Albert Einstein Letter Calling God a “Product of Human Weakness” is Up for Sale

[Moloch]

Albert Einstein Letter Calling God a “Product of Human Weakness” is Up for Sale
http://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2018/10/04/albert-einstein-letter-calling-god-a-product-of-human-weakness-is-up-for-sale/

A letter in which theoretical physicist Albert Einstein called God a “product of human weakness” and the Bible merely a collection of “primitive legends” is being auctioned off, and it’s expected to bring in between $1 million and $1.5 million.

The letter, which was written in 1955 (a year before Einstein’s death), is being sold by Christie’s in New York later this year. In it, the scientist who developed the theory of relativity demeans God and religion but stops short of calling himself an atheist.

    “The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends,” the letter reads. “No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change anything about this.”

    Einstein wrote the letter to Eric Gutkind in response to the philosopher’s book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt. It is the believed to be the most revealing insight into Einstein’s religious beliefs. Einstein, whose theory of general relativity is still one of the pillars of modern physics, had a Jewish background. He did not believe in God but also did not describe himself as an atheist. He served on the advisory board of the First Humanist Society of New York.

In the famous letter, Einstein both rejected the veracity of the Jewish religion and embraced the Jewish culture.

    In Einstein’s letter to Gutkind, he tells the philosopher how alike they are in their thinking — especially in what he calls their “un-American attitude.”

    He talks of the Jewish religion being “like all other religions” in that it is “an incarnation of primitive superstition.” However, he goes on: “And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong, and in whose mentality I feel profoundly anchored, still for me do not have any different kind of dignity from all other peoples. As far as my experience goes, they are in fact no better than other human groups, even if they are protected from the worst excesses by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot perceive anything ‘chosen’ about them.”

This isn’t the only time Einstein has critiqued religion and referenced his own lack thereof. Despite his discussions about “God” in a mathematical, philosophical sense, he was often quite devout in disbelief (but not so much that he ever used the “atheist” label).

    In a different letter, written around a decade earlier, he wrote: “I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist. … I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”

Einstein will perhaps forever be used by religious apologists who want to convince people it’s “smart” to believe in “God,” but the fact is he would reject the modern notion of the religious deity we see around the world today. This letter is yet another reminder of that.

There you have it... from the man himself... Einstein did not believe in god or any religion... Einstein was, by definition, an atheist

For what it's worth, Einstein was also a Socialist, and vehemently anti-capitalist... but that is another topic

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[af_newbie]

with jews you lose

Say what?  What does the fact that his parents were born into Jewish religion have anything to do with what the man accomplished?

You are full of it.  Without people like him humans would still be sitting in cold, dark caves licking their wounds, hoping for sun God to give them light and warmth.

[BADecker]

Saint Paul talked about this long ago, in 2 Timothy 4:3 where he wrote: "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

[angel55]

I don't want to derail this thread too much but it's clear that highly intelligent individuals know that socialism is a superior system to capitalism.  Capitalism takes the excess wealth that is created by workers and gives it to the owners who do nothing.  Capitalism is self destructive and we are already seeing the effects of it.

[bluefirecorp_]

I don't want to derail this thread too much but it's clear that highly intelligent individuals know that socialism is a superior system to capitalism.  Capitalism takes the excess wealth that is created by workers and gives it to the owners who do nothing.  Capitalism is self destructive and we are already seeing the effects of it.

The problem, nearly a hundred years ago, was logistics of resource distribution. The average human didn't have instantaneous communication.

We had no way to monitor resources to get a real time accurate inventory for centralized pooling of resources to distribute.

Simply put; socialism back then would have slowed down progress in many areas.

Overall, Einstein was absolutely brilliant, and I agree with him that socialism is the best form of industry.

[dippididodaday]

Saint Paul talked about this long ago, in 2 Timothy 4:3 where he wrote: "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

The Apostle Paul writes in his letter to Timothy [1 Timothy 5:18] the following: For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox treading out grain," and, "The workman is worthy of his wages."

Ellicott's Commentary goes on to explain: The idea in the Apostle's mind, when he quoted the words of Moses, was: If, in the well-known and loved law of Israel, there was a special reminder to God's people that the very animals that laboured for them were not to be prevented from enjoying the fruits of their labours, surely men who with zeal and earnestness devoted themselves as God's servants to their fellows, should be treated with all liberality, and even dignified with especial respect and honour.

[DireWolfM14]

I don't want to derail this thread too much

Too late, beside the OP mentioned AE's preference for socialism, so it's really not that off topic.

but it's clear that highly intelligent individuals know that socialism is a superior system to capitalism.  Capitalism takes the excess wealth that is created by workers and gives it to the owners who do nothing.  Capitalism is self destructive and we are already seeing the effects of it.

Name one socialist country that has prospered, or provided prosperity for their citizens.  Just one.


Back to the original topic;  Not all scientists are atheists.  Many are capable of reconciling their research with their faith.  Personally, I'm an agnostic, so I really don't have a god in the fight.

[KingScorpio]

Name one socialist country that has prospered, or provided prosperity for their citizens.  Just one.

actually all of them you are not aware what was before that:

1. you compare socialist russia with zarist russia

2. you compare chinese china with emperial china

3. you compare socialist south america with colonised south america (check live conditions of the slaves in that time)

4. you compare socialist india with castic india (untouchables, but remember here is a population explosion happening)


you have to understand not all global banking cartels can have their currencies backed by middle eastern oil like the US dollar is doing that. so claiming the usa is a good example for capitalism is wrong,

its a bad one, and it will be more clearer that it is a bad one if you will observe the decentralisation of the american economy

all americans will try to abuse their next as money earning cattle because they will all become "kapitalists"

[af_newbie]

I don't want to derail this thread too much but it's clear that highly intelligent individuals know that socialism is a superior system to capitalism.  Capitalism takes the excess wealth that is created by workers and gives it to the owners who do nothing.  Capitalism is self destructive and we are already seeing the effects of it.

The problem, nearly a hundred years ago, was logistics of resource distribution. The average human didn't have instantaneous communication.

We had no way to monitor resources to get a real time accurate inventory for centralized pooling of resources to distribute.

Simply put; socialism back then would have slowed down progress in many areas.

Overall, Einstein was absolutely brilliant, and I agree with him that socialism is the best form of industry.

Socialism is very demotivating.  It assumes that we are all equal and tries to distribute the outcomes.  It demotivates the most productive members of the society and in a long-run it leads to the economic collapse.

Capitalism is cruel, unfair, unjust, outright criminal in some cases, but it is a system that best resembles our human nature.
Greed is a great motivator.  Best products are developed in capitalist societies.

We are all different, some of us are smarter than others, more hard working than others, better looking than others and are rewarded accordingly.

[xhomerx10]

I don't want to derail this thread too much but it's clear that highly intelligent individuals know that socialism is a superior system to capitalism.  Capitalism takes the excess wealth that is created by workers and gives it to the owners who do nothing.  Capitalism is self destructive and we are already seeing the effects of it.

 Well, how ironic then that one of the most intelligent human's hand-written letters is going to be auctioned off for more money than any proletariat could ever afford.

[harry_crypto]

Many great ones in history have not been too kind on the word of the Good Book. Communities interested in discussing the potential merit of the bible as literature form a strong basis for much secular reading of the work however, and would could benefit from organizational tools like EVT.

[swiftapp]

I don't want to derail this thread too much but it's clear that highly intelligent individuals know that socialism is a superior system to capitalism.  Capitalism takes the excess wealth that is created by workers and gives it to the owners who do nothing.  Capitalism is self destructive and we are already seeing the effects of it.

It is posts like this that makes me think there should be punishments for being an idiot. Thanks for your two sentences worth of research.

[Moloch]

Name one socialist country that has prospered, or provided prosperity for their citizens.  Just one.

Let me google that for you! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=top+socialist+countries)

First result is this:
Top 10 Most Socialist Countries in the World
http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/

   China
    Denmark
    Finland
    Netherlands
    Canada
    Sweden
    Norway
    Ireland
    New Zealand
    Belgium

I'm guessing you have heard of a few of these countries? (you only asked for 1 and I gave you 10... sorry, not sorry)

I hear all of them are doing quite well economically, and socially... for example, if you google "happiest countries in the world", you get a very similar list:

The top countries frequently have high values for all six of the key variables that contribute to overall well-being: income (GDP per capita), healthy life expectancy, social support, freedom, trust (absence of corruption) and generosity.

Here are the top 10 happiest countries and how they measure on the Cantril ladder:

1. Finland: 7.632
2. Norway: 7.594
3. Denmark: 7.555
4. Iceland: 7.495
5. Switzerland: 7.487
6. Netherlands: 7.441
7. Canada: 7.328
8. New Zealand: 7.324
9. Sweden: 7.314
10. Australia: 7.272

Kinda neat how 70% of them make it into both top-10 lists, eh?  (also note, USA did not make it into the top-10)

[swiftapp]

Name one socialist country that has prospered, or provided prosperity for their citizens.  Just one.

Let me google that for you! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=top+socialist+countries)

First result is this:
Top 10 Most Socialist Countries in the World
http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/

   China
    Denmark
    Finland
    Netherlands
    Canada
    Sweden
    Norway
    Ireland
    New Zealand
    Belgium

I'm guessing you have heard of a few of these countries? (you only asked for 1 and I gave you 10... sorry, not sorry)

I hear all of them are doing quite well economically, and socially... for example, if you google "happiest countries in the world", you get a very similar list:

m/2018/03/16/these-are-the-top-10-happiest-countries-in-the-world.html]
The top countries frequently have high values for all six of the key variables that contribute to overall well-being: income (GDP per capita), healthy life expectancy, social support, freedom, trust (absence of corruption) and generosity.

Here are the top 10 happiest countries and how they measure on the Cantril ladder:

1. Finland: 7.632
2. Norway: 7.594
3. Denmark: 7.555
4. Iceland: 7.495
5. Switzerland: 7.487
6. Netherlands: 7.441
7. Canada: 7.328
8. New Zealand: 7.324
9. Sweden: 7.314
10. Australia: 7.272

Kinda neat how 70% of them make it into both top-10 lists, eh?  (also note, USA did not make it into the top-10)

Your idea structuring is incoherent and your fundamental goal is easily misunderstood when so much detail is lacking.

Sure, socialism has positive implications as a tool when properly used. Does that mean one constantly refers to it as the solution every time? No. I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for people to understand. Most of those countries had a wonderful history of low corruption, lacking institutions at the educational level that are nothing more than terrorist organizations like Harvard University, and strong ethnic nationalism.

For some reason the older age collection of degenerate political gnomes, that don't really know anything about anything, think they can do what they want now, obstructing necessary fundamental laws of society. If you have enough idiots trying to pre-structure an outcome its highly possible that it will look like it worked.

Not intended as a comment towards you, but it's sad that so many people want to step up to the political economy plate who are just trash in the field.

[DireWolfM14]

Kinda neat how 70% of them make it into both top-10 lists, eh?  (also note, USA did not make it into the top-10)

ROFLOL, Countries with high taxes and lots of social programs are not SOCIALIST.  You obviously don't know what socialism is.  Try again.  

[Moloch]

Kinda neat how 70% of them make it into both top-10 lists, eh?  (also note, USA did not make it into the top-10)

ROFLOL, Countries with high taxes and lots of social programs are not SOCIALIST.  You obviously don't know what socialism is.  Try again.  

Praytell, what is socialism then?  Don't say I'm wrong without providing "correct" information for me, that's just rude (not that I even made a claim about socialism, I simply googled it)

It's not even "my" list... do you need me to google this for you AGAIN?!?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=top+socialist+countries

[af_newbie]

Kinda neat how 70% of them make it into both top-10 lists, eh?  (also note, USA did not make it into the top-10)

ROFLOL, Countries with high taxes and lots of social programs are not SOCIALIST.  You obviously don't know what socialism is.  Try again.  

Praytell, what is socialism then?  Don't say I'm wrong without providing "correct" information for me, that's just rude (not that I even made a claim about socialism, I simply googled it)

It's not even "my" list... do you need me to google this for you AGAIN?!?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=top+socialist+countries

Let me try.  Socialism is a social structure where the means of production and its distribution is controlled by all members of that structure.

A capitalist system with lots of social programs is not a socialist system.  In the countries on your list, people do not decide how the economic system is run.  Capitalists do that.  

Equality of outcomes for the 99% does not make the system a socialist system.  Capitalists still run and control such systems.

[DireWolfM14]

Kinda neat how 70% of them make it into both top-10 lists, eh?  (also note, USA did not make it into the top-10)

ROFLOL, Countries with high taxes and lots of social programs are not SOCIALIST.  You obviously don't know what socialism is.  Try again.  

Praytell, what is socialism then?  Don't say I'm wrong without providing "correct" information for me, that's just rude (not that I even made a claim about socialism, I simply googled it)

It's not even "my" list... do you need me to google this for you AGAIN?!?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=top+socialist+countries

Let me try.  Socialism is a social structure where the means of production and its distribution is controlled by all members of that structure.

A capitalist system with lots of social programs is not a socialist system.  In the countries on your list, people do not decide how the economic system is run.  Capitalists do that.  

Equality of outcomes for the 99% does not make the system a socialist system.  Capitalists still run and control such systems.

@af_newbie, Well put.  Thanks for responding for me.

@Moloch, here's a hint on how to make the determination:  If a country has one or more corporations based within it's boarders that is not under complete control of the government, it ain't socialist.

[Moloch]

Kinda neat how 70% of them make it into both top-10 lists, eh?  (also note, USA did not make it into the top-10)

ROFLOL, Countries with high taxes and lots of social programs are not SOCIALIST.  You obviously don't know what socialism is.  Try again.  

Praytell, what is socialism then?  Don't say I'm wrong without providing "correct" information for me, that's just rude (not that I even made a claim about socialism, I simply googled it)

It's not even "my" list... do you need me to google this for you AGAIN?!?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=top+socialist+countries

Let me try.  Socialism is a social structure where the means of production and its distribution is controlled by all members of that structure.

A capitalist system with lots of social programs is not a socialist system.  In the countries on your list, people do not decide how the economic system is run.  Capitalists do that.  

Equality of outcomes for the 99% does not make the system a socialist system.  Capitalists still run and control such systems.

@af_newbie, Well put.  Thanks for responding for me.

@Moloch, here's a hint on how to make the determination:  If a country has one or more corporations based within it's boarders that is not under complete control of the government, it ain't socialist.

I suppose, like everything, different people define things differently... the top google result listed those countries as socialist, so I assume that is the majority opinion (unless you think google is some sort of liberal conspiracy)

Perhaps people are including democratic-socialism under the umbrella of "socialism"... I really have no idea, nor do I care to be honest

It is what it is... all I did was google it for you

[DireWolfM14]

I really have no idea

Maybe you should have an idea, and a thought or two, before blindly following something you don't understand.

nor do I care to be honest

You'll make a perfect socialist.  Honesty is the bane of socialism, so of course you don't care to be honest.