incredible as it may seem...........

[Piskeante]

ETH is NOT PROFITABLE AT THE MOMENT, but still has 248.000 gh/s of total network hashrate at the moment.

Are people stupid or what???

Lets put numbers to the question.

2 rigs with 12 gpus well optimezed (RX 580 and RX 570) doing 31,3 average mh/s, is doing around 376 mh/s. those rigs are using around 1800w from the wall. The average price in USA is around 0,14$/kWh. In Spain, my country, is around 0.16$/kWh

With these numbers, - 1% for pool fee - 1% miner fee, you get around -10$ per month. So you lose money. But that's considering you SELL your coins to pay the electricity, which in many many cases you´ll not do. So you are paying something around from 480 to 520$ per month to hold your ETH AT A CLEAR LOSS.


Are this people doing this actually dumb??? Do they realise they are expending a lot of money on a gumble that can go terribly wrong?? do this people believe blindly on crypto sooooo much to actually invest a huge amount of money to win probably nothing??? why are this people doing this?


Or is it that that hashrate is probably 70% ASIC?? The E3 can do 190mh/s and use around 760W from the wall. at 0,14$/kWh is making just 10$ a month. Is it worth??? You are still having to sell your coins to pay the bill just to get in your pocket 10$. So E3 users still believe , LIKE GPU MINERS, that ETH is going to be pumped in price, with no reason, fact, technical analysis or whatever shitty argument you can say to belive that. Are people blindly believing in this market, burning out hundreds of millions of dollars in electricity for no instant profit??? WTF is this nonsense???



Now, if you have free electricity or solar electricity, with an E3 you are making 86$ a month per machine. if the price is actually in 1160$, that's not a good idea, because you´ll need a lot of time to even ROI, and that is considering you are selling your coins. If not, than you are investing a good amount of money on no profit but a future profit to come which is bound NOT TO HAPPEN.


I just don't understand. Numbers talk clearly. You have to have free electricity and ASICS to see green money in your pocket , which i'm sure the amount of people mining with free electricity is very small. Very very small.

So the conclusion is: how many of those 248.000Gh/s is mining ETH at a loss??? THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM.

And that's not even considering the fork that MAY happen in october by reducing 3 ETH per block to 2.


i stopped my machines like 4 months ago. I've calculated how much money i've saved and how much money i would have won if i had been mining ETH.

Numbers show , for me, that mining was a no go since the result is terribly RED FOR ME.


I don't understand this madness. everyday , instead of having less hashrate, IT'S INCREASING!!!!!!!

[NeuroticFish]

I don't understand this madness. everyday , instead of having less hashrate, IT'S INCREASING!!!!!!!

What may be missing from your calculation:
1. Some pay 0.06 EUR/kWh for electricity, some maybe even less (solar power, China farms near the dams, ..). They are not that many examples, but may start to add up.
2. Some don't pay for the electricity. Their parents do (yes, this is one magnific #fail, I know), their company does (until they get kicked out), their landlord does (until he finds out) and so on.
3. Some claim to be hobby miners and don't care if they lose some bucks.
4. A lot of people don't inform themselves. They don't work on a budget. They pay for electricity from one pocket and get the coins into another. They will tell that Ethereum will rise anyway and they don't know/understand/figure out that they could just buy cheaper than they are mining.
5. Some are already on positive balance since they are mining for long and don't care if now, for a while, they mine at a loss. Here it depends how long this while will last.

OK. Now more of the gaps are filled.

[laineux]

6. and some had invested a lot in rigs, power supply, contracts, workshops. If they don't run it all, they loose more money.
7. winter is coming. (I run some rigs to heat the whole house)

[mocacinno]

6. and some had invested a lot in rigs, power supply, contracts, workshops. If they don't run it all, they loose more money.
7. winter is coming. (I run some rigs to heat the whole house)

You raise a good point, but i don't think i fully agree...
6) Even if you invested a lot, it wouldn't make sense to keep on mining if the amount of ETH you mined (converted to FIAT) is less than the power bill...
What WOULD make sense for these people is to keep on mining even if they knew they'd never ROI (get their investment back) as long as the net income of the mining operation was higher than the power bill..

7) I actually tought exactly the same way a long while ago... However, i have since changed my mind... Sure, you recuperate part of the electricity cost incurred by mining by saving some gas, petrol, wood, electricity,... you would have used to heat your house... HOWEVER, in my own country, the electricity price is currently over €0.25/Kwh. I currently heat my house with oil, and eventough the oil is much more expensive than it used to be 15 years ago, it's still a lot more efficient than heating my house with electricity.
If the mining "profit" is only marginally lower than the power bill, it might be a good idear to use a miner to heat your house, but if the "profit" is much lower than the cost, i doubt the amount of oil i saved by heating my house with an ASIC will be proportional to the loss i make by mining.
I haven't done the full calculations tough, i guess the cutoff point would be different for allmost everybody...

Next to this, most ASIC's are loud, sometimes they're a fire hazard, they might emit toxic fumes, they emit some light (trough their control leds) and ideally they have to run 24/7 (while my heating is only on when my wife and kid are home)

[laineux]

6. and some had invested a lot in rigs, power supply, contracts, workshops. If they don't run it all, they loose more money.
7. winter is coming. (I run some rigs to heat the whole house)

You raise a good point, but i don't think i fully agree...
6) Even if you invested a lot, it wouldn't make sense to keep on mining if the amount of ETH you mined (converted to FIAT) is less than the power bill...
What WOULD make sense for these people is to keep on mining even if they knew they'd never ROI (get their investment back) as long as the net income of the mining operation was highere than the power bill..

I suppose some big miners signed power contracts to get best price. They must consume it or pay penalties.
Same issue with heating or hiring contracts.
Many other elements than price and rentabilty come into play

[mocacinno]

I suppose some big miners signed power contracts to get best price. They must consume it or pay penalties.
Same issue with heating or hiring contracts.
Many other elements than price and rentabilty come into play

Sure, if you have a contract, you might aswell use the power you've already payed for... Altough i'd probably try to switch my mining operation to a more profitable algo within the bounds of my current contract if i was the miner.

I addressed the issue of heating in the remainder of my previous post (i was still editing it while you quoted me )

[Lunga Chung]

As you can see by the pool stats most of miners are in EU or CN, think USA is participating less then 1/4 of total hash rate.

I have accommodated couple of clients from US in our EU data center, so don't neglect the fact that some percentage of miners migrated to more  cost effective environment.

[smoolae]

There are people/companies out there in the wide world who really pay like 0.05usd/kWh or even get the electricity for free. You cannot really make this statement that mining isn't profitable - it still is, but the place matters where it takes place.

[Helix91]

Or maybe... there is some kind of new tech. Out there what makes mining eth profitable. We have asic (as u know, they’re not profitable) FPGAs, maybe there’s something new. Because i was in shock to, why would someone go into mining it, if it’s not profitable, so yeah there must be some information out there what we don’t know ir it isn’t shared

[MP_SI]

Maby they belive the price will go UP and they cant buy it dirrectly with fiat - becouse they are grounded

[angel55]

As stated before, a lot of people are mining with free electricity.  They either have solar, government subsidized electricity, or they are stealing it from office buildings/schools. 

Eth has a strong community and everyone knows the price will go back up so they are willing to mine on small margins and just hold.

[melpheos]

My rigs is making 1.2ETC a day for 2500w (around 800Mh/s) @ .1525cent/h so i'm still in the green for more than 4$...
It's definitely bad (current ROI 3 years  as i still have my current wallets in various crypto and i bought a BCU1525 with my profits) but i have still room before everything goes kaput...

[lunobird]

Or there is secret very efficient miners being tested.

But the main point is mining is for straight up Losers!

Buy the coin if you want lambo money. Or mine it and buy a bycicle in the next 10x bull run.

Those that bought it last year for $7 dollars got lambos.and houses.  Those that spent 20gs on mining equipment mined only Enough to buy a bycicle and have AMD equipment that dropped in value by 75 percent.

[Keres]

you can't look at it from your stand point, lots of countries have accesses to cheap electricity and now that there's ASICS those people, in those contries are making a fortune even if the Difficulty is this high

my rigs for an example made ROI months ago, today they earn very small amount each month, but it's still higher than the Power bill, so i'll keep on mining,

[fanatic26_]

You need to look at things through the eyes of a businessman and not some chump at home who bought a few rigs when prices were high and thought he was going to get rich.

NEWS FLASH: Mining is not for the home user anymore, it is the domain of commercial entities

The bull run of last year caused many people to jump into the space and start building out farms/datacenters. Just because the prices dropped back down to more realistic levels does not mean you abandon your entire business plan. You continue building and mining in hopes of surviving until the next big price run and thats where you make your fortune. You dont just cancel a project half way and lose millions of dollars because you dont think you are making 'enough' profit.

You dont need to blame secret ASICs or any other garbage like that, its just simple economics.

[chrisbfrpky]

With Asic miners in the picture, it was only a matter of time before GPU mining was a complete loss. Ebay is overflowing with used cards now and the prices aren't getting any higher. Sell before the block reward reduction comes or you may end up with a set of GPU paperweights or door-stoppers that used to be worth something. Best route to continue mining ETH would be to purchase a large solar system (20KW+ in panels) and asics. Chris B.

[ThePunisher49X]

Some people believe Ethereum price will rise back to late 2017 levels again and continue mining because of this belief.
So it is up to them to spend more then what they are getting now in actual amounts at current price.

It is a type of fictional euphoria to them in allowing their current mining systems to continue to run while at a loss.
It is their money not yours so they can do what they want with themselves.

[lunobird]

Some people believe Ethereum price will rise back to late 2017 levels again and continue mining because of this belief.
So it is up to them to spend more then what they are getting now in actual amounts at current price.

It is a type of fictional euphoria to them in allowing their current mining systems to continue to run while at a loss.
It is their money not yours so they can do what they want with themselves.

I dont believe people will spend $5 dollars of electric to get $3 dollars worth of coins when you can just buy on exchange and get the the full $5 dollars worth of coins.

I think we need to stop that assumption.

[xxcsu]

ETH is NOT PROFITABLE AT THE MOMENT, but still has 248.000 gh/s of total network hashrate at the moment.

Are people stupid or what???

Lets put numbers to the question.

NO IM NOT STUPID , AND LETS MAKE SOME PROVE WITH MY NUMBERS

In my case its still worth mining, as all of the money i invested into mining rigs are back to my packet already.
Im not one of those guys who jumped into mining when bitcoin price hit 20000$ and wanted to get rich within a few months.

I always warned new members, members who opened topics like : "ITS TO LATE TO START MINING , IT IS STILL PROFITABLE ? WHY MY EARNING IS LESS THAN ALL THOSE ONLINE CALCULATORS TELLING ME? WHAT IS THE BEST COIN TO MINE ? WHAT IS THE MOST PROFITABLE COIN TO MINE" mining is a risky investment and no one can tell you whats coming tomorrow. After last year BTC and all other crypto coin price jump, ppl just started buying gpus like kids taking chocolate from the grocery shop shelves
You can read my "warning or i would say advice topic " here

Let see a example why its still worth mining for me  :

ETH11 as you can see on the attached picture hashing with 375MH/s , pulling 1590watts at the wall, im paying 0.097$/kWh
after pool fees ,miner fees,  power bill im still making around 80$ extra a months with current eth/usd exchange rate.
So its worth mining for me ? Definitely YES !
If ETH11 will generating only 20$ / months its still worth mining for me ? Definitely YES !
Why im saying YES ?
Because my rigs are paid out already, and if i can have 20$ extra a months for nothing,  im still happy, but i have way more than 1 mining rig, so thats  going to be multiple times 20$ a months. With current price its still multiple times 80$ a months, or multiple times 40$ a months with a smaller builts ( 6-7-8 cards per rigs )

Miner reported hashrate:




Pool side reported hashrate :
( yes with the right bios mod , with the right undervolting/overclocking your miner reported hashrate should be the same as a pool side reported average hashrate. if its not the same, you definitely have some issues



Power Draw:
( measured with cyberpower PDU81007 Switched Metered-by-Outlet PDU  )




To a much easier understanding I placed all of my information into one online calculator ,dont forget online calculators are not always 100% accurate .

[antantti]

You guys need to think big.

If you want to get 1M ether, what is the cheapest way? Mining or buying?

If you want to be sure network will not be compromised? And you are loaded with cash after selling at the top?

Just some food for thought.