It Takes 9343$ to mine one bitcoin, so no way i am selling it below 12000$

[Pursuer]

with all things said and done, it will not matter at all what the real cost of mining bitcoin is. it may be $1 or it may be $100K.
when you are speculating about price you should see what the market thinks. sometimes when speculators start believing in something they eventually also end up acting on it. for example people think because of halving the supply reduces (the world "half" maybe!) so the price should go up! but the reality is that halving has nothing to do with reduction of supply, the supply is continuing to grow. the price rise has always been the product of increasing demand and limit that max supply has. everything else is short term and hype-based.
mining cost has been the same. many speculate cost is about $6k which is one of the many reasons $6k has been a strong buy support.

[bstash]

Mining Bitcoins at home is no longer profitable. Try to mine obscure alt coins instead.  

[Ranly123]

There are huge mining farms in the USA that have half that electricity cost.  I personally have a cost of slightly less than 0.10/kwh.  Bitmain certainly doesn't have a cost that high.  You're averaging USA electrical costs and coming up with a number that btc should be valued at?  We are not the only country in the world that is mining crypto. 

All of that aside ... I would never sell my btc at 12k.  The majority of the btc that I hold will not be sold under 50k.  It can either reach those levels or I'll watch it go to zero while I continue to hold.  I don't care if it takes 3-5-7-10 years to get to the point at which I would sell, I will wait or I will watch it go to zero.

Yea sell them at 50k, but how eill you oay mining cost ?

I pay nothing for mining, my electric costs are negotiable at very bulk. Anyways the point was to notify all panic sellers that atleast don't sell btc below the mining costs it takes to make the coin

Of course, only dumb people sell below their mining cost. But if they have other source of income then selling anytime does not matter as long as the payment for power consumption does not come from the mine bitcoins. That is for what I thought it is I guess.

[rumexx]

There is no business if you do business and make  loses. So if it actually cost $9343 to mine 1 BTC why will somebody sell of at a low price that is prevalent in the market today. The best to do as you pointed out is to hold and wait for the market to reverse and watch it yield the needed profits. The FUD mongers are the major problem we are having in the crypto marketing space as they create the panic by spreading FUD which will caught up with the crypto newbie and make them to panic sell and lose their coins.

[Red-Apple]

There are huge mining farms in the USA that have half that electricity cost.  I personally have a cost of slightly less than 0.10/kwh.  Bitmain certainly doesn't have a cost that high.  You're averaging USA electrical costs and coming up with a number that btc should be valued at?  We are not the only country in the world that is mining crypto. 

All of that aside ... I would never sell my btc at 12k.  The majority of the btc that I hold will not be sold under 50k.  It can either reach those levels or I'll watch it go to zero while I continue to hold.  I don't care if it takes 3-5-7-10 years to get to the point at which I would sell, I will wait or I will watch it go to zero.

Yea sell them at 50k, but how eill you oay mining cost ?

I pay nothing for mining, my electric costs are negotiable at very bulk. Anyways the point was to notify all panic sellers that atleast don't sell btc below the mining costs it takes to make the coin

Of course, only dumb people sell below their mining cost. But if they have other source of income then selling anytime does not matter as long as the payment for power consumption does not come from the mine bitcoins. That is for what I thought it is I guess.

when deciding whether to sell or not, mining cost should be the last thing you consider because miners are NOT the ones who decide what bitcoin price should be. if the market decides it should go down then it will go down and if it decides they want to buy at certain price like $5900 then no matter what you do, no matter what the cost,... they will buy at that price.

[dohh]

Power cost is damn the main bottle neck to profitable mining. This is why some projects are coming on blockchain to see how they could harness a cheap green energy for the purpose of Crypto mining. Some companies are even owing customers due to high power cost of mining, currently they have put their mining onhold till btc prices rises enough to pay electricity. Although, this is not the case in all nations of the world as some locations have access to cheap electricity.

Well, You can also look at the other side of coin. Maybe "halving" is the bottle neck? Think, if the last halving would not had happened, mining would be at the moment 2 times more profitable. If there were not 2 halvenings, it would be 4 times more profitable, then 8 and so on...

Or You could also think: mining would be as profitable at price level 2 times lower, than now, 4 times lower etc.

Halving: pyramidal scheme. Period.

[1Referee]

I am taking a wild guess here, by saying that a more realistic global average would be more like $2000 per coin. 

I think that's pretty much on the lower side, but I have no doubt about larger miners to have way lower generation cost ratios than current price levels.

If you take into consideration that larger miners have much higher block generation frequencies, the cost per minted Bitcoin decreases significantly, even if your electricity rates aren't the cheapest in the industry. In that regard, you can counter electricity rates by having yourself account for a large part of the network, but in Bitcoin's case, it will cost you dozens of millions in gear to obtain that sort of advantage over the rest.

So, it is still very profitable for a lot of people to continue mining in a lot of countries. 

I'm not sure if that's actually the case. Current levels are really pushing home miners to their limits, and it may even have resulted in people to swallow current unprofitability in the hope that the coins they generate increase in value in the next couple of months. What if the price remains below $7000 for the rest of the year? People's patience doesn't last endlessly unless they are hardcore Bitcoin enthusiasts.

[dohh]

I am taking a wild guess here, by saying that a more realistic global average would be more like $2000 per coin. 

I think that's pretty much on the lower side, but I have no doubt about larger miners to have way lower generation cost ratios than current price levels.

If you take into consideration that larger miners have much higher block generation frequencies, the cost per minted Bitcoin decreases significantly, even if your electricity rates aren't the cheapest in the industry. In that regard, you can counter electricity rates by having yourself account for a large part of the network, but in Bitcoin's case, it will cost you dozens of millions in gear to obtain that sort of advantage over the rest.

So, it is still very profitable for a lot of people to continue mining in a lot of countries. 

I'm not sure if that's actually the case. Current levels are really pushing home miners to their limits, and it may even have resulted in people to swallow current unprofitability in the hope that the coins they generate increase in value in the next couple of months. What if the price remains below $7000 for the rest of the year? People's patience doesn't last endlessly unless they are hardcore Bitcoin enthusiasts.

Problem is well described by Referee.

What would follow in this scenario: miners would have choice, quit mining or group up into farms. After each halving pressure on mining ROI doubles over night! That means only the most effective few farms could operate profitably. But that again... would not be very decentralized, right?

[bitfocus]

may be your mining operation is costly, but some people are getting cheaper power and their mining cost is lower than yours, so, you may be unable to sale, but current price is still profitable for some - so, trade and sale will continue.

[dohh]

may be your mining operation is costly, but some people are getting cheaper power and their mining cost is lower than yours, so, you may be unable to sale, but current price is still profitable for some - so, trade and sale will continue.

You fail to understand the power of exponential numbers. ROI of mining BTC is diminishning exponentially.

[ganlianshifu1]

The cost of mining BTC is always changing!
In fact, the miners are not simply concerned about the current price of Bitcoin.
As long as the miners believe that Bitcoin will still be able to go up in the future, then they will not care about the current losses, but will continue to dig down and sell them after the currency.

[drm]

with all things said and done, it will not matter at all what the real cost of mining bitcoin is. it may be $1 or it may be $100K.

Something with nail and head
Supply and demand is what will be making the price.

[kostia21]

so, the cryptocurrency gradually begins to enter our lives, and the current price of bitcoin I think is temporary, and over time it will be much higher))

[kostia21]

may be your mining operation is costly, but some people are getting cheaper power and their mining cost is lower than yours, so, you may be unable to sale, but current price is still profitable for some - so, trade and sale will continue.

You fail to understand the power of exponential numbers. ROI of mining BTC is diminishning exponentially.

and the fact that he is now down it's just temporary and he soon attains its former peak price))) so now just have to wait the best time)))

[larkinvain]

Though I don't have much idea about bitcoin mining but if your information is true then Bitcoin miners are mining bitcoin in lose? Bitcoin is under 9K USD from April, then these times miners haven't gotten any profit?

[figmentofmyass]

If we deal with such a logic, it means that the price will be correlated with the increasing difficulty of mining, which means that the rate will increase continuously.

it is correlated. the thing is, a lot of people believe that price follows difficulty---that's totally absurd. nobody gives a shit about mining costs, they only care about the price. difficulty follows price, not the other way around.

in a very bearish scenario, it will just take a while (probably years) for that reality to set in. the relationship between price and difficulty is very inefficient. for now, miners and mining chip producers are obviously still bullish and have the capital to back their operations. they're betting on the long term.

[franky1]

current hashrate is 52exa 7 day average

at 14 th per asic
thats 3714286 asics always running fighting to get blocks and btc

asics get replaced once a year on average. current cost of an asic is $850
so thats $3157143100 a year of equipment= $4805.392846270928 a btc of equipment (/365/24/6/12.5)

3714286 asics at 1.3kwh = 4828571.8kwh always running all the time at the hashrate
which is 64380.95733333333kwh per btc

now looking at where all the main mining farms are and stuff. its actually about 3cents per kwh
(sorry to the guy that linked a world electric price.. but thats consumer retail rate. mining farms get wholesale discount, which is the majority of hashrate.. yea china is 3cents not 8.6cents)
=1931.42872 of electric per btc

so $6736.821566270928 electric and ASIC hardware

i wont go into the math for everyones unique variables of if they bought rigs at X price or electric is at Y

but if anyone is interested in some simple math

ASIC cost X * 0.1087192951645006 * exahashrate (where X is the dollar amount you paid for hardware)
electric Y * 12.38095333333333 * exahashrate (where Y is cent per kwh)
then just X+Y

EG 850 unit and 3 cent electric

lets take the asic 1750 cost of start of year and take january hashrate of 15exa (2853.8540625)
and chinas electric557.142899985
=$3411

im guessing the linked study that was based in january used a 14exa range for its math which would then make china correct at he $3100 range for china in that study (5 january '18 =14exa)

anyway. knowing the low 3cent electric and a low price rig of $850 and the hashrate.. its good to know that the majority of hashrate is on par with the current price..
when farming pools can buy coin cheaper than mine them, they will.
when they can make profit selling coin they will

which is why this week we have seen the prices around the mid $6k range.

as for everyone else that bought rigs at higher prices or have higher electric. they are gonna hold.
thus not want to sell

[franky1]

If we deal with such a logic, it means that the price will be correlated with the increasing difficulty of mining, which means that the rate will increase continuously.

it is correlated. the thing is, a lot of people believe that price follows difficulty---that's totally absurd. nobody gives a shit about mining costs, they only care about the price. difficulty follows price, not the other way around.

in a very bearish scenario, it will just take a while (probably years) for that reality to set in. the relationship between price and difficulty is very inefficient. for now, miners and mining chip producers are obviously still bullish and have the capital to back their operations. they're betting on the long term.

price follows speculation

but the LOW (value people refuse to sell) follows mining and long term acquisition cost

its why you dont see antpool btc.com and the other farms 4X thier hashrate in december 17 and then 3x down their hashrate in 2018 because the big farms dont sheep follow price
no one can predict the next ATH
but knowing the bottomline mining costs of the majority. and looking at how much of the coins UTXO changed after a certain bottomline price gives a good judgement of the scope of the majority wont sell below.

im still measuring a safe $5800-$6k bottom. due to august data which got tested in the first week of september so still to early to raise what i believe the bottom line is above $6k. but definitely above the high $5k range, though $6.1k seems a healthy low to mark in pencil as a the bottom line. just not permanent marker for me

[gotminer]

There are huge mining farms in the USA that have half that electricity cost.  I personally have a cost of slightly less than 0.10/kwh.  Bitmain certainly doesn't have a cost that high.  You're averaging USA electrical costs and coming up with a number that btc should be valued at?  We are not the only country in the world that is mining crypto.  

All of that aside ... I would never sell my btc at 12k.  The majority of the btc that I hold will not be sold under 50k.  It can either reach those levels or I'll watch it go to zero while I continue to hold.  I don't care if it takes 3-5-7-10 years to get to the point at which I would sell, I will wait or I will watch it go to zero.

Yea sell them at 50k, but how eill you oay mining cost ?

I pay nothing for mining, my electric costs are negotiable at very bulk. Anyways the point was to notify all panic sellers that atleast don't sell btc below the mining costs it takes to make the coin

How to pay for the electrical cost of mining today, if you hold your mined coins for years?  Simple ... Pay for it with other fiat that isn't invested in crypto.

[gotminer]

I think you're misjudging the cost of mining. Many large miners spend about $ 6000 per bitcoin, in China about $ 5000. If you personally spend $ 12,000 on creating one bitcoin, this does not mean that everyone has such a situation.

Yeah I think he is fuckered up.  In the past 12 months, I have mined and traded for approx. 3 btc.  Those three btc cost me approx 6k usd in electricity.  The hardware cost me approx. 20k usd.  I plan on holding them for the next several years, if need be.  You do the math.