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Author Topic: US Tariff Ruling N297495 = 2.6% mandatory tariff on bitcoin mining hardware  (Read 24892 times)
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August 11, 2019, 07:21:03 PM
 #161

Unless it's under de minimis.

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August 11, 2019, 07:57:14 PM
Last edit: August 11, 2019, 11:10:07 PM by frodocooper
 #162

Unless it's under de minimis.

I gather by the above you mean there is a minimum that tariffs do not apply?

Or has that boat sailed as well? (Of, course, does not apply to us, and the USA, but figured I'd ask, anything we get is well over that limit if it exists, anyway)

I don't suppose with the new tariffs, we can get an exempt like some technology companies are trying to do?

Not exactly sure why I'm even bothering trying to follow this 'snipe hunt' anyway. Even without the soon to be Septemeber 1st, 2019 increase in tariffs by 10% to a total of 37.6% with import fees, that any of this mining ASIC equipment of any flavor of any algorithm, be it BTC/LTC or whatever, would make sense on this FOMO pump anyway. Guess it is just a habit.

Anyway, if there is STILL a minimum where USA tariffs don't apply, let me/us here know. Unlikely to matter, but would be good just to know.

(I need a better hobby, then following dubious ASIC miner purchases and how they interact with dubious USA tariffs)

sheesh

Brad

 
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August 11, 2019, 10:52:28 PM
Last edit: August 12, 2019, 02:08:13 AM by philipma1957
 #163

two s9k. Are 620 plus 178 shipping or 798 therefore tax exempt .

You will need to find a psu state side or like me have 10 or 20 sitting on a rack doing nothing.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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August 12, 2019, 01:39:31 AM
Last edit: August 13, 2019, 02:01:56 AM by frodocooper
 #164

So $800.00 USD, or below is Tax-Exempt from the full tariff or just the import fees?

Re-Read above and going to assume you only pay the 2.7% import fees on such.

hmmmm..interesting

not a damn lot to choose from but interesting

brad

 
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August 12, 2019, 02:11:02 AM
Last edit: August 13, 2019, 02:02:17 AM by frodocooper
 #165

you may have to pay the 2.7%   but I can cope with that  and the 6.75% NJ state sales tax.

but 25%  + 2.7% + 6.75% = 34.45%

soon to be

35% + 2.7% + 6.75% = 44.45%

if I choose anything but the s9k.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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August 12, 2019, 03:03:33 AM
Last edit: August 13, 2019, 02:02:36 AM by frodocooper
 #166

Interesting. I suppose I have to pay 7% Minnesota Sales Tax. I suppose I learned something.

thanks

Brad

 
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September 20, 2019, 02:32:32 PM
Last edit: September 21, 2019, 10:12:53 AM by frodocooper
 #167

I found this article on Oct 16th, 2019 and the tariffs.

https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/2168679/they-were-minting-money-making-cryptocurrency-mining-gear

The 'interesting' line is how the USA classifies the ASIC MINERS as “electrical machinery apparatus” vs previously “data processing machine”.

(Unsure on another note how this affects USA Taxes in that when listed as a computer previously, I could take the 5-year deductible off 'computers' all in 1 year for the full 25% rather than the usual spread out off equipment depreciation, I THINK, it was over each year till 5 years...anyway this is an aside if anyone has clarity on such.) (doubtful) Sad

The office of the United States Trade Representative in June categorized Bitmain’s mining hardware, called Antminer S9, as “electrical machinery apparatus” which is subject to a 2.6 percent tariff. Previously the goods were classified as.

The reclassification brought the mining hardware under the list of Chinese goods subject to the additional 25 percent tariffs, which took effect in August. The outcome is that Chinese cryptocurrency mining gear makers now face tariffs on their US shipments of 27.6 percent, up from zero previously.

So the key here is on these USA tariff exemptions you want to look for "electrical machinery apparatus" now...but that is so frigging broad now we are likely locked in until this whole China Tariff war is over, which may still take 1-2 years, IMHO.

Anyway, found this classification change, figured I'd point it out on the tariff. I was unaware no longer can be classified as a computer for USA tax equipment deductions.

For all, I know this NEW classification is better, if not for tariff, then for tax purposes. But the went to the trouble of actually CHANGING this, so again, IMHO it means something.

So it either means 1) same old same old or  2) something good or 3) something worse as regards to mining ASIC equipment purchases.

Hopefully, others on here have a better knowledge of such stuff above then myself and can post here on such.

later

Brad

 
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philipma1957
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September 20, 2019, 07:22:52 PM
 #168

Does this apply to UK?

No this is trump/tax/tariff war with China.

You guys have vat  to deal with.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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September 20, 2019, 08:20:26 PM
Last edit: September 22, 2019, 12:29:58 PM by mgoz
Merited by frodocooper (4), vapourminer (1), BeetcoinScummer (1)
 #169

Hey friend, I may be buying some of antminer ASICS soon.

I was wondering if DHL ever hit you up for the duty fees?

I really appreciate any info you might have!    Cool

I never claimed to not pay duty fees. They only charged the 2.6% and no additional fees. They were under the amount to meet informal entries, while also being above de minimis. If you have to go through formal entry, then you will definitely pay the higher fee unless you falsify the paperwork. If you go through customs as an informal entry, then it's up to the customs officer filling out the paperwork for how the fee is determined and their responsibility. Informal entries are liquidated at time of release from customs meaning that they can't come back or charge any additional fees. As soon as you pay the fee, it's liquidated and that's final. Customs determines the fee for informal entries and fills out all the paperwork. If they classify an informal entry wrong, then you luck out and pay a lower fee.

Formal entries are different. You, shipper, agent/broker, etc. fill out the paperwork for formal entries and attest to accuracy of classification and fees. Customs has over a year to review formal entries before liquidating. If they find errors with your classification prior to liquidation, they will come back and charge you the additional fees.

The only people I've seen getting hit with additional fees later are from formal entries that haven't been liquidated that were classified incorrectly by themselves, shipper, broker, etc., not already liquidated informal entries classified by customs. In all of my shipments since the Section 301 tariffs went into effect, it would appear that CBP's policy (at least in New York) is to not apply the tariffs on any informal entries, not just de minimis informal entries. FedEx's regulatory update on it interprets the CBP FAQ differently and says only de minimis informal entries are excluded. I would avoid using FedEx since their own brokers are the ones that got them in trouble for misclassification.

I've had multiple orders, all single miners that were informal entries above de minimis, and have yet to pay anything above 2.6%. They were all shipped by DHL. I recently ordered a T17 with coupon that meets de minimis and waiting to see how they interpret that.
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September 22, 2019, 07:10:36 PM
Last edit: September 23, 2019, 09:21:54 AM by frodocooper
 #170

No this is trump/tax/tariff war with China.

You guys have vat  to deal with.

philipma, I had to think of you when I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw7PUrgU3N0

Its sad, very sad Wink

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November 02, 2019, 12:35:13 PM
Last edit: November 03, 2019, 11:15:08 AM by frodocooper
 #171

In all of my shipments since the Section 301 tariffs went into effect, it would appear that CBP's policy (at least in New York) is to not apply the tariffs on any informal entries, not just de minimis informal entries.

This still seems to be the case. I just received my order for a single S17 Pro via DHL processed through NY and was charged only 2.6% (approx. $67). Shipped from Malaysia. No 25% tariff. I paid DHL the 2.6% while the shipment was in transit.

I have another pre-order for a single S17e through UPS. Let's see how that works out.
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November 02, 2019, 05:01:10 PM
Last edit: November 03, 2019, 11:15:42 AM by frodocooper
 #172

No I got stuck  618 + 624 for 2 units a  s17  a s17pro

buysolar paid 67

my clifton hoster paid 147 for 2 s17pro.

All orders were delivered between oct 21 and nov 1

why  did I pay full mine shipped out of China not Malaysia

So I know have  2 t17e due to ship any day nov1-nov10

if they ship out of china I will owe 3330 x 27.6%   =    919.00
if they ship out of Malaysia I will owe 3330 x 2.6% =      86.50

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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November 04, 2019, 01:42:01 PM
Last edit: November 05, 2019, 12:40:16 AM by frodocooper
 #173

This still seems to be the case. I just received my order for a single S17 Pro via DHL processed through NY and was charged only 2.6% (approx. $67). Shipped from Malaysia. No 25% tariff. I paid DHL the 2.6% while the shipment was in transit.

I have another pre-order for a single S17e through UPS. Let's see how that works out.

As I bolded,the miner was not just shipped from Malaysia, it was assembled there as well- not China, ergo no Tariff.
For the umpteenth time here, only goods Made in China get hit with the Tariff.

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November 04, 2019, 02:12:31 PM
Last edit: November 05, 2019, 12:41:17 AM by frodocooper
 #174

Bitmain would do well to continue building units in a malaysia factory.

The chips are made in Taiwan  which is in a gray world of  not being mainland China  in the eyes of the USA.

Since the chips are well over 60% of the cost of a miner. Assembly in china  vs Malaysia is a huge price difference for us in the USA.

We have ordered 6 s17pros and 1 s17 they have been shipped from Oct 25 th Oct 31

5 from malaysia total tax under 400

2 from China total tax over 1200

If all were from China taxes would have been more then 4000   so paying 1600 vs 4000 is nice for our farm.

However

 I have  2x t17e  at 3330
 I have  1x t17    at   952
 I have  1x t17+  at 1650

total 5932 - 375 coupon = 5557 subject to taxes of some kind

 1637 full tax no coupon discount and made in China
   154 2.6% tax no coupon discount and made in Malaysia

I know they do not discount tax based on coupons as I have always had taxes based on pre coupon prices.

But  154 vs 1637  is  a new machine for me.

I could easily order the t17+  right now if I was sure all the gear was assembled + shipped from Malaysia.

In fact  if I was not burned  already  around 1050  on the two units shipped from China .

I would have ordered a 1252 unit already got a 150 coupon and then ordered the 1650 unit. for 1650-150 = 1500

so the lack of clarity on bitmain's part costs them sales ,in my case 2 pieces at  a cost of 2752, to  USA buyers.

It is really hard to buy gear not know if you pay 27.6% tax or 2.6% tax.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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November 04, 2019, 02:59:18 PM
Last edit: November 05, 2019, 12:41:51 AM by frodocooper
 #175

As I bolded,the miner was not just shipped from Malaysia, it was assembled there as well- not China, ergo no Tariff.
For the umpteenth time here, only goods Made in China get hit with the Tariff.

No doubt. According to the waybill it was shipped for Bitmain c/o Flextronix. Probably costs a few bucks more for Bitmain to have Flextronics make them in Malaysia, but that amount means nothing for a $2K miner.
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November 04, 2019, 10:52:58 PM
 #176

All of mine with the 2.6% were shipped from China with "Made in China" stamps and SZX (Shenzhen) origin codes on boxes and labels. Still have the boxes. August 2018, April 2019, and May 2019. All single miners and informal entries above de minimis.
philipma1957
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November 05, 2019, 11:59:32 PM
 #177

All of mine with the 2.6% were shipped from China with "Made in China" stamps and SZX (Shenzhen) origin codes on boxes and labels. Still have the boxes. August 2018, April 2019, and May 2019. All single miners and informal entries above de minimis.

This post could cost you money.   As you are claiming you know the gear was due to pay the tariffs.



I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
mgoz
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November 06, 2019, 05:13:19 PM
Last edit: November 06, 2019, 05:28:47 PM by mgoz
Merited by frodocooper (5), NotFuzzyWarm (2)
 #178

This post could cost you money.   As you are claiming you know the gear was due to pay the tariffs.

They were informal entries and liquidated at time of release when I paid the 2.6% tariff determined by customs agent. This was not me, Bitmain, shipper, broker, or anyone else determining the import duty or classification. It was determined entirely by customs and liquidated by them. Informal entries are classified by customs and liquidated at time of release. Formal entries are classified by importer of record and can be reviewed for over a year prior to CBP liquidating. Liquidation is final. I believe this is where people are confused with CBP or shipper demanding additional fees. Additional fees can only be assessed on entries that have not been liquidated.

When you paid the higher fees for an S17 and S17 Pro, was it an informal or formal entry? If they were both part of the same order then it would be above informal entry limit. I am only speculating that CBP is not applying the 301 rulings on informal entries since all of my informal entries have only been the 2.6%. Everyone I've seen saying they had fees reassessed were for formal entries not liquidated yet.

If they want to come after me and have me pay for already liquidated entries due to their own rulings, I'd have no problem with it, but I don't foresee it happening. I even tried to get paperwork on what they classified the entries as and all I could get was the waybills from DHL with no classification.
PopoJeff
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November 07, 2019, 10:59:36 AM
Merited by frodocooper (3)
 #179

Tariff news

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxbusiness.com/politics/china-us-agree-to-lift-existing-tariffs-in-phases.amp

Home garage miner: 1-s9i, 1-s17 pro 50, 1-s17 56
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November 07, 2019, 06:39:30 PM
Last edit: November 07, 2019, 10:08:07 PM by frodocooper
 #180

Likely, now that we are under 'electronics' so to speak here, this will be the LAST tariff lifted, in that it is the elephant in the room as far as imported China goods, IMHO.

From what I gather, this first phase is mostly agriculture and misc.

 
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