Doubts about bitcoin these days...

[Ibian]

The topic is "doubts about bitcoin".

Also this is not about "hackers" - it is about an encryption algorithm becoming obsolete. Bitcoin is a technology set a fixed point in time at the time of its creation - meanwhile the rest of technology continues to grow exponentially around it. Bitcoin may not be able to respond to the exponential growing technology in time to preserve itself, while banks will.

Since bitcoin is about to become obsolete, possible right before I click the post button, you should get out before you get hacked.

[1715089946]

1715089946

[mmortal03]

...I can't scour the forums all day, but when I do have the time to read, so many times I hear about coin being stolen from accounts, exchanges not paying people, etc, ....

You describe a need for security which the market is going to meet.
Consider blockchain.info, only the user has access to the private keys, they literally cannot run with the money...brilliant.
Why don't they open an exchange?

http://glcbitcoin.com/2014/03/04/zeroblock-acquires-real-time-bitcoin-trading-platform-rtbtc

[teukon]

When ALL the news coming from the bitcoin industry is negative, where ever you read I just don't see how it could ever bounce back from where it once was.

Bitcoin bounced back in late 2011.  Sentiment was much more negative then that it is now.

[Torque]

I love how people keep spreading FUD about how Bitcoin is based on an outdated protocol... when it is open source, and the core developers keep adding to it and improving it every single day.

Kinda like saying Linux is based on an outdated version of UNIX.   

[galbros]

I'm starting to lose faith too, so I do hope this is a capitulation type situation.  The simple fact that for many potential users it is harder not easier to get into bitcoin than before.  The professionalization of mining and difficulties of converting fiat shuts out many potential new users.  I agree that the nature of bitcoin, for good or ill, brings out the incessant hacking we're seeing.  At least the non technical frauds, e.g. Pirateat40, seem to be on the decline.

[lemfuture]

just wait and hope theres a better security for bitcoin being develop as of now. till then invest safe, small, and only what you can afford to lose.
i believe theres an upside in the rampant hacking of bitcoins, and thats an improving growing bitcoin(hopeful)  

[fcmatt]

I agree with others that bitcoins biggest problem is user security of their coins and how hackers/scammers have stolen a significant amount of bitcoins in circulation. Now that does not mean the coins are gone forever but the amount stolen is huge. Just imagine adding up all the coins stolen and scammed from that big thread at this forum and it is shocking. The pace keeps increasing too.

[sidhujag]

As a long-term believer in change I have to ride the tech wave and hope that problems will be solved by smart people working together, 1000 brains ( I hope to be one of those people) working together across the world is better than 100 brains in a company working together.

As a speculator it is great working with crypto because I come from a field where you have NO CLUE about demand (equities/forex) and about supply, since it is always changing and there is no central place to check for this... you can't place a price target accurately unless you start reading about astrology and fortelling events before they happen

So with bitcoin all I know is, you don't need faith, you need to do a tiny bit of grade-school math to know that we are deeply undervalued.. and you can extend this to find value in certain alt's that present a great investment opportunity until they do not. You make money until you can't... as a speculator I'm interesting in increasing my fiat balance, but as a long-term believer I'm interested in stacking up my bitcoin balance so one day I won't have to even go back to fait....

I have these two mind-sets... and they should offer seperation of concerns.

Finally remember we are early-adopters.. so if it does pan out... you will be rewarded beyond your wildest dreams... just takes patience and sticking to the plan. If the math fails you stand aside.. that helps to know when to get out. As of this moment bitcoin is a screaming buy... wish I had more fiat @ $400.

[Chalkbot]

Every day I hear news about exchanges being hacked, sites being taken down, coin being stolen on a daily basis day in and day out.

It's a good thing the media doesn't report everytime dollars are stolen from somewhere, or there would be nothing else in the news.

It almost makes our US banking industry look good. When do you have US banks getting hacked then closing down the next day?

US banks are not held accountable for this. They are insured, bought and bailed out, and have the option of capital controls.

When I got into bitcoin all I heard how safe it was, the encryption protects it, blah blah blah. It doesn't matter. Encryption or not, this crypto currency is more prone to being stolen then anything.

I really do hate out US banking industries, but I also never had $1 stolen from me or worry about it. And money these days aren't really "money". They're just bits and bytes on a computer somewhere.

Ever deposited money into a bank? If yes, you've had money stolen. They can legally lend your money to the next guy who walks into the door, or spend it speculatively. All banks are insolvent, but because that's okay for banks, they won't be required to close their doors like Gox was for being in the same position. Not to sound like I'm sticking up for Gox, I thought it was a heap of crap, bitcoin was made to avoid that scenario altogether. But consider that the BEST bank is basically the equivalent of the worst bitcoin exchange, in terms of business models, and you'll see why there are still advocates for bitcoin.

Soon as an exchange gets enough bitcoin you just are bound to hear soon it will be hacked or taken down for some reason.

Yeah, well, like every bitcoiner will tell you, people will keep losing their coins until they learn to stop giving them to strangers on the internet to hold onto. Bitcoin was designed for YOU to hold YOUR OWN money. Take advantage of that feature.

Even on the dark net, the ultimate drug selling site was so called "hacked" too, losing all their bitcoin that was in escrow. Everyone lost their coin. So here we have it. Legit or legal bitcoin related sites being hacked on a daily basis, being taken down on a daily basis and just leaving the trusting bitcoin community not what to think.

This will continue forever, and has nothing to do with bitcoin. For as long as there are people willing to leave money places and with people they don't know, there will be people willing to be those people you don't know. Stop feeding them. It's not like you can give all your cash to homeless dudes and hope to get it back someday either.

Apparently the bitcoin industry attracts the scum of the earth and unfortunately that's the way it will be viewed for years to come.

People giving money to strangers in exchange for a promise has been around since money was invented. This is not unique to bitcoin. There is no money that can stop you from giving it to unsavory dudes who want money, except HODL coin, which cannot be transferred under any circumstances.

[Alonzo Ewing]

I really do hate out US banking industries, but I also never had $1 stolen from me or worry about it.

This is not true.  Inflation steals 2% of your savings every year.  And that's only if it's kept at 2%.

Your money was stolen to bail out Wall Street banks.  It will be paid to them via taxes and/or inflation. 

The average debt per American is $55K.  How do you think it will be paid?  It will be stolen.

This is one big reason I like Bitcoin.  I don't want to have my money stolen by the govt.  Therefore I take my chances with Bitcoin.  I've had Bitcon stolen too, but I've had more fiat stolen in the ways I described above.  Most of my coins are in cold storage now.

If you don't buy this argument, that's perfectly understandable.  Perhaps it's not for you.

I agree that it's dangerous to hold deposit Bitcoin with trusted third parties.  But it was never designed for that.  And our tools for using/holding Bitcoin are growing stronger every day.  It's an ecosystem in evolution.

[opentoe]

I have all my bitcoin saved in storage myself with just one paper backup I only have access to. I just can only wish things would get better. If you are in your 40's and think your bitcoin hoard is going to help you later on in life I wouldn't count on it. Just for bitcoin to get out of the BETA stage could take 15+ years. By the time bitcoin is viable for you to use, you'll be long dead. If you are hoarding for your kids, then that may work out a little better. But not someone from this era. Ancient Rome started with money and it took hundreds of years for that really to catch on. Given the perspective, bitcoin is just a little dot on the time line here. I would just like to see more positive news out there on the bitcoin industry. God only knows what is making it hold in the $600's? I was sure it would drop all the way to $100 or less again.

[FierceRadish]

I have all my bitcoin saved in storage myself with just one paper backup I only have access to. I just can only wish things would get better. If you are in your 40's and think your bitcoin hoard is going to help you later on in life I wouldn't count on it. Just for bitcoin to get out of the BETA stage could take 15+ years. By the time bitcoin is viable for you to use, you'll be long dead. If you are hoarding for your kids, then that may work out a little better. But not someone from this era. Ancient Rome started with money and it took hundreds of years for that really to catch on. Given the perspective, bitcoin is just a little dot on the time line here. I would just like to see more positive news out there on the bitcoin industry. God only knows what is making it hold in the $600's? I was sure it would drop all the way to $100 or less again.

Ancient Romans weren't online. The internet is a time compression machine. If bitcoin hasn't gone mainstream in 15 years time, then either the project has failed, or another coin has succeeded.

[aminorex]

It would not be like mining bitcoins because the difficulty would not increase. When the hackers get efficient enough at decrypting or brute forcing the address, all the coins will start to be compromised at once. They will be free bitcoins, instantly forfeited by anyone who did not switch over. If enough people did not switch, the supply side will be thrown into chaos.  Think about the 1,000,000 coins that haven't been touched in years. Think about all the presently lost coins.

in any sensible protocol update it would not be LIKE mining, it would BE mining. any coins which did not make the Exodus cut off would be immediately made available to miners.

[aminorex]

God only knows what is making it hold in the $600's? I was sure it would drop all the way to $100 or less again.

Clearly you should not attempt to make a living making predictions.

God told me that it was demand which was holding it up. Demand from people who want to use it unique properties, build businesses on it, discount future value, preserve value, transact freely,  avoid thieves, transmit funds, publish transactions, etc.

[Beta-coiner1]

I actually do agree with the OP to some extent.I did lose some coins during this gox fiasco and have taken a pause from BTC to reflect on the loss.The bitcoin exchanges have become a major problem in the last few years and users interested in BTC have become the scapegoat of those losses .BTC exchanges,money and greed I don't think were ever the intent of BTC,but slowly and surely it has matured alongside.1/2 billion dollars is a lot to lose and for MT Gox to get away with.

I was thinking perhaps it is time for BTC to not be so anonymous anymore,but each coin is imprinted with biometric identifiers so even if stolen they would be marked.

[Ibian]

I was thinking perhaps it is time for BTC to not be so anonymous anymore,but each coin is imprinted with biometric identifiers so even if stolen they would be marked.

No. Take better care of your money.

[semaforo]

   What really makes bitcoin is still the bitcoin believers- if everyone panicked in every down cycle, bitcoin would have long been dead. The bitcoin believers are people who have enough of an understanding of the present financial systems and the issues with it, and enough knowledge of the functioning of bitcoin to realize what the potential impact is. The bigger that community is, the bigger the price will be.

  If you consider the percentage of the population who has a) access to enough technology b) the capacity to understand bitcoin's potential and c) money, it is clear that a and b can continually increase, resulting in more demand for bitcoin. While some people may get bitcoin in two days, it may take some people two months. For others it may take two years. Some people are more cautious- but no one wants to miss the boat.

   Sure, there is a lot of bad press- a lot of it from people who are upset that they missed the boat already and want to see bitcoin fail so they can say "I told you so!".

   Bitcoin represents a return of the issuing power of currency to the people- well, the people who can afford the mining hardware. What this effectively means is that a great deal of the wealth of the planet will be shifting from the hands of the older generation into the hands of a younger, more forward thinking group of people.

     This renewal is just part of nature- in forests, more and more branches will fall on the ground and decay, and as the bigger trees soak up all of the light, the underbrush doesn't have a chance to grow. The biodiversity of the forest, and the vitality, decrease. Finally, so much fuel piles up that the risk of fire becomes greater and greater. The forest will inevitably burn, and then all kinds of new plants will take root and blossom. Then these plants will grow up and the process repeats.

    A fire started in the last financial crisis, but the technology to suppress the fire was a little more advanced than it was in the great depression- this enabled containing the fire for a while. The fact is though, there is a whole lot of dry fuel for fire piled up, and eventually there is going to be a lighting strike or some teenagers playing with bottle rockets after an extended drought and....


    The remedy for doubt is to increase knowledge. Study the global financial system and world politics, and consider how is bitcoin going to affect this? Internet literacy continues to increase, there is a need for more efficient remissions and payment systems. Think about cany crush- they are making millions with 1 dollar credit card payments.

  As for personal responsibility, yeah there are always people who don't want to take responsibility, who want somebody else to take responsibility for them. The future belongs to the bold. If you are afraid to take risks, just sell your coins and become what I have heard called on this forum one of the "weak hands." Maybe you can get a cool job someday working for a bitcoin entrepreneur who decides to invest their fortune in community development or creating new kinds of housing developments to help people adapt to globalization and icnreasing commodity prices- because not all bitcoin investors are greedy and just in it for the money, although the greedy people help to prop up the price.

     The more people we have who believe in bitcoin and are committed to the movement, the higher the prices we will be able to support. The irony is that this means holding and spending bitcoin no matter what happens. So in other words, by not caring if we get rich or not, we will get rich. Seek knowledge and your faith will increase. 

[Jeezy911]

If you dont want to completely cash out but get out of the game then I think a good strategy would be to trade for a bunch of POS coins and just leave wallets open for a few years.

[pungopete468]

... For Bitcoin to take the sort of jump that all Bitcoiners are rooting for, it will take an economic crisis...

+1

or a political instability.

My money is on Putin to deliver this.

The parallels between him and Hitler are just too many to ignore.

Came from nothing.  Ignored by peers, probably developed inferiority complex early in life.  
Came to power by force and stays in power by force.  His nationalistic promises of  "Greater Russia" have too much of the "Lebensraum" sound to it.

Annexed neighbouring country by force on a pretext of "saving its own people".  Surrounds himself with advisers that agree with him.
Tries to lift his image by pretending to be a super macho man.  

Hitler was delusional so is Putin.  

Russians overwhelmingly support their leader, so did Germans in the summer of 1939.

I expect the unexpected from this guy very soon.

Very scary concept; I hope time will tell otherwise.

I also see some nasty parallels. That said, the United States has completely lost its moral compass and the world is a very scary and volatile place right now.

[TERA]

Here's a new approach to this thread:

A free-market fixed-supply commodity-based currency was first invented by Thomas Edison in the 1920s and became widely adopted. Since then, several different versions of this currency have been reinvented and implemented. However, none of these are here today. They have all been squashed by the fed, central banks, and governments.