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Author Topic: US Tariff Ruling N297495 = 2.6% mandatory tariff on bitcoin mining hardware  (Read 22255 times)
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September 22, 2018, 12:37:51 AM
Last edit: September 22, 2018, 01:32:12 AM by frodocooper
 #41

Quote from: minefarmbuy link=topic=5028276.msg46005459#msg46005459 dkte=1537572519
Seems we've working on a loophole but put those relief applications in. Still will be much higher than 2.6%.

So again this is for big shippers? or are they gonna come after everyone since 2015 who got a $2.5k miner or so?

curious

not much I can do about it but pay, assuming they bother to look, I'd also bet money it is the carriers like fed ex and ups

that actually are doing the calculations...no way enough bureaucrats

so if you had 50k of equipment you'd pay a catchup of 2.6% or about $1.300 USD retroactively to the shippers for not following

the 2015 rules sheesh

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September 22, 2018, 12:39:20 AM
 #42

Relief applications for what: CBP's retroactively charging more import duty and seeking/getting the new duty owed from shipping brokers who of course seek compensation from the final recipient of the miners? As I said earlier,
Quote
Going back to at least 2014, U.S. CBP has accepted import of miners using those codes which of course reinforced shippers and their brokers continued use of those codes.
Is there any record of CBP previously disputing the fees paid under the old classification and collecting the 2.6% instead?

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September 22, 2018, 05:41:08 AM
 #43

For the 25% tariff.

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September 26, 2018, 02:55:14 AM
Last edit: September 26, 2018, 11:55:04 AM by frodocooper
 #44

We have the same retroactive corrections, six figures as well, cant fight in court.  At the end of the day, if you import, its your job to know what hts code to use, and correct the import docs if incorrect.  The ruling is only technically a clarification of a status that already existed.

This is a huge cash grab now for the gov, they will eventually hit every import from bitmain ever.

Yeah, I'm only going to owe a few thousand, but that still sucks bigtime.  Fortunately I've already sworn off of buying anything from Bitmain, which was reconfirmed in my mind when they started all this KYC stuff.

From now on, I'll only order from Blokforge and let you guys deal with CBP.

Am rather curious if they are going to hit me for smaller orders, or just called this one out since it was for over $100K worth of gear (back then...).

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September 26, 2018, 02:44:48 PM
Last edit: September 26, 2018, 09:52:00 PM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #45

Canaan requested KYC information as well. If you did order from them you'd know that.

Would be happy to continue to share insights that come across on what we find or are working on regarding relief and exemption but the transparency here is wearing thin and I have no patience for terribly orchestrated marketing.

Then the whole fear mongering aspect, 25% tariff are substantial but there's nothing that complicated about it if you're already used to prior ruling.

Maybe I should just be direct and say that you, *insert company name* guys can do better than this, plus what a melancholy thread to shill on.

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September 26, 2018, 03:04:22 PM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #46

For the 25% tariff.
Hmm, looking at the MIC Tariff list https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/301/2018-0026%20China%20FRN%207-10-2018_0.pdf I've seen mention of two different tariff amounts: Most items are the 25% BUT later on more were added at only a 10% tariff. Which will miners fall under?

As a side note, it looks like virtually all computers imported into the US will be hit with the tariff. Data processing equipment starts on page 186 of the linked pdf starting at subheading 8470.10.00 Betcha phones fit in there as well.

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September 26, 2018, 03:09:35 PM
 #47

Unfortunately we have confirmed 25%. So 27.6% total duties as mentioned earlier in the thread holds up in relation to the ruling discussed here. We have a meeting later this week to pursue action before deadlines.

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September 26, 2018, 03:43:18 PM
Last edit: September 26, 2018, 09:50:16 PM by frodocooper
 #48

Hmm, looking at the MIC Tariff list https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/301/2018-0026%20China%20FRN%207-10-2018_0.pdf I've seen mention of two different tariff amounts: Most items are the 25% BUT later on more were added at only a 10% tariff. Which will miners fall under?

As a side note, it looks like virtually all computers imported into the US will be hit with the tariff. Data processing equipment starts on page 186 of the linked pdf starting at subheading 8470.10.00 Betcha phones fit in there as well.

I think there is a 10% temporary tariff on some items and it goes up to 25% in January. But miners as mentioned by minefarmbuy are quite certainly at 25% as of now.

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September 26, 2018, 06:02:11 PM
Last edit: September 26, 2018, 09:50:44 PM by frodocooper
 #49

Canaan requested KYC information as well. If you did order from them you'd know that.

Would be happy to continue to share insights that come across on what we find or are working on regarding relief and exemption but the transparency here is wearing thin and I have no patience for terribly orchestrated marketing.

Then the whole fear mongering aspect, 25% tariff are substantial but there's nothing that complicated about it if you're already used to prior ruling.

Maybe I should just be direct and say that you, *insert company name* guys can do better than this, plus what a melancholy thread to shill on.

Good to know.  I'm not big enough to order from them directly... sometimes close, but never quite there.  Thanks for the heads up!

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September 26, 2018, 06:51:20 PM
 #50

25% is confirmed, our customs guy is apparently pretty busy here working on exemption, which will apply for us all for at least a year.

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September 26, 2018, 07:10:03 PM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #51

So again this is for big shippers? or are they gonna come after everyone since 2015 who got a $2.5k miner or so?

In my experience with DHL and FedEx for imports, not even related to miners, they will often pay the fees up front to comply with Customs to not delay delivery and then they'll send you an invoice later. I've received bills from them almost a year after shipment and if you don't pay they say they will stop shipping to you until you do.

I had a few orders from Bitmain in past 6 months. One I shipped through UPS required me to pay duties before they would deliver to me. Others went through DHL with no duties. I am expecting to eventually receive surprise invoices from DHL.
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September 27, 2018, 02:38:24 AM
Last edit: September 27, 2018, 07:48:58 PM by frodocooper
 #52

In my experience with DHL and FedEx for imports, not even related to miners, they will often pay the fees up front to comply with Customs to not delay delivery and then they'll send you an invoice later. I've received bills from them almost a year after shipment and if you don't pay they say they will stop shipping to you until you do.

I had a few orders from Bitmain in past 6 months. One I shipped through UPS required me to pay duties before they would deliver to me. Others went through DHL with no duties. I am expecting to eventually receive surprise invoices from DHL.

Well I am in your boat.  My saving  grace is I was charged more then a few times for my shipments.

So I don’t think I will owe thousands of dollars for 2015 to 2018.

I also think my two demo new gen items which were about 3600 and are under the wire for the 25%

I think I owe 200 to 500 usd.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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September 28, 2018, 01:17:07 AM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #53

The added tariffs were signed on 8/23 any orders before that are only subject to the 2.6% duty.

We're gearing up to put a lot of resource into exemption of the 25% additional duty for hardware and specifically asic chips. If other interested parties wish to donate specifically to these efforts I'll have an address in my signature once the company passes it to me. 

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September 28, 2018, 02:33:41 AM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #54

Hmm, the "specifically ASIC chips" is a questionable area as China has NO advanced Foundries capable of producing 16nm and under chips. TSMC is Taiwanese-owned company and all of their advanced foundries are located in Taiwan. If you want to do business with TSMC don't even suggest to them as a joke that they (Taiwan) are part of China....

True Bitmain, Canaan, and others contracted TSMC to make their chips but technically the chips are not Made In China.

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September 28, 2018, 04:04:38 AM
 #55

Hmm, the "specifically ASIC chips" is a questionable area as China has NO advanced Foundries capable of producing 16nm and under chips. TSMC is Taiwanese-owned company and all of their advanced foundries are located in Taiwan. If you want to do business with TSMC don't even suggest to them as a joke that they (Taiwan) are part of China....

True Bitmain, Canaan, and others contracted TSMC to make their chips but technically the chips are not Made In China.

Yea, sorry I'm not familiar with manufacturing of components. Marketing yes, customs no. Conference call tomorrow with a local and national pro in the import export world. If we don't have to worry about chips that will be less to work though with them but maybe more on our back end to recover funds for chip buyers pending discussions tomorrow. I would assume that country of origin matters quite a bit, but i'll pass along after this post ensure this is asked. Notably it will help players in our world country like sidehack and other resellers. Of course mfb as well and importantly all buyers who can facilitate their own orders.   

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September 28, 2018, 04:52:59 AM
Merited by frodocooper (2)
 #56

Hmm, the "specifically ASIC chips" is a questionable area as China has NO advanced Foundries capable of producing 16nm and under chips. TSMC is Taiwanese-owned company and all of their advanced foundries are located in Taiwan. If you want to do business with TSMC don't even suggest to them as a joke that they (Taiwan) are part of China....

True Bitmain, Canaan, and others contracted TSMC to make their chips but technically the chips are not Made In China.

Substantial completion of the board is china, that is what matters.  We have the same attorneys as another chip manufacturer that ships to china for processing and testing.  Will be sorted out soon enough.
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September 28, 2018, 05:06:54 AM
 #57

Is BF applying for exemption as well? Should cover market wide for assembled hardware. Wonder how it's viewed with multiple requests for exemption. Your using lawyers for customs work? Not brokers?

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September 28, 2018, 03:02:39 PM
 #58

Are there any known asic chips manufactured/produced in China?

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September 28, 2018, 07:01:14 PM
Last edit: October 16, 2018, 01:19:40 PM by NotFuzzyWarm
Merited by frodocooper (2)
 #59

Are there any known asic chips manufactured/produced in China?
Because ASIC's as a general family do far more than just mining - I would assume yes. We are talking things like Digital Signal Processors, network switch fabric chips, usb to serial converters, digital watch/clock and calculator chips, mp3 players, etc. Any circuit or collection of circuits that serves only 1 function can be put into an ASIC. However they would be a pretty big node size and the Chinese Foundries are incapable of making anything competitive even with 28nm mining ASIC's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

That list mentions GloFo planning a plant in China but no mention of what node size it would produce. IMHO it would again be for high node size chips that need to be rock-bottom price for consumer electronics. No way in hell would Global Foundries build a bleeding-edge foundry there. No matter what, safe bet that at least for now the new Tariffs put brakes on that plan.

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September 28, 2018, 08:48:24 PM
Merited by frodocooper (3)
 #60

Is BF applying for exemption as well? Should cover market wide for assembled hardware. Wonder how it's viewed with multiple requests for exemption. Your using lawyers for customs work? Not brokers?

Yes attorneys that are specialized in CBP matters.  The more the better.
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