Do you mine or do you bake?

[cuteblocks]

It's an interesting question to me. I've been mining BTC over the years but the high energy demand has made me look into other solutions. Originally a strong believer in Proof-of-Work (POW), I have recently looked deeper into Liquid Proof-of-Stake (LPOS). In other words, now not only am I mining (in fact I do no longer, I Just hodl my BTC) -- I am now baking. That's how it's called in Tezos. 

Do you mine or do you bake, or do you do both?

[franky1]

PoS costs nothing to create a block. and so gives no value to the cost of acquisition of the fresh minted coins.

PoW has a cost and no one is foolish to sell at a loss. this gives bitcoin an underline value.

the underlying value is not the PRICE. the underlying value is the bottomline that the market would let the price fall too

PoS in short has no bottomline.

the only thing holding up PoS is the traders support of what the community bought at and what they wont sll below.
however the PoS block creators could undersell the traders support because it cost less for the PoS to get their coins so happy to sell for less than traders. as its still profitable

EG if gold was created by signing paper. gold wont have a underlying cost built up of mining. and then those signing for new gold could sell gold at a penny and still profit.

[squatter]

PoS costs nothing to create a block. and so gives no value to the cost of acquisition of the fresh minted coins.

PoW has a cost and no one is foolish to sell at a loss. this gives bitcoin an underline value.

That's inaccurate. In both consensus systems, it's not the cost that matters. Users don't care about miner/minter costs -- why would they? You're only addressing supply, not demand.

Even then, your assumption that miners won't sell at a loss is not only unprovable but irrational. That's like saying no investor -- in any asset -- would ever sell at a loss. If that were true, every market would rise in perpetuity. That's untrue on its face.

Aside from speculation, users are paying for security. Users aren't buying BTC so that unprofitable miners can reach their break-even point.

[Cryptogid]

Mining of bitcoin is a long thing for me,I really am practicing the baking part now,that makes a lot of sense,hold long pays..

[franky1]

PoS costs nothing to create a block. and so gives no value to the cost of acquisition of the fresh minted coins.

PoW has a cost and no one is foolish to sell at a loss. this gives bitcoin an underline value.

That's inaccurate. In both consensus systems, it's not the cost that matters. Users don't care about miner/minter costs -- why would they? You're only addressing supply, not demand. [1]

Even then, your assumption that miners won't sell at a loss is not only unprovable but irrational. That's like saying no investor -- in any asset -- would ever sell at a loss. If that were true, every market would rise in perpetuity. That's untrue on its face.

Aside from speculation, users are paying for security. Users aren't buying BTC so that unprofitable miners can reach their break-even point.

[1.] the cost of mining does NOT equal the current price. but does create a support of underlying value
EG when the price was $20k. the underlying support was around a few thousand
from november 2017 to date no one has taken the opportunity to sell below $5.800

this is because of a underlying value created by acquisition cost.
in those 10 months. over 65% of the community moved coins. yep 65% of all coins in circulation moved. and so those obtaining the coins when they moved hands then valued them at $5,800 or above...
mining costs curved. and is also now above $5,800. even with this summers cheaper mining rigs.

so thats alot of support not wanting to sell below $5,800
now there has been 10 months of opportunity to sell below 5,800.. no one is biting.
the VALUE, imagine it like a ground level water line.. or the water line of a bathtub people fear putting head under the water line because they can drown
the PRICE, imagine it like the waves above the water. or the bubbles of a bathtub. these can move and change all the time. people ride the waves and splash the water to create waves and stir things up to make bubbles.

its why they say the $20k PRICE was a bubble/tsunami because it flated too fast and didnt show rational reason for supporting such a high level and didnt have a good backing my a majority acquiring coins at such a high value to support it nor had mining costs accelerate to support keeping it up. and so it corrected down to more sensible levels. where the majority would refuse to sell below.
PoS coins have no underlying costs so those receiving coins from PoS would happily sell below any price/suport

again values of PoW coins are rising perpetually. but people are only looking at the tips of waves and bubbles and shouting its not perpetual.
they are not looking at the BOTTOM waterline that shows waterlevels growing slowly

[squatter]

PoS costs nothing to create a block. and so gives no value to the cost of acquisition of the fresh minted coins.

PoW has a cost and no one is foolish to sell at a loss. this gives bitcoin an underline value.

That's inaccurate. In both consensus systems, it's not the cost that matters. Users don't care about miner/minter costs -- why would they? You're only addressing supply, not demand. [1]

Even then, your assumption that miners won't sell at a loss is not only unprovable but irrational. That's like saying no investor -- in any asset -- would ever sell at a loss. If that were true, every market would rise in perpetuity. That's untrue on its face.

Aside from speculation, users are paying for security. Users aren't buying BTC so that unprofitable miners can reach their break-even point.

[1.] the cost of mining does NOT equal the current price. but does create a support of underlying value
EG when the price was $20k. the underlying support was around a few thousand
from november 2017 to date no one has taken the opportunity to sell below $5.800

Perhaps no one has taken the opportunity yet. It was at that level just last month, so your point isn't very convincing. Either way, you're using arbitrary numbers to cherry-pick. Some miners definitely have costs below your arbitrary estimates. Throwing out $5,800 as "the cost to mine a bitcoin" (for the last 10 months?) is totally inaccurate and overgeneralizing. You're just cherry-picking to fit the recent lows on the chart to support your illogical narrative.

Logically, miner costs don't "create a support." Price support implies demand. Whether miners withhold newly mined coins from the market doesn't matter if there is no demand.

this is because of a underlying value created by acquisition cost.

You keep saying that, but there's no evidence to support that idea. It's logically incorrect, since you aren't explaining how demand exists at that price. Mining costs do not create demand from users and investors.

[aryaadikariyansyahsuwarto]

I really want to do bitcoin mining, only here no one teaches and supports. So now I'm only a true bitcoin hunter through bounty. But I didn't give up looking for friends who could teach me to mine bitcoin ... !!

[oriontab]

PoS costs nothing to create a block. and so gives no value to the cost of acquisition of the fresh minted coins.

PoW has a cost and no one is foolish to sell at a loss. this gives bitcoin an underline value.

the underlying value is not the PRICE. the underlying value is the bottomline that the market would let the price fall too

PoS in short has no bottomline.

the only thing holding up PoS is the traders support of what the community bought at and what they wont sll below.
however the PoS block creators could undersell the traders support because it cost less for the PoS to get their coins so happy to sell for less than traders. as its still profitable

EG if gold was created by signing paper. gold wont have a underlying cost built up of mining. and then those signing for new gold could sell gold at a penny and still profit.

The concept of an underlining value is something very important that persons seem to forget. For example, it costs on the average about 6k USD to mine one bitcoin. So one can say 1bitcoin is worth at least 6k worth of energy. POW is expensive but it is still my best. Don't forget the security advantages also

[gandame]

I really want to do bitcoin mining, only here no one teaches and supports. So now I'm only a true bitcoin hunter through bounty. But I didn't give up looking for friends who could teach me to mine bitcoin ... !!

Me too i want to try but the problem is electricity here in our place are very expensive thats is why i change my mind. Now i have only a little bit of bitcoin and i want to hold it for a long time and wait that bitcoin price will goes up.

[mostkey]

I was not very interested in mining, because high electricity costs, which might not be comparable to the income I got from mining, forced me to just hold BTC, even though I was very interested in mining, but after I tried mining in a few months, It does not cover the cost of electricity and maintenance of the equipment that I have to spend every month, because the hold asset remains the best step I can do to date.

[fara_buduk]

I was not very interested in mining, because high electricity costs, which might not be comparable to the income I got from mining, forced me to just hold BTC, even though I was very interested in mining, but after I tried mining in a few months, It does not cover the cost of electricity and maintenance of the equipment that I have to spend every month, because the hold asset remains the best step I can do to date.

I am also the same as you. I am not interested in mining because I need a lot of funds to buy components. I prefer to trade and hold a few coins

[felicanoma]

Right now I am only baking my bitcoin because I do not have enough capital to mine other than expensive mining equipment, electricity is also very expensive in our place so I don't take that risk.
And at this time the price of bitcoin is falling so if it is calculated I will experience a loss compared to profit.

[pooya87]

what you just said is exactly one of the biggest problems with some of the other consensus algorithms that some of the altcoins use. you are receiving free money for doing nothing! basically you hold some coins then you receive "stakes" "bakes" or whatever else they want to call it but it is free money that they are distributing and you may have a small amount but there are whales who have much more. they don't have to do anything or touch their coins, they just sit around, receive the free money, dump it and get a lot of money out. not to mention that this kills the price but also it is encouraging people to hoard and get profit.

[signup01]

I really want to do bitcoin mining, only here no one teaches and supports. So now I'm only a true bitcoin hunter through bounty. But I didn't give up looking for friends who could teach me to mine bitcoin ... !!

in my opinion, investing in mining requires considerable capital. I don't have that for now. I am following the gift and getting the benefits from IO that I follow.

[franky1]

Perhaps no one has taken the opportunity yet. It was at that level just last month, so your point isn't very convincing. Either way, you're using arbitrary numbers to cherry-pick. Some miners definitely have costs below your arbitrary estimates. Throwing out $5,800 as "the cost to mine a bitcoin" (for the last 10 months?) is totally inaccurate and overgeneralizing. You're just cherry-picking to fit the recent lows on the chart to support your illogical narrative.

Logically, miner costs don't "create a support." Price support implies demand. Whether miners withhold newly mined coins from the market doesn't matter if there is no demand.

this is because of a underlying value created by acquisition cost.

You keep saying that, but there's no evidence to support that idea. It's logically incorrect, since you aren't explaining how demand exists at that price. Mining costs do not create demand from users and investors.

logical:
i do not just pick a price. i look at
price
time tested
dip retests
uxto set of coins moved to support x price
mining costs
which pools are not as market reacters/droppers and which are OTC non market affecting pools
and other things.

i take a bottomline good healthy time period(10 months) that has had a good amount of retests(dips) that has seen more than 50% of coins in circulation move, etc etc
..
miner demand:
if it costs $6600 to mine and some miners who are price reactors. see it costs them 200 days and $6600+ to get 1BTC.. they will realise.. heck why mine. ill just buy coins instantly now, save $200 and 200 days
thus if the price remains below mining costs. miners buy more instead of mine. because its cheaper and faster

[Pursuer]

in the cryptocurrency world, "different" has never meant "better".
so far we have "different" altcoins that are different from bitcoin but that doesn't make them better. and the fact that you made some more money from mining (baking?!) one of them doesn't mean it is a good idea to use it and it certainly doesn't mean that things will remain like this. in fact most coins with a design like this will be declining in value in the long run.

[LightningFury]

I started Bitcoin mining in 2011 with my Radeon HD 6870, the reference card for Bitcoin mining.
I have never mined continuously and finally stopped mining altogether in 2013.
And now I'm a full time baker 24/7/365 and do not hold BTC any more.

[cuteblocks]

It's very interesting to read everyone's thoughts. Thanks for posting!

What I really love about baking is that it can be done on a machine with little power. Ideally on small systems without any fans or moving parts. And one never has to expose any private key because baking can be with a ledger nano s hardware wallet device. It's pretty elegant. Additionally, via delegation, there's no need to bake yourself, you can just delegate your tokens if that is your choice. Sit back and relax. Just thinking about my loud Ethereum mining machine does not feel like a lot of fun in comparison. Not to mention massive datacenters with giant energy demand. There's a place for that, but we should certainly rethink if that is sustainable in the future.

I've always loved mining and participating in these cryptonetworks so if there are ways for me to take part and to mine or bake or stake, then I'm all ears. I really like to earn cryptocurrency
 

[cizatext]

At first is was into mining but due to it high demands I have to look for other alternative now I do more of hodling and fixed it for a target and is call smart trading trying to cut edge when ever the opportunity present it self due to the high volatility of the bitcoin network. So I don't know if I should also call that baking.

[pixie85]

I started Bitcoin mining in 2011 with my Radeon HD 6870, the reference card for Bitcoin mining.
I have never mined continuously and finally stopped mining altogether in 2013.
And now I'm a full time baker 24/7/365 and do not hold BTC any more.

You don't hold BTC? Blasphemy!


I don't mine and I don't bake, but if I were to choose I'd probably choose PoS. I know that PoW is a stronger and safer system but most people can't afford to put a 10kW unit in their apartment. PoW really limits our ability to get involved. To stake you only have to invest some money. To mine you need a suitable location with cheap power and time to watch over the operation.