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Author Topic: Merit is not a limit for success?  (Read 554 times)
Highpitched10
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November 01, 2018, 05:50:06 AM
 #21

His question was posted more then a month ago, and he is inactive for over a month now, just somebody bumped the thread today and here we go again,the same discussions.
Not that it's bad to have discussions,no.. it's just that we repeat ourselves every single time this happens.
It really doesn't matter how far back a thread was made/posted/started,as long as a user still has a thing or two to add to the discussion,then it's definitely OK still commenting on such threads..

We've got topics that've been on for close to a year now, and such topics still ocuppy the front page of their various sections as users still contribute a thing or two to the discussions daily

Well your assessment may be correct only based on the fact that this thread is a meaningless/redundant one
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hilariousetc
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November 01, 2018, 07:53:04 AM
 #22

i care about that and me also like to earn signature bounty , but i hope that all are posting only for merits that's not fair ...!!
merit is important i know but, posts are maden only for the merits is not helpfull ....!!
some peoples only posting here for merits ....!! but i hope they all help others also by their knowledge ..!!

Posts made just for signature campaigns usually aren't helpful either, and that's the only reason people want merits, but let's be honest here; you're probably only posting for the potential of earning from signatures or bounties so what's the difference? If we announced that both signature campaigns and bounties were banned from this board outright today would you still be here tomorrow? I doubt it. The merit system was introduced because people were only signing up here to earn and even when they had little interest or knowledge about bitcoin/crypto and had little actual interest in learning about it but just earning, and that's the problem. Now people have the obstacle of merits to earn and it curbs that behaviour, but it shouldn't really even be on anyone's radar because if you came here to contribute because you would earn it naturally over time without even trying or noticing it. It's the fact that people put so much concern and emphasises on merit that's shows their true motives here.

His question was posted more then a month ago, and he is inactive for over a month now, just somebody bumped the thread today and here we go again,the same discussions.
Not that it's bad to have discussions,no.. it's just that we repeat ourselves every single time this happens.
It really doesn't matter how far back a thread was made/posted/started,as long as a user still has a thing or two to add to the discussion,then it's definitely OK still commenting on such threads..

We've got topics that've been on for close to a year now, and such topics still ocuppy the front page of their various sections as users still contribute a thing or two to the discussions daily

Well your assessment may be correct only based on the fact that this thread is a meaningless/redundant one

Well I agree to a certain extent, but more often that not it's just the same old thing being discussed or complained about just reworded slightly. Just because a page is still active doesn't mean it's still of use either. Spammers will keep any thread active, especially the worst sorts of ones as they're often the easiest to spam in. 

iasenko
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November 01, 2018, 07:57:41 AM
 #23

~
We've got topics that've been on for close to a year now, and such topics still ocuppy the front page of their various sections as users still contribute a thing or two to the discussions daily

Well your assessment may be correct only based on the fact that this thread is a meaningless/redundant one

Just wonder how can you discuss a topic on daily basis for over an year and still add some meaningful information to it without repeating it, if it's not a price/news related or following some current events,  I see no point of topics with more than 10 pages, no one read the previous comments they just replaying to the OP or the last post. This often leads only to repeat something that was already said.
Look in the Bitcoin Discussion, pick one of the threads with more then 10 pages are read the comments, I'm pretty sure you'll end up even with copy/pasting cases. People just pumping their post count for the sig. campaigns, even if they have noting to say.

Do you think if we remove the sig. campaigns in general that those discussions will still go on?? No.

hilariousetc
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November 01, 2018, 08:26:20 AM
 #24

Do you think if we remove the sig. campaigns in general that those discussions will still go on?? No.


Well that's obviously the source of the issue here and removing signatures is pretty much the only way to stop this nonsense immediately. I often wonder if signature campaigns will ever be removed here. Theymos has mentioned it would be a last resort and one he'd be willing to do if it came to it, but it would kill of most of the activity/traffic here (not that I'm saying that's a bad thing). I'd love to see the data and charts in the drop of actual traffic and how many people would instantly leave if it does ever actually happen. It'd probably just go back to the sort of numbers we had pre-2013. Maybe much less. I suspect signature campaigns are the only thing even keeping a lot of the 'old timers' here (though there are still a lot who admirably never joined campaigns for whatever reason). I think there are a couple of other things we could do before it ever got to completely removing signatures though such as punishing badly run campaigns and maybe even removing signatures from all the lower ranks first rather than a blanket ban on everyone, but as long as you can get paid to post we're always going to have an issue with spam in one way or another, but I think we need to try find more ways of limiting it before the inevitable happens.  

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November 01, 2018, 08:38:51 AM
 #25

Today many are disappointed with the new ranking rules, including myself. However, after I think about it, merit and ranking are not everything. Knowledge is more important than merit. With knowledge I will get more than merit. What about your opinion?
I don't want to say bad things to those users who are posting these kind of threads here in Meta and other sections but can I ask? Why are you posting these kind of posts?

If you really don't care about merit then there is no need to post threads like these here. Just learn if you want to learn. Gain information if you want to and don't post threads like this. I know that there is a double meaning with this. Saying things like these but behind it, you are expecting that some high ranked members will give you merits.

cabalism13
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November 01, 2018, 08:43:49 AM
 #26

Why are you posting these kind of posts?
1. To get Attention
2. To tell us that they're just a Bias.
3. To gain Merit





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iasenko
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November 01, 2018, 08:57:33 AM
 #27

Do you think if we remove the sig. campaigns in general that those discussions will still go on?? No.


Well that's obviously the source of the issue here and removing signatures is pretty much the only way to stop this nonsense immediately. I often wonder if signature campaigns will ever be removed here. Theymos has mentioned it would be a last resort and one he'd be willing to do if it came to it, but it would kill of most of the activity/traffic here (not that I'm saying that's a bad thing). I'd love to see the data and charts in the drop of actual traffic and how many people would instantly leave if it does ever actually happen. It'd probably just go back to the sort of numbers we had pre-2013. Maybe much less. I suspect signature campaigns are the only thing even keeping a lot of the 'old timers' here (though there are still a lot who admirably never joined campaigns for whatever reason). I think there are a couple of other things we could do before it ever got to completely removing signatures though such as punishing badly run campaigns and maybe even removing signatures from all the lower ranks first rather than a blanket ban on everyone, but as long as you can get paid to post we're always going to have an issue with spam in one way or another, but I think we need to try find more ways of limiting it before the inevitable happens.  

I try to see the situation from a different perspective now, kind of What would Jesus theymos do?.
Even if sig. campaigns are bad thing, they are a way to spread the word about cryptocurrencies  in the developing countries. And we all know that there is no bad PR. As the "one friend introduced me to crypto" sounds really banal here, the reality is that more and more people are engaging with the cryptocurrencies and probably a small fraction of those shitposers actually can contribute to development of the crypto in those countries. I guess this is the reason not to remove the sig. campaigns.

For me personally, I don't really care if I will wear paid signature or not as my posting behaviors did't change much before and after the I joined the ChipMixer campaign. Almost all the crypto I have now, I bought, and I don't use the forum as income or to support my family. It's just a hobby which I really like Smiley

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November 01, 2018, 09:12:58 AM
 #28

<…> I don't use the forum as income or to support my family. It's just a hobby which I really like <…> 
That is the key difference I’d say that leads to different behaviour on the posting front on this forum. Paradoxically, it seems that many that do see the forum as a source of support tend to do it over multiple accounts with (now) lower ranks, whilst those that do enjoy the forum but that are not viewing it as a source of significant income, if at all, go around a different way, with better content on the whole.

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November 01, 2018, 09:17:42 AM
 #29

For me personally, I don't really care if I will wear paid signature or not as my posting behaviors did't change much before and after the I joined the ChipMixer campaign. Almost all the crypto I have now, I bought, and I don't use the forum as income or to support my family. It's just a hobby which I really like Smiley
I can easily admit I started posting more after joining a signature campaign. It is indeed more or less a hobby, and although I don't need the money, it doesn't hurt to have some spare digital cash either.
I joined my first campaign as a Full Member, almost a year after joining this forum, when I had 145 posts:
I don't think I'll reach 50 posts per month, but I don't really mind, I like rollin Cheesy
It was a strict campaign, and I've been cautious about my post quality ever since. And that brings me to hilariousetc's quote:
I think there are a couple of other things we could do before it ever got to completely removing signatures though such as punishing badly run campaigns
This would really be the key to ending signature spam. Instead of banning all signature campaigns, I'd like to see the results of setting a minimum payment (in Bitcoin) for all campaigns. If it costs real money instead of tokens created out of thin air, the advertising party has something to lose, and has a reason to be stricter.

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November 01, 2018, 10:41:12 AM
 #30

Today many are disappointed with the new ranking rules,
Knowledge is more important than merit.
The goal is a process; not a definition. Not an endorsement. Not a form to comfort yourself. This is something that awaits you.

The point: what are your goals in the Forum:
▶ ️ What are your goals in the forum?
▶ ️ Convey information or get upset about Merit regulations?
▶ ️ Convincing someone to be compassionate?
▶ ️ Entertaining?
▶ ️ Motivating and inspiring Mod / forum members to take action?
▶ ️ Making an idea or idea?
▶ ️ Touching the emotions of forum members?
▶ ️ Or introduce yourself?



With knowledge.
Knowledge: is like that. Work behind the scenes. No need for recognition. No need for glorification. There is no need for you to bow down to him like a slave. However,
knowledge: call you to respond and open your mind and your heart to it so you can unite well on the Bitcointalk forum with your own aspects, and thoughts.

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November 01, 2018, 11:12:05 AM
 #31

I think there are a couple of other things we could do before it ever got to completely removing signatures though such as punishing badly run campaigns
This would really be the key to ending signature spam. Instead of banning all signature campaigns, I'd like to see the results of setting a minimum payment (in Bitcoin) for all campaigns. If it costs real money instead of tokens created out of thin air, the advertising party has something to lose, and has a reason to be stricter.

I would rather have ICO campaigns (or non-bitcoin paying campaigns) banned than a full blanket ban on signatures since they're the ones pretty much causing the issue in the first place, but the issue is you can't really stop people from promoting them. You could say they're not allowed and ban them here but people will organise and run them off site. What do we do with all the users who continue to advertise for them? Warn then ban them? That's why we really would need some sort of signature bans or blacklists or the ultimate solution to remove signatures all together which is the only way you'll ultimately solve the matter once and for all. I think we'd also have to remove avatars and personal texts though too as people will still use them to advertise. That's why the better solution would be just to work with what we've got now and enforce more stricter rules on how people can operate campaigns here. We've let them get away with far too much with zero repercussions and the current state of the forum is the proof of what happens when we do nothing. If we had some guidelines or rules that were enforced campaigns would soon start to change how they operate because this forum is far too valuable to them, but they won't until there's punishments for running them badly.

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November 01, 2018, 02:09:17 PM
 #32

It really is time we had a list of noteworthy new members. I'm sorry that I haven't had time to work on my Snow Eagle site, but I have had quite a few issues to resolve recently, and that includes a failing clutch on my van, hopefully that will be replaced tomorrow. I'll try to start listing qulity members over the weekend or early next week.

In the meantime, if anybody else wants to start a similar project, then we could pool the lists.

After months of searching, it is very easy to find noteworthy old members posts, several times a day, but not new ones, even though so many new members have arrived in the last months. I tend to be very flexible when it comes to post quality, but even then, I have come to realize that noteworthy new members are a bit like the Edelweiss flower: very difficult to find and probably only the result of someone's imagination.

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