US Tariff Ruling N297495 = 2.6% mandatory tariff on bitcoin mining hardware

[CannonGentry]

I pre ordered 4x Whatsminer m20s from Pangolinminer... they are coming from China. Delivered via DHL between dec 15-30

Has anyone from USA ordered from them recently? Also what kind of taxes will I be seeing once they are shipped and how will I be notified to pay them?

I emailed Pangolinminer and they said that they haven’t had issues with the trump tax but could not guarantee that I’ll avoid it... 

[1714189180]

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[1714189180]

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[minefarmbuy]

Pango doesn't have to pay the tariffs so yes, they don't have to worry about it. You're likely liable for 37.6% duties+tariff on unit cost.

[philipma1957]

27.6%  if I am not mistaken.

I have paid trump tax  on bitmain's gear.  1228  for 2x s17's

I have paid trump tax on innosilicon's gear   350 a few times.

I avoided trump tax on the m10 units from pangolin  each one of the eight I ordered was under 800  I ordered them 1 at a time.

grand total of 8 x 790 = 6320  but all a week apart. so no issues.

My guess is  you will get caught and owe %27.6 x 8000  = 2208

if they wrote them up at 2000 a unit.

You should have asked them to list the price at 500 each

so 4x500 = 2000

I am curious  as to how much you will be stuck .

I think I paid more the 2200 this year on gear ordered.

[minefarmbuy]

37.6% duties + tariff.

https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=8543709960%20

[philipma1957]

37.6% duties + tariff.

https://hts.usitc.gov/?query=8543709960%20

wow missed the jump from 27.6 to 37.6. freaking nuts 🥜!!

at cannongentry please tell us what happens.

[Searing]

I'm confused? Is this what they are charging in China now, because of the anticipated 10% tariff hike on December 15th? Or is this something else an 'upping' of the 2.7% import fee to 10% on ASIC miners (ie electronic components)?

Thanks...just lurking..not buying...but seems quite the clusterf*ck for those who are 'brave' enough to get ASIC equipment.

later

Brad

[philipma1957]

I'm confused? Is this what they are charging in China now, because of the anticipated 10% tariff hike on December 15th? Or is this something else an 'upping' of the 2.7% import fee to 10% on ASIC miners (ie electronic components)?

Thanks...just lurking..not buying...but seems quite the clusterf*ck for those who are 'brave' enough to get ASIC equipment.

later

Brad

I WOULD HATE TO  PAY 37.6%  TAX ON 4 m20s units..   it would be more then 3000

[Searing]

but what is with the post that states 37.6% is that just 'anticipating' the 10% tariff by the time your supposed China unit hit USA shores? (unsure how that works)

I understand the chart and all..just when/if/how it applies? now? dec 15th? whichever?

[minefarmbuy]

I don't recall the date but it's been a while now. "Late summer" just off hand.

[mgoz]

The chart linked shows it as a 2.6%. The 35% and what's in column 2 only applies to products from Korea and Cuba. Section 301 is still 25%, so it's still 27.6% total. You just add what's in column 1 with what Section 301 ruling is. 8543.70.99 was listed in the June 2018 $16 Billion Trade Action (List 2) proposed listing here and has not changed: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2018-13248.pdf

This is the August 2018 notice of action listing and when it went into effect:
https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/2018-17709.pdf

[Searing]

Thanks, I was more than a bit, befuddled.

As far as I can tell from the news the 10% increase in China tariffs is still gonna go into effect on December 15th, unless some miracle happens, here in the USA.

Man, the 25% tariff is just one of like 20 or so clusterf*cks going on in the USA as we speak, sheesh...I wonder if the talk is true on more tariffs on the EU as well?

[STT]

Is it true to say the consumer is paying the tariffs not the makers or originating nation.   China has supposedly devalued their currency to account for some of the difference but I'm not sure thats helped.   If the hardware can be used anywhere in the world then the only people its hurting is the country operating the tariffs so its basically another form of taxation on those particular goods.

[Searing]

Is it true to say the consumer is paying the tariffs not the makers or originating nation.   China has supposedly devalued their currency to account for some of the difference but I'm not sure thats helped.   If the hardware can be used anywhere in the world then the only people its hurting is the country operating the tariffs so its basically another form of taxation on those particular goods.

Well, this recent article says that is exactly what China is doing to offset tariffs.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3013678/china-letting-value-yuan-slide-offset-trade-war-tariffs-us

China also 'doubles' infrastructure projects to offset tariffs

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3033564/china-doubles-value-infrastructure-project-approvals-stave

The catch is China has many more options to play with as a quick-acting centralized system to counteract any tariff effects by the USA. The above also does not account for the other thing China has....trade surplus per year on top of the above.

Anyway, how it looks are ASIC tariffs are gonna be here for quite a while yet. Then even if the tariffs go away, the USA still has to account for the other advantages China has above.

sh*t

Brad

[mgoz]

Is it true to say the consumer is paying the tariffs not the makers or originating nation. 

Yes. This is exactly how tariffs work. The importer pays them, not the country of origin. If you are a consumer importing directly, you're paying 100% of the tariffs to U.S. customs. If you're buying from a re-seller that imported the goods, then they are marking up the goods to offset the tariffs that they paid to U.S. customs. Tariffs primarily hurt the consumer. They only hurt the manufacturers if the tariffs are high enough to make people no longer want to import. While Trump claims China is paying the tariffs, that's simply not true. China pays absolutely nothing on his tariffs. It's 100% on the importer. The billions he claims that are paid by China are actually paid by U.S. importers. He's just clueless.

[Searing]

Again, if you want to delve into economic detail google on why China has the advantage of this tariff, besides it benefiting China.

1) China has very little to worry about from the tariff side from their buying..it is the other way around.

2) China has a growing trade surplus with the USA so that also mitigates the tariff from China's point of view.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/14/china-2018-full-year-december-trade-exports-imports-trade-balance.html

3) China can do more infrastructure projects on a quick say so, as a centralized economy and that also mitigates the tariff's effects as well.

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/2183977/china-ramps-infrastructure-spend-stave-economic-slowdown-and

4) China manipulates Yuan currency to also mitigate tariff's influence

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/business/economy/us-china-yuan-renminbi-trump.html

5) Of course, China also uses Capitalism as a means to keep power. If they needed to, they would toss markets under the bus further to keep Communist party in power.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2119839/how-communist-china-has-embraced-capitalism-remains-leninist

We, the USA have as our only 'real' lever the imprefect shooting ourselves in the foot consumers eating the tariff costs as our redress. No way in hell, unfortunately, can China not win this battle. The Communist party of china does not care about profits, but eventually, the USA will crack and get rid of tariffs giving even more power to China in the economic front. I hope I'm wrong, but this whole mess tariff and otherwise is gonna end badly. We should have kept with the allies and the large asian pacific trade deals. As it is, we shot our load with tariffs and now have to eat the consequences.

My own view is the tariffs will continue into the Spring of 2021 if there is a new Presidential administration. We are likely stuck till then, again, IMHO.

[Philipma1957cellphone]

or  usa companies leave china and use India for cheap labor.  Thus china is a big loser.  As to this happening ask guys like Tim Cook. Frankly I don't  hate the tax I rather us set up factories inside India. This would give usa two spots to build goods to send here. Not just china. Not a big fan of usa companies that only use china to build gear. Fuck them.

[minefarmbuy]

Korea or Singapore would be best regarding duties specifically.

[Philipma1957cellphone]

Always wanted to visit Singapore would love to see usa get more building and exporting from them.

[Biffa]

 or  usa companies leave china and use India for cheap labor.  Thus china is a big loser.  As to this happening ask guys like Tim Cook. Frankly I don't  hate the tax I rather us set up factories inside India. This would give usa two spots to build goods to send here. Not just china. Not a big fan of usa companies that only use china to build gear. Fuck them.

I thought the entire point of this was to get US companies to manufacture in the US using US labour. Of course that won't actually help much because it will just mean more products will still be more expensive because people in the US won't work for the sort of money that people in China/India/Mexico etc will work for, so the US companies will just have to charge more because their labour costs are higher, and the consumer will have to pay more.

[philipma1957]

Part of the issue is theft of IP  which China is pretty famous for or at least has been accused of doing.

Whether  you build in China India or Mexico vs USA the smaller customer gets stuck one way or the other.

But if you only build in 1 country you don't have any flexibility to negotiate with the factory/government location.

If Apple had factories in China ,India, Mexico and USA  vs Factories in China  it gives them more flexibility to tell any location fuck you I will lower production here and ramp it up in other country.

It also helps lower theft of IP  since if it happens while using the China location apple can say fuck you I will reduce production next year to punish you for theft of IP.