TAUCoin “Proof of Transaction” - features debate and bounty for 12 months

[imorpheus]

There is one benefits for checkpoint, that is fight against long range attack. With checkpoint consensus, long range attack is avoided. What is your idea?

[zityx23]

checkpoints are necessary for POW especially. in POS they have validators (Again, correct me if Im wrong) but both of these methods  are to secure miners from being drawn into the wrong chain. Work (and electricity cost) and Stake (amounts of coins hoarded) can easily be manipulated somehow, thus double spending is sometimes inevitable.  The need for checkpoints and finality of blockchain is needed to be fast.

If only every block has a checkpoint ( Idk if that is possible) then there is no need for a longer version. If more than 100,000 users starts mobile mining, how will there be a a fork? Temporary fork may appear over time especially when when two valid blocks are received in one node but we also have cumulative difficulty to determine which chain is the "best" chain therefore it would be difficult to tamper with the timestamp. Forks generated by this tampering on the local time to generate a new block, it will be immediately abandoned because of smaller cumulative difficulty (In the white paper)

[imorpheus]

Let me explain more on long range attack. Hackers with initial high number of coins, such as foundation or founders, can start from very beginning of blockchain to rebuild the entire chain using high stack (in POS) or high transaction records (in POT). POW does not have this problem, because of the rebuild entire chain require spend energy twice. Checkpoint is a consensus proposal that once chain grows cerain length, it is considered finality, no one can change anything, unless it is an complete hard fork which require new sets of miners to follow. I believe checkpoint needs to be implemented in tau.
Another idea to discuss today, shall we make time window to be entire history rather than one year.
Entire history with checkpoint will make 51% attack very hard to acheive. Assume tau chain has run one year, 51% attack hackers need to run one year as well to form 51%. If we make it entire history, the longer the chain grow, the harder it is.  Love to know your ideas.

[zityx23]

Let me explain more on long range attack. Hackers with initial high number of coins, such as foundation or founders, can start from very beginning of blockchain to rebuild the entire chain using high stack (in POS) or high transaction records (in POT). POW does not have this problem, because of the rebuild entire chain require spend energy twice. Checkpoint is a consensus proposal that once chain grows cerain length, it is considered finality, no one can change anything, unless it is an complete hard fork which require new sets of miners to follow. I believe checkpoint needs to be implemented in tau.
Another idea to discuss today, shall we make time window to be entire history rather than one year.
Entire history with checkpoint will make 51% attack very hard to acheive. Assume tau chain has run one year, 51% attack hackers need to run one year as well to form 51%. If we make it entire history, the longer the chain grow, the harder it is.  Love to know your ideas.

I agree on this one. It will be difficult for future attacks to take place if there will be a longer chain. An entire history will create a stronger blockchain and any minor misadjustments will be automatically ignored.

If I may ask, why are we not using "blocks" for checkpoint (i.e every 1M block) instead of "one year/entire history" ?
 

[Moeda]

I think there is still a lot that needs to be improved from the Taucoin platform. Among them: The use of a private key wallet has not been functioning, meaning that when we enter a new wallet, we must enter with Facebook or email, cannot use the private key to enter. Secondly, the android application cannot transfer Coin, only serves to receive Coin.

Yes indeed! There are a lot since the team is starting from ground zero. Every suggestion, comment, interruption, and every thing that concerns TAU's community is of great help to the team. I believe they are doing everything they can right now to protect users and provide us with a better functionality. Mobile wallet, mobile mining, main-net, taunopoly... it adds up and yet we are just starting!

Yes, indeed they did the best for their coins and platforms. It's impossible for them to just leave. Moreover, TAUcoin already has its own discussion forum. In this case I think the developer must be able to work extra so that TAUcoin can run according to the roadmap, so that the user's trust will increase.

[imorpheus]

Both POT and POS using on chain info for security, so both are subject to long range and short range attack. However, the magnitude of the attack to both chain are different.
Long range attack could be fixed by setting checkpoint on chain as concensus, then foundation and major players provide snapshot of the chain, so new comers can find the real chain. I think all POS is doing this. I am not worry about it.
The short range attack is serious. It is how difficult to obtain 51%. In POS, when coins price is low, it is in fact easier to get 51%. In POT, when transaction volumn is low and chain is young, it is easier to get 51%. However, if we assume each block just contain fixed number of transactions, the transaction is really the time. So when chain grows older, the difficulty to obtain 51% attack is harder since you need to redo the whole time to get lots of transactions.
We recently removed club implementation is to make the 51% attack harder, this is an trade off. With club, you can easily to sell your power to others. Without clubbuing, the only way to give others power is by giving them private key using for voting on chains. Every few people is willing to giving out private key.

[imorpheus]

New medium article on time accumulation. of course, i found security issue is number 1 for crypto currency...

Proof of transaction to fight 51% attack — 51% attack is unavoidable on decentralized ledger according to Satoshi. What we can do is to make it harder to obtain 51%.
In the Proof of Work, if the super power such as member of G20 wants to secure 51% of computing power, it is possible through investment into factory. In the proof of stake, the stake could be purchased.
I would love to argue the most hard resource to build is “time” rather than equipment and money. In a fixed blocksize blockchain, the transactions are actually time.
Assuming long range attack is contained by checkpoints, once POT blockchain lives 10 years, in order to secure 51% POT power, one need to either secure enough other miner’s private keys to get power or build your own power for 10 years. The older the chain, the harder to achieve due to time can not be created. In POS and POW, the vintage of chain does not contribute enough into security.
TAU focuses on mobile node to make more people able to mine and secure the chain. We recently removed the mining club to make 51% formation harder. For a currency, security is everything. TAU- green, fair and secure.

[imorpheus]

... continue the transaction spam discussion...
in email work, spam is popular because of the cost of sending email is close to zero. in TAU network, the cost of spam transaction is not cost zero, that require transaction fee satisfying miners. making lots of transaction increasing mining power is viewed as action to invest into tau future.
what is your idea?

[imorpheus]

... discussion on speed up ...
Bitcoin lightning network aims to provide fast payment routing and channel. Many bitcoin wallets start to support connect to LN.
TAU coin mobile miner is naturally fitting to provide payment channel on mobile network. so that, pot settlement layer will focus on security, then lightning network can speed up the transactions.

[monsterman]

ok thanks i got some TAUS again

[imorpheus]

are we going to support smart contract? love to hear feedback. pro and cons

[zityx23]

... continue the transaction spam discussion...
in email work, spam is popular because of the cost of sending email is close to zero. in TAU network, the cost of spam transaction is not cost zero, that require transaction fee satisfying miners. making lots of transaction increasing mining power is viewed as action to invest into tau future.
what is your idea?

This is great. POT is great. Transactions generated whether for "real" or "spam" will benefit all miners in the end. More and more miners will capitalize in this project as this does not cost so much "financially" for everyone.

[zityx23]

are we going to support smart contract? love to hear feedback. pro and cons

There are just a few pros and cons for this one but i would like to state the obvious.

Pros:     a. security - since it is run on blockchain, it will not be lost or changed without permission
             b.  economy and speed. - almost automatic
             c. standardization - many smart contracts classification.

Cons:     a. cost -  need a programmer esp one trained in fool proof blockchain technology
            b. legality - there is a potential issue for this in the future
             c. human error. - programmers who "unknowingly" create mistakes might compromise the whole system.

[zityx23]

are we going to support smart contract? love to hear feedback. pro and cons

Let's go for it. I also want to suggest that we have a "2nd layer blockchain",..  same protocols just not on a different blockchain. To ease traffic and congestion in the future transaction. Not that TAU's blockchain is inefficient but we need to back it up Justa thought..

ANyway, smart contracts are great deal to increase usage as well.. Governments/community/businessess can use tau in any level with smart contracts.

[imorpheus]

so why not just using smart contract in side chain? shall tau main net settlement layer support smart contract at all? UTXO is not able to support Turing complete smart contract. TAU is using utxo now.

[zityx23]

so why not just using smart contract in side chain? shall tau main net settlement layer support smart contract at all? UTXO is not able to support Turing complete smart contract. TAU is using utxo now.

I think it is already great that we have utxo now and it might be a lot of trouble if we consider "again" in terms of smart contract. If in the future someone wants to create apps/program using taucoin, they can just do so, create another coin using taucoin as base coin. In the simplest way possible, taucoin can provide greater benefits and usage for all even with or without smart contracts. As I've said earlier, a second-layer platform is possible if devs really will push through but for the meantime let's keep it this simple. Just in my humble opinion.

[imorpheus]

I love the feedback on keeping us focused and simple as basic coin settlement layer.

A key decision is made and very bold. "reduce the block size to 10kb" aims to support massive decentralized mobile nodes mining.
Peer to peer communication among millions of mobile devices require smaller block size. This is to increase data availability, resulting to provide high security. we believe security is upmost importance, given the recent BCH 51% attack show. We adjust our spirit to "light and secure". this puts us in a very unique position comparing to other coins increasing block size, which will cause centralization, due to less nodes have full capture of blocks on time. The reason for 10kb is average ethereum block is 50kb. As an experimental currency, we want to start with high security, 10kb makes us look not sexy, but 10kb blocks size in a pure mobile environment is very cool.
what is your feedback?

[imorpheus]

10kb per minute on settlement layer is new but good for decentralization. The triangle, "decentralizing, consistent and scale", we would choose first two and trade off scaling. the future world in my imaging will be major application such as search engine, social and commerce running on dPOS semi-decentral consensus to gain scaling. TAU could use side-chain to settle with dPOS tokens to gain speed and other features. 10KB per minute is possible to gain millions of miners to join. so does crypto currency need millions of miner to protect it? or just less than 100 miners can hold the trust of the world?

I would argue:
1. BTC: 70% consistent, 20% decentralized, 10% scale
2. dPOS: 50% scale, 40% consistent, 10% decentral
3. TAU: 70% decentral, 20% consistent, 10% scale.

[imorpheus]

dPOS can do high volume big blocks in short time, that is why they are better for dAPP to operate. settlement layer require decentralized participation, tau is more focus on the "decentralized" part of the tri-angle.
it is complicated to debate how many miners are enough, i do not know either, how many TV channels do we really need? 8, 100 or a million?

Giving up high volume transaction numbers on main net is a big bet. Most of startup project dares not do that, but Satoshi did it through bitcoin in return for consensus. One blockchain to satisfy all DCS (decentralized, consensus and scaling) is impossible, there is math proof on that. One ecosystem of block chains can do that. Assume there is an ecosystem in the future, all we need to do is to pick up a position. TAUcoin picks up "decentralization" and consensus, which force us to run mobile mining and 10kb block size, no high volume as result.

I personally do like dPOS for application say social, commerce and search engine. dPOS needs great enterpreneur to build venture to fight current giants. I do hope steem can win, but it seems their product is loosing traffic and founding team is gone.

[imorpheus]

quote: While he (BM) only gave people some vague information about how this new hypothetical token would be, he described it as something that would be immutable, limited to the role of being a proper digital currency and non-programmable.

Dan Larimer finally decided to do a currency rather than a global computer. that is why learned $4B paid by the community. Tau is targeting to be currency only from day one. i am glad we are on right track.
Now POW is volatile, POS-eth might never come out, dPOS is consider not a blockchain and tested by Whiteblock to report it is not much faster than eth, POT is one the way to the future...