Proposed guidelines for bounty managers. @theymos pls take a look and help us.

[The Cryptovator]

As far as we know there is no any guidelines or rules for bounty managers. Bounty section became a important part of this forum. Bounty managers almost directly involved with spam. We can see different reaction regarding bounty managers from members. Day by day increasing scammy and spammy activity on bounty section.

Lot of members suggested different opinion to avoid spam and scam from forum. But I think nothing is possible without theymos help. Theymos should publish a guidelines for bounty managers. I write few suggestion (draft) below, theymos could consider some of them if need.  


Best option for me if required Bitcoin for bounty campaign. ERC-20 is useless until it listed on reputed exchange. Since this is Bitcoin forum so forum could require Bitcoin for bounty award. Bounty means advertising on this forum. If require btc payment by escrow than we can avoid scam & spam. At least they will not able to scam bounty hunters. I think theymos will not agree with it. So I would like to suggest to implement some guidelines or rules bounty managers. Forum should not give them freedom to promote scam ICO's.  

• Bounty manager's shouldn't ask submit report on OP, bounty report should collect by Google form. Proof of annunciation can be post to avoid bounty cheaters.
  
• Since scam(upcoming or ongoing) are not moderated by forum, no stake distribution on time frame will consider for scam. If a manager failed to distribution stake among bounty participant he should get temp ban for each campaign. 3 temp ban result will be permaban.
  

• Managers shouldn't ask or forced more than 20 post per week for alt coin reward to avoid spam. Or they can pay per post
• Managers shouldn't accept spammer and spam post on count.

• Bounty managers shouldn't not ask reply on thread for airdrop, bounty and ANN Thread. If asked than thread should be trashed and OP should get temp ban
• Thread should be locked after stake distributions.  Because sometimes people's reply even bounty is over.

• BM should lock bounty, ANN and Airdrop thread if team unable to give appropriate answers against scam accusation.
  
• Bumping thread with similar word of "great project" by newbie and Jr. Member is prohibited.  More than 15 comment a day like this will consider paid bumping except constructive discussion. If use paid bumping, thread should be trashed and OP should get temp ban.
  

• Bounty manager's should not spend merit on his own bounty thread.
• If need KYC approval for receive stake BM should mention in bounty thread. No mention means there isn't require KYC in order to get stake.
  

• Both account should ban if caught managing bounty with alt account to avoid ban evasion.
  
• Bounty manager's could add disclaimer on bounty thread, it's doesn't mean he/she will not get ban if stake isn't distributed on time. Bounty manager fully responsible if stake not distributed for hunters.
  

• Duplicate thread are not allowed if previous thread trashed by moderators.
• Bounty budget shouldn't decrease after end of campaign if there is more than 100 participant on spreadsheet.

• Bounty thread should made self moderated to delete spam post. ( I am not encourage made self moderated thread for ANN. Because peoples will not able to share true opinion. They might be delete all negative comments. Better option is remove self moderated option from Altcoins Announcement section)    

• Ponzi scheme should not allow to promote on bounty section. ( All ponzi scheme turn into scam eventually)

There is few question if bounty managed by themselves how it will control. My opinion, let them do it themselves by getting copper membership. At least reputed and rank members are not related with them. If hunters trust them and participate on bounty than nothing we can do.  But rules should applicable for all main poster.

[1714117530]

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[1714117530]

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[pawel7777]

Good effort. But you have to consider that admin/mods are not willing to (and cannot in practice) investigate content of every topic, not to mention things like following on bounty-campaign progress and checking whether participants got paid etc. Just put yourself in their shoes.

If you want to create a 'good practice' guide topic - that's fine. But if you want to introduce new forum rules proposal, then you have to boil it down to something clear and simple. ie.something like this could solve the problem:

"Bounty campaigns organisers are responsible for preventing spam-posting of their participants. Providing incentive to spam, or failure to counter it can result in ban for both: participant guilty of spam and campaign organiser"

... but it's probably already too complicated and could be impossible to enforce. How do you define who's 'organiser' (there could be multiple accounts involved), who decide where's the line between normal post and spam? How many spam post does it take to get organiser banned etc.

You could have a separate discussion thread for every point that you proposed. But what strikes me is that you're attributing too much power to bounty managers. Often times they're just middle men between ICO organisers and participants and have no say on things like when/if the tokens are issued, what's the budget and its distribution, even minimum post requirements could be decided by ICO devs.

[Ardavan2150]

Oh my gosh. I second all your points. We definitely need some guidelines like this. There are a ton of scam bounties out there. We do not have enough time to go through all.
Specially, when you suggest bitcoin as prize for bounty hunters, fabulous. I WISH this will become true one day.

[coinlocket$]

Sorry but it's hard to quote OP list  

• Bounty manager's shouldn't ask submit report on OP, bounty report should collect by Google form. Proof of annunciation can be post to avoid bounty cheaters.
  

What if someone uses 30 accounts? He can cheats anyway

• Since scam(upcoming or ongoing) are not moderated by forum, no stake distribution on time frame will consider for scam. If a manager failed to distribution stake among bounty participant he should get temp ban for each campaign. 3 temp ban result will be permaban.
  

Some managers complete their job at the end of the bounty, yes they don't probably even read reports.

• Managers shouldn't ask or forced more than 20 post per week for alt coin reward to avoid spam. Or they can pay per post

Depens, if post are good why this cap?

• Managers shouldn't accept spammer and spam post on count.

Agree, but it will never happen. Probably are the ICO owner who ask for spam on 1st place.

• Bounty managers shouldn't not ask reply on thread for airdrop, bounty and ANN Thread. If asked than thread should be trashed and OP should get temp ban

Already done.

• Thread should be locked after stake distributions.  Because sometimes people's reply even bounty is over.

Agree, but actually is one of the best way to find bots and multi accounts bots.

[/list]

• BM should lock bounty, ANN and Airdrop thread if team unable to give appropriate answers against scam accusation.
  

Agree.

• Bumping thread with similar word of "great project" by newbie and Jr. Member is prohibited.  More than 15 comment a day like this will consider paid bumping except constructive discussion. If use paid bumping, thread should be trashed and OP should get temp ban.
  

I do not agree.
And if I do 30 accounts and spam on your thread? You should be banned?

• Bounty manager's should not spend merit on his own bounty thread.

Agree.

• If need KYC approval for receive stake BM should mention in bounty thread. No mention means there isn't require KYC in order to get stake.
  

Agree. Buf if the ICO's owner ask if before distrubution?

• Both account should ban if caught managing bounty with alt account to avoid ban evasion.
  

The can always use another account or friend to post for them.

• Bounty manager's could add disclaimer on bounty thread, it's doesn't mean he/she will not get ban if stake isn't distributed on time. Bounty manager fully responsible if stake not distributed for hunters.
  

Some managers, are here only for 1 project or scam project and they will leave the account after their ICO, in this way you punish only regulars manager but I agree with this.

• Duplicate thread are not allowed if previous thread trashed by moderators.

I do not agree, someone can do 10000000 accounts and spam one thread only to make mods delete it.

• Bounty budget shouldn't decrease after end of campaign if there is more than 100 participant on spreadsheet.

Yea if target is reached, the decreasing for no reason should be punished, but if it not bounty manager fault?

• Bounty thread should made self moderated to delete spam post. ( I am not encourage made self moderated thread for ANN. Because peoples will not able to share true opinion. They might be delete all negative comments. Better option is remove self moderated option from Altcoins Announcement section)    

I don't know this has pro and contro.

• Ponzi scheme should not allow to promote on bounty section. ( All ponzi scheme turn into scam eventually)

Ponzi are always scam.

[manfredmann]

Definitely this is a good and helpful thread regarding on getting rid of spam and shitposts. I was forseeing this that theymos will implement some changes on rulings and policy for bounty managers in those bounty sections as I posted it in my thread few hours earlier than this thread.
 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5038486.msg46234638#msg46234638)

Just posted this few hours earlier and it was indeed a coincidence that my post and OP's thread providing effort to help and keep the forum healthy for cryptocurrency discussions.

theymos was really considerate on some of the members here that are not doing their responsibility as well. Spamming was really a problem and somehow it was being address properly. I bet there will be more and coming implementation of policies to address some problems like in those bounty sections and ICO projects with how bounty managers should implement social media bounty program reports. There will come a time that the problem with these sections will be adhere. Bounty managers must prepare for this!
 

I had my 100% support for OP with this!

[Lauda]

Quite a number of these rules are overly complicated or just outright nonsensical; they would lead to to severe worsening of the situation. You really need to think this through. There aren't even explicit rules against spamming by theymos (e.g. posting from several accounts just to get paid).

[Gloverwrt]

I think it would be better to apply stricter moderation in bounty and ANN section.
Also instead of submitting reports, BM could directly track users post through their profile (I think a few do this). It would reduce mega threads and pyramid posts.
We have to accept that as long as there are bounties spam will come with the traffic it generates.
The new merit system is helping curb that.

[JetAid]

For what its worth bitcoin is technically a ponzi scam as well, everyone I know in real life calls it a ponzi scam.  All the early investors got insanely rich while new investors have lost money.

I don't think that is true, Ponzi schemes don't have a means to transfer funds directly between investors, Due to inflation, almost every asset class has rewarded early investors - just look at property and gold for example. Not all new buyers of Bitcoin have lost money, and there is price volatility with all forms of currency. Bitcoin is an asset, but it is in a different class - virtual assets, and most people have difficulty in understand this about bitcoin, however they seem to be able to understand the values of other virtual assets such as domain names, fiat bank deposits, games awards and some others.

As a member of Bitcoin Talk, I think you should clarify the situation with your friends, and make them aware of the advantages they are missing by rejecting Bitcoin.

[erikoy]

Well the problem is not about the bounty managers as well as their rules whom they created and posted on bounty sections. There are some things that we should consider also and that is the part where bounty managers introduces an ICO projects. Some of them are just accepting the job as a bounty manager even if there is a need to check first the project before accepting it.

As we all know that the ICO projects nowadays are flooding in the bounty section and this is the real problem. Most of it are labeled as fraud for some of them will not comply and will make their own adjustments as long as they want it and favorable to them. ICO projects could be introduced on bounty sections anytime since it is free and there is no required documents to assert the that the ICO project is legit. The likely to scam others would be high because of the ICO projects team are anonymous or could isolate themselves and run away after getting the money from its investors.

To run an ICO projects and promote it here in the forum should undergone screening procedures. Thus, starting an ICO project should require some relevant documents for the team that would be held liable for the money of the investors. The Lesser the ICO projects,the lesser people that could work on the bounty sections and lesser spamming posts will be made by the bounty hunters but higher rate to get good rewards than being scammed with an ICO project.

[Heisenberg_Hunter]

Best option for me if required Bitcoin for bounty campaign. ERC-20 is useless until it listed on reputed exchange.

Note that you are advertising an ERC20 token(BQT) in your signature.
What makes you say so that ERC20 is useless? EOS was an ERC20, BnB is an ERC20. Both of them weren't traded in reputed exchanges at first. Many even thought that BnB along with its exchange would fail miserably.
Does that mean they are useless?
Listing in a reputed exchange alone won't make the token/coin great enough to be accepted as a legit one. Are you exactly against tokens or the scams and spams happening around the forum? If you are against alts stop advertising ERC20 in your signature.

Since this is Bitcoin forum so forum could require Bitcoin for bounty award.

No, this is no more a bitcoin forum. This is one of the largest cryptocurrency forums. If this is a btc forum, then why does it have "Alt currencies board and why do they allow ANN of alts?"

Regarding your guidelines, they are already being followed by some of the reputed and spam free managers.

[mazdafunsun]

Some of your points are legit , but most of them is impossible to implement beacuse it would require huge moderator efforts, mods have their hands full and part of your suggestions is not the forum's responsibilty.

This is by far the most rational suggestion so far.

Too complicated and almost on manager would follow (or even read) the guideline. Give a warning when make new thread on Bounties Section with bolded red text and message such as "Your will be banned and your threads will be deleted if majority of your member break forum rules".

Also it is not like mods are not doing anything, even with this huge job, there is a negative trust given for managers who are dishonest and are promotng scam ICOs repeatedly.

[morvillz7z]

I have only one recommendation towards bounty managers. Take 30 minutes of your precious time and check the project before you accept to manage it.
I know it's not your job to verify the legitimacy of the project but in a very short time and almost no effort you can potentially save the forum from thousands of unwanted/spammy comments, weekly bumps and most importantly unpaid bounty hunters (also managers).

Take this as a friendly suggestion, it's not too much to ask, right?

[The Cryptovator]

Quite a number of these rules are overly complicated or just outright nonsensical; they would lead to to severe worsening of the situation. You really need to think this through. There aren't even explicit rules against spamming by theymos (e.g. posting from several accounts just to get paid).

Yes, it's little bit complicated. But at least need few guidelines or rules from admin to reduce spam and scam.

Note that you are advertising an ERC20 token(BQT) in your signature.

I am fully aware about that. For your information this campaign reward is by btc and this is spam free campaign as well there is merit required. You are ignoring my point, award should be by bitcoin. So participant no need to worry about exit scam except investors.

For what its worth bitcoin is technically a ponzi scam as well, everyone I know in real life calls it a ponzi scam.  All the early investors got insanely rich while new investors have lost money.

How you consider bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, there are no promising return. How new investors are lost money ? Someones scam them ? There is any promising high return on bitcoin whitepaper ?

Take 30 minutes of your precious time and check the project before you accept to manage it.
Take this as a friendly suggestion, it's not too much to ask, right?

This is not going to happen if there is no any guidelines or rules from forum.

[julerz12]

• Bounty manager's could add disclaimer on bounty thread, it's doesn't mean he/she will not get ban if stake isn't distributed on time. Bounty manager fully responsible if stake not distributed for hunters.
• Bounty budget shouldn't decrease after end of campaign if there is more than 100 participant on spreadsheet.
• Since scam(upcoming or ongoing) are not moderated by forum, no stake distribution on time frame will consider for scam. If a manager failed to distribution stake among bounty participant he should get temp ban for each campaign. 3 temp ban result will be permaban.
  

These can be easily fixed by forcing bounty campaigns to always have an official escrow for the bounty pool. Having an escrow to hold the bounty pool means that the project team can no longer change the allocated bounty pool and the date of bounty distribution. Of course, escrow must be highly trusted within this community to avoid him/her running off with the bounty funds.  

• Bumping thread with similar word of "great project" by newbie and Jr. Member is prohibited.  More than 15 comment a day like this will consider paid bumping except constructive discussion. If use paid bumping, thread should be trashed and OP should get temp ban.
  

This could potentially be abused by the project's competitors. Create a bunch of alts and spam post your competitor's ANN thread to get it trashed.  

[Tszunami98]

Great effort, but there are some things that you don't understand about a free market. Let me point some out.

There is supply, and there is demand, that being said, you are not allowed to require anything about how payments should be made. There is the decision of the business how it desires to pay customers...btc or own tokens.

• Bounty manager's shouldn't ask submit report on OP, bounty report should collect by Google form. Proof of annunciation can be post to avoid bounty cheaters.
  
  

Everyone has a different method to run his campaign. There is no one's business to intervene.

• Managers shouldn't ask or forced more than 20 post per week for alt coin reward to avoid spam. Or they can pay per post

The number of posts are usually required by the business. Can you force a bounty manager not to take a job because his client wants 25 posts per week?

• Managers shouldn't accept spammer and spam post on count.

I agree, but you can't force them.

• Bounty managers shouldn't not ask reply on thread for airdrop, bounty and ANN Thread. If asked than thread should be trashed and OP should get temp ban

I am pretty sure it is not allowed to incentivise people to bump up threads. In any case, i don't see how thrashing the post would help with that...a red trust should be enough.

li]Thread should be locked after stake distributions.  Because sometimes people's reply even bounty is over.[/li][/list]

Actually, the best way to identify scammers is to leave the thread open and then just ban those who continue posting after 3-4 weeks have passed since the end of a campaign.

• Both account should ban if caught managing bounty with alt account to avoid ban evasion.
  
  

Hard to say here, they could do it so they won't recieve retaliation trust from the scammers in the bounty.

li]Bounty manager's could add disclaimer on bounty thread, it's doesn't mean he/she will not get ban if stake isn't distributed on time. Bounty manager fully responsible if stake not distributed for hunters.

I still haven't found a reason why disclaimers help in any way...
Tokens are usually paid by the team, why would the bounty manager be responsible if the team doesen't deliver?
The team could decide to alocate bounty tokens proportionally with the ammount sold. Some of them market a big bounty budget to attract more people (if hardcap is reached)...you know, that's how marketing works

• Bounty budget shouldn't decrease after end of campaign if there is more than 100 participant on spreadsheet.

Bounty budget and the number of participants are negociated and agreed by the team and the bounty manager. Nobody's business, except them, how many participants should be allowed to participate.

• Ponzi scheme should not allow to promote on bounty section. ( All ponzi scheme turn into scam eventually)

I am pretty sure this is kinda obvious. They should not be allowed to be promoted anywhere on the forum.

In the end, before making rules or something like that, try to understand the dynamic of the the agreement between the bounty manager and the business.[/list]

[The Cryptovator]

This could potentially be abused by the project's competitors. Create a bunch of alts and spam post your competitor's ANN thread to get it trashed.  

So bumping thread should allow? I don't think it will happen very much. Everyone's busy with their own projects. I accept it might be hapoen 0.1% , it doesn't mean we should allow bumping ANN thread. On the other hand accoumt also will permaban those are related with bumping service.

Bounty budget and the number of participants are negociated and agreed by the team and the bounty manager. Nobody's business, except them, how many participants should be allowed to participate.  

Budget details should publish from beginning. Should not change after end of ICO.

Everyone has a different method to run his campaign. There is no one's business to intervene.    

That's why need guidelines or rules.

The number of posts are usually required by the business. Can you force a bounty manager not to take a job because his client wants 25 posts per week?  

Clients are not allowed to decide about forum rules. Only admin can. I told you, that's why need guidelines from admin.

[Heisenberg_Hunter]

Note that you are advertising an ERC20 token(BQT) in your signature.

I am fully aware about that. For your information this campaign reward is by btc and this is spam free campaign as well there is merit required. You are ignoring my point, award should be by bitcoin. So participant no need to worry about exit scam except investors.

I will disagree with your point. I am aware about the campaign rewards being paid in Btc and it is being run by Zapo as I was a part of similar campaign run by them. Participants are mere advertisers and promoters/ marketers of the product. There might be a newbie investor who view this signature and might invest in the project with little read through of the white paper. I have seen some DT negging some bounty hunters who promote the scam even after the projects were exposed. Both Participants and managers who promote the project should be aware of the project they are endorsing so that it doesn't misguide any newbie investor who enter this field.

How you consider bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, there are no promising return. How new investors are lost money ? Someones scam them ? There is any promising high return on bitcoin whitepaper ?

I agree with this solely. FYI Dick bigs a Ponzi is something where the people/group of people urge others to invest in their companies or so called great returns schemes. Also a ponzi scheme owner promises gains if the people invest in their company. Did satoshi ever say anyone to invest in bitcoin? Was it even worth enough to buy few thousands of btc for a $ in late 2009? If you/anyone who say btc is a ponzi it clearly states that you doesn't even understand what a ponzi is! You are not urged by anyone to invest in btc nor satoshi didn't run away with the money as commonly ICO owners does!

[julerz12]

This could potentially be abused by the project's competitors. Create a bunch of alts and spam post your competitor's ANN thread to get it trashed.  

So bumping thread should allow? I don't think it will happen very much. Everyone's busy with their own projects. I accept it might be hapoen 0.1% , it doesn't mean we should allow bumping ANN thread. On the other hand accoumt also will permaban those are related with bumping service.

Bounty budget and the number of participants are negociated and agreed by the team and the bounty manager. Nobody's business, except them, how many participants should be allowed to participate.  

Budget details should publish from beginning. Should not change after end of ICO.

Everyone has a different method to run his campaign. There is no one's business to intervene.    

That's why need guidelines or rules.

The number of posts are usually required by the business. Can you force a bounty manager not to take a job because his client wants 25 posts per week?  

Clients are not allowed to decide about forum rules. Only admin can. I told you, that's why need guidelines from admin.

The ones in bold, I said that. But the messages below it, you're quoting the wrong person buddy  
Back to the topic, The current rule states that bumping on one's thread is allowed provided that it's the OP that bumps it and it is done only once every 24 hrs. If anyone is found breaking such rules, why not just report them?

[cjie]

Lending coins project should not be allowed to advise their bounty campaign here. I have not seen any lending coin that has lasted for more than a year. They are all scam.

[The Cryptovator]

Lending coins project should not be allowed to advise their bounty campaign here. I have not seen any lending coin that has lasted for more than a year. They are all scam.

I have mentioned about ponzi scheme.

Ponzi scheme should not allow to promote on bounty section. ( All ponzi scheme turn into scam eventually)

All lending platform are consider as a ponzi scheme. All ponzi scheme has became scam eventually.