for mundane needs.

edit: In the case of Avalons, at least the controllers - which are just regular, fully programmable and otherwise very nice and useful RasPi's DO fall under the normal ADP exemptions. Just the miners themselves do not.
edit edit: Forgot about the 'data server - no terminal' distinction on the RasPi's so they are not complete ADP's.

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September 15, 2018, 01:18:10 AM
Last edit: September 15, 2018, 09:09:30 AM by frodocooper
 #24

Makes sense,

But on a side note, ras pi got hit with tarrifs back in july (we import those as well)  as they are part of an adp machine, they dont classify as full adp machine.  8473.30.20 Unless it includes crt.  switched to bangalore supllier now no tariff, but still the same strange classification.
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September 15, 2018, 01:19:24 AM
 #25

Well it appears to me that the new clarification of the classification of the miners is what is causing the additional import fees.

Even before the new 4/26/2018 to 12/31/2050 for 85437099 clasification, the old one from 7/1/2016 to 4/25/2018 under this 85437099 classification the import duties were the 2.6%

Its that now they are starting to understand what this equipment is and reclassifying it retroactively on new understandings.
-M
That is all very true however all large orders are going through import/export brokers or damn well should be for this very reason. It is the responsibility of a brokerage to ensure all applicable codes and fees are correct. When FedEx/UPS/DHL/etc tack on broker fees that is the service you are paying for. As such in my book if CBP wants retroactive fees - go after the brokerages that customers paid to do their jobs right.

forgot about the 'no terminal' subclass. edited post.

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September 16, 2018, 02:18:48 AM
Last edit: September 17, 2018, 11:24:31 PM by frodocooper
 #26

That is all very true however all large orders are going through import/export brokers or damn well should be for this very reason. It is the responsibility of a brokerage to ensure all applicable codes and fees are correct. When FedEx/UPS/DHL/etc tack on broker fees that is the service you are paying for. As such in my book if CBP wants retroactive fees - go after the brokerages that customers paid to do their jobs right.

forgot about the 'no terminal' subclass. edited post.

I did go through FedEx and they are the ones who sent me the notice of the reclassification and additional fees due.

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September 16, 2018, 03:00:05 AM
 #27

you guys have it lucky. We pay 15% tax on all miners here in shitbiscuit land.
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September 16, 2018, 03:03:13 AM
 #28

So what is considered a big order? 4/8/12/16 etc? Or do you have to be designated an importer of mass quantities to be in this boat?

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September 16, 2018, 06:01:01 PM
 #29

It was anything over US$2500 was subject to tariff before, I guess it's the same only the percentage changed.

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September 16, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
 #30

It was anything over US$2500 was subject to tariff before, I guess it's the same only the percentage changed.


So all the way back to 2015 this goes? sh*t at say 100k that is $2,600 bucks. FML.

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September 17, 2018, 12:03:13 AM
Last edit: September 17, 2018, 11:26:18 PM by frodocooper
 #31

What is total tariff for importing China ASIC miners to the US?
25% or 2%?

2.6% plus 25% total of 27.6%
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September 17, 2018, 02:32:27 AM
 #32

Did anyone requested this?
h t t p : / / w w w.autonews.com/article/20180706/OEM01/180709781/u.s.-sets-90-day-deadline-to-request-exemptions-from-china-tariffs

don't think that applies to fees for the ASIC's (others?)


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September 17, 2018, 06:17:42 AM
 #33

This would be exemption from the new tariffs not the ruling someone "requested".

FYI to the ******* who writes a letter asking what the classification is, you're supposed to tell them by arguing a case. smh.

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September 17, 2018, 01:21:53 PM
Last edit: September 17, 2018, 11:27:50 PM by frodocooper
 #34

I did go through FedEx and they are the ones who sent me the notice of the reclassification and additional fees due.

Again, Disclaimer: I am NOT a lawyer!
Personally I would dispute this with the broker and CPB because:
The original shipper and their brokers are who determined which Harmonized Shipping Code to use. We end purchasers have no input on that so how is their screw-up our responsibility?.

Going back to at least 2014, U.S. CBP has accepted import of miners using those codes which of course reinforced shippers and their brokers continued use of those codes.

For large customers, if there were Federal actions underway to re-classify miners, did the brokers at least inform said customers of possible additional fees being levied?

Again, to me I feel the end purchasers should not be liable in any way as this seems to be strictly between the shippers/brokers and CBP. One or all of them screwed up and they are the ones that should pay what's due or ideally the CBP should just eat the previous losses and simply state that starting on such-and-such date all incoming miners fall under the new classifications.

Final customers should be held harmless for this kerfuffle as we had zero input to what happened.

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September 17, 2018, 03:25:50 PM
 #35

We're in the argument that a consumer shouldn't be charged duties (to a point). Not Joe Shmo's fault production isn't in their country in a global economy. Then retaliatory tariffs are what will hurt consumers and just annoy retailers and manufacturing having to up pricing, alter budgets, or trim to meet them. 

2.6% is a non factor but a 25% tariff will be. I'd apply for relief if you haven't.


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September 21, 2018, 12:45:32 AM
 #36

Would this work?
http://edawn.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Foreign-Trade-Zone-Overview.pdf

Looks like Douglas County in Nevada has free zone for import?
Maybe I am wrong?

Well you could store gear there.  Parts etc and not pay while they are stored.

So it looks like it could be helpful.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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September 21, 2018, 01:15:25 AM
Last edit: September 21, 2018, 01:26:36 AM by NotFuzzyWarm
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #37

As I recall, FTZ's cannot be used as import hubs. They are manufacturing zones and materials/parts coming into them get duty reductions/eliminations. Items produced in them and then sold in this country can be produced cheaper because materials costs are cheaper. By Treaty, items produced in FTZ's that are then exported get the same duty reductions/eliminations upon import into other countries that are part of the trade agreements. Not sure about Tariff's tho I'd think they may also be reduced on a case-by-case basis.

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September 21, 2018, 03:08:59 AM
 #38

As I recall, FTZ's cannot be used as import hubs. They are manufacturing zones and materials/parts coming into them get duty reductions/eliminations. Items produced in them and then sold in this country can be produced cheaper because materials costs are cheaper. By Treaty, items produced in FTZ's that are then exported get the same duty reductions/eliminations upon import into other countries that are part of the trade agreements. Not sure about Tariff's tho I'd think they may also be reduced on a case-by-case basis.

What if you build a mining farm inside FTZ and the miners never leave it? Not sure if there are any FTZs next to cheap hydro power though.

Now hosting in Canada seems more appealing than ever.

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September 21, 2018, 08:20:46 PM
Last edit: September 22, 2018, 12:16:28 AM by frodocooper
 #39

What if you build a mining farm inside FTZ and the miners never leave it? Not sure if there are any FTZs next to cheap hydro power though.

Now hosting in Canada seems more appealing than ever.

That would certainly get around the 2.6% import duty but I doubt would bypass the 25% MIC tariff.

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September 21, 2018, 11:28:39 PM
 #40

Seems we've working on a loophole but put those relief applications in. Still will be much higher than 2.6%.

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