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Author Topic: Is this not really paid bumping and encourage for spamming ?  (Read 424 times)
Coolcryptovator
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October 05, 2018, 09:07:33 PM
 #1

Thread link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3146610.0
Archived: http://archive.is/PH3ty

They are offering bonus for reply on the thread which is not related with forum.




Is this not paid bumping really ? or is this not encourage for spamming ? The thread has made long time ago. I am not sure why the thread are not trash. According to theymos, this is against of rules.

Specifically, you are not allowed to give people any incentive to post insubstantial posts in your threads. You can't offer to pay people who post their addresses, usernames, etc. You can do giveaways off-site and link to the giveaway page in a thread, but you can't give people any bonus for replying to your thread.





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October 05, 2018, 09:27:34 PM
 #2

I feel like with the current lack of moderation going on here, that rule seems to have slipped through the net.
Most people with insubstantial posts, however, if reported do get deleted in quite a timely fashion (within a few hours) so we just have to hope that the bounty manages don't spot it before the mods do...

Offering an incentive to post in a particular thread is obviously going to turn that thread to trash immediately...

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October 05, 2018, 09:35:18 PM
 #3

They are offering bonus for reply on the thread which is not related with forum.
As I could see they are not paying for posting on their ann thread. They are paying for surf. On the thread they are taking proof who are the owner of the surf.

You can do giveaways off-site and link to the giveaway page in a thread, but you can't give people any bonus for replying to your thread.
I think it will be clear if you can see it once again. If yet it is really paying for bumping ann thread once system or moderator or admin  would be able to see will lock the thread and ban all the participants.

Am I spamming? Report me!
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October 05, 2018, 10:32:33 PM
 #4

Seems like a bit of a grey area. If I understand it right they are rewarding them on their platform, using the usernames from their site (not the forums) I'm guessing it tracks the 30 ads there. This would be the part that may be considered against the rules.

As for the second part it is a giveaway of sorts, not everyone receives a reward. This is also done off-site, but requires the entry here.

My guess would be that if it's permitted it has something to do with it being in games and rounds as opposed to say Altcoin announcements or say a service announcement.

Dug a few posts in and I see this:

*snip*

You have to move the following, to your website instead (perhaps a special section for it):

  • -  Surf At least 30 Ads everyday and post your username here, We will give 100 Satoshi Bonus in your balance
  • -  Post about your daily earnings here, 1 user will randomly get 1000 Satoshi In their balance

Their response was this:

Hey SFR10,
*snip*
Quote
Specifically, you are not allowed to give people any incentive to post insubstantial posts in your threads. You can't offer to pay people who post their addresses, usernames, etc. You can do giveaways off-site and link to the giveaway page in a thread, but you can't give people any bonus for replying to your thread.

The incentive is not given for posting anything. Incentive is given for participating in site and confirming it here. We are just promoting our site activities, not bitcointalk activities. I hope it clears.


Best regards.

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May 01, 2020, 08:41:03 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4), Naster (3)
 #5

Hello,

Well Finally I saw this topic. I never had time to look this topic.

First of all, I am really sorry if it was against the rule. I was very new to Bitcointalk forum and only posted our project and my intention were not to flood the forum, instead user engagement of our own site.

And use the forum board to track their records, as website were new back then.

With Respect, But now back to point, Is it really fair to get a Negative trust badge just for this mistake?  @Coolcryptovator

Since I thought Trust Feedback system is solely for trade purpose. Which I never did and Never directly or indirectly harm anyone here.

Let me know where I can learn more. looking forward.

Best regards


Edit:  I meant how fair it is to mark me as scammer? In the starting of my topic. I am expecting our senior members view on this.

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May 01, 2020, 09:32:05 PM
 #6

It should be forgiven, mistakes happen to everyone. It's not a big issue especially if it's fixed quickly.
Otherwise, half of the forum members could be red-tagged (for necroposting, not posting in the right board, etc)
People are rude without reason sometimes

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May 01, 2020, 09:58:42 PM
 #7

It should be forgiven, mistakes happen to everyone. It's not a big issue especially if it's fixed quickly.
Otherwise, half of the forum members could be red-tagged (for necroposting, not posting in the right board, etc)
People are rude without reason sometimes

Thank you very much for considering. Yes I am accepting again, it was my fault not to read every forum rules and regulation before proceeding with my  thread/ topics.

I will be careful from next time.

But whats bothering me is, How can someone Red flag a profile just for Starting forum topics without knowing one of the forum rules. Does that make him a scammer?
I meant , Please see, When we go to trust page and try to select

( Negative - You think that trading with this person is high-risk. You might also be able to add a flag.  ) - It is also clearly written there if you think trading with this person is high-risk mark him negative.

I meant how can trading with me becomes risky? if I never had a single deal in this forum?
How can trading with me becomes risky? if I just did one fault of not following forum rules and regulation

Again thank you everyone for considering the incident. I hope to become an active member here in the community by following all the rules and regulations

regards
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May 01, 2020, 10:17:55 PM
Last edit: May 04, 2020, 11:27:29 AM by Upgrade00
 #8

We've had cases of gambling sites crediting accounts on their websites for users to play games with and leave a review here on the forum with no fuss being raised about it, this case roughly falls in that area.
It could very well have been an attempt to generate activity on their thread and promote their project, but the forum rules are not explicitly against their activity, so I would rather not use the trust rating in this scenario.

IINM, that should be fine for Bitcoin-focused casinos or faucets. If it's altcoins, then it's a bannable offense. Just like the recent giveaway thread which caused several Legendaries to inadvertently take the banhammer.
I agree, but in both cases, the trust system should not be applied. Forum offences are handled by the moderators.





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May 02, 2020, 09:19:26 AM
 #9

We've had cases of gambling sites crediting accounts on their websites for users to play games with and leave a review here on the forum with no fuss being raised about it, this case roughly falls in that area.
It could very well have been an attempt to generate activity on their thread and promote their project, but the forum rules are not explicitly against their activity, so I would rather not use the trust rating in this scenario.

Thank you for considering my case and take your time to read this conversation. I am really glad that we have many sensible Forum Senior members as well.

Well I just wanted to bring out this thread, According to @LoyceV  's thread of Correct use of the Trust system

It is clearly mentioned that

Do's and Don'ts
Don't leave negative feedback when someone violates the forum rules. Instead, use Report to moderator for rule violations.

I am really surprised that, Sometimes rules only meant for Newbie member like us. But not for everyone.

Again I agree that The system I adopted to promote our program was not very standard. It would lead in a lot of Junk post.
But again, Was it really necessary to Add a Negative trust in my Profile just because I was trying to promote some project in a non standard way?

Where can we learn more about this?
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May 02, 2020, 09:22:47 AM
Merited by LoyceV (4)
 #10

We've had cases of gambling sites crediting accounts on their websites for users to play games with and leave a review here on the forum with no fuss being raised about it, this case roughly falls in that area.
It could very well have been an attempt to generate activity on their thread and promote their project, but the forum rules are not explicitly against their activity, so I would rather not use the trust rating in this scenario.

IINM, that should be fine for Bitcoin-focused casinos or faucets. If it's altcoins, then it's a bannable offense. Just like the recent giveaway thread which caused several Legendaries to inadvertently take the banhammer.

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May 02, 2020, 09:27:00 AM
 #11

We've had cases of gambling sites crediting accounts on their websites for users to play games with and leave a review here on the forum with no fuss being raised about it, this case roughly falls in that area.
It could very well have been an attempt to generate activity on their thread and promote their project, but the forum rules are not explicitly against their activity, so I would rather not use the trust rating in this scenario.

IINM, that should be fine for Bitcoin-focused casinos or faucets. If it's altcoins, then it's a bannable offense. Just like the recent giveaway thread which caused several Legendaries to inadvertently take the banhammer.

Our project was solely on bitcoin and Yes it is a Faucet + Crypto Advertising.

But just for promoting this in a giveaway thread I got Negative tagged.  And I was really looking for more explanation so that I can learn properly and follow footsteps of other successful Forum Senior here.

Again thanks for your time to read the conversation.
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May 02, 2020, 09:42:50 AM
 #12

Well I just wanted to bring out this thread, According to @LoyceV  's thread of Correct use of the Trust system
It is clearly mentioned that
Do's and Don'ts
Don't leave negative feedback when someone violates the forum rules. Instead, use Report to moderator for rule violations.
I am really surprised that, Sometimes rules only meant for Newbie member like us. But not for everyone.
LoyceV guide is not a rule, it is more like a recommendation how to use use trust system, so members are not obliged to follow it (even though it's a  very good guide and more people should read it and act accordingly, imho)
Regarding removing your negative feedback, have you tried  contacting @Coolcryptovator directly, and explain the issue? He is the only one that can remove it.


But whats bothering me is, How can someone Red flag a profile just for Starting forum topics without knowing one of the forum rules. Does that make him a scammer?
Ignorance is not a valid excuse for breaking forum rules, but if someone realizes his mistake and corrects it, giving 2nd chance is not a bad thing. For example, numerous accounts got perma banned for plagiarizing 1-2 posts, many of them were just a newbie accounts at the time, and probably some of them didn't know about that rule as on most of the other forums it is not so strictly enforced. Simply saying that they didn't know about the rule wasn't any help in their case. Play it safe, read all guidelines available, and when in doubt, simply ask.





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May 02, 2020, 10:20:49 AM
 #13

Oh Thank you for explaining me. I thought those guides in beginner section is about forum Rules. and we Newbie are obliged  to follow that.

However, is there any guide from Administrator/ Forum Manager regarding how to handle Trust Rating System?

And I didnt contact @Coolcryptovator directly. Can I contact him directly and ask about consideration? I don't know if I can do that. Because somewhere I read that you can not directly or indirectly ask for Trust rating and Merit giving in your post, which is against forum rules.

My only question is, Getting Negative Trust Tag for Giveaway thread bump, how justified is that in accordance to normal forum rules. ( In General )

Again Thank you everyone for considering this issue.

regards
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May 02, 2020, 12:41:19 PM
 #14

This case was brought to my attention by iconzi, so I'll respond here.

TL;DR
I think you should remove the negative feedback.

Long version
Is this not paid bumping really ? or is this not encourage for spamming ?
It is more or less. But the topic is posted in Games and rounds, and this is quite normal on that board.

Quote
I am not sure why the thread are not trash.
If you think the topic should be deleted, use Report to moderator.

Quote
According to theymos, this is against of rules.
Specifically, you are not allowed to give people any incentive to post insubstantial posts in your threads. You can't offer to pay people who post their addresses, usernames, etc. You can do giveaways off-site and link to the giveaway page in a thread, but you can't give people any bonus for replying to your thread.
You're taking that quote out of context. Theymos posted that in Altcoin Discussion, and it doesn't apply to Bitcoin giveaways on other boards.

Your feedback on iconzi shows:
Quote
He has been braking forum rules. see reference for more details.
As explained above, this is incorrect. But even if he would be breaking forum rules, it should be handled by Moderators, not through the feedback system. You were quite new back then, but I consider this Trust abuse. I checked your sent feedback, and around that time you've left many tags. I quickly looked at a few, and some of those say for instance "Spammer". I think you should review your old feedback because spam is a reason for a ban, not a tag.

Even if iconzi would have incentivized posting for an altcoin (which he didn't), he would likely have received a 30 or 60 days ban. It's been 2 years now, so any punishment should have ended a long time ago.

However, is there any guide from Administrator/ Forum Manager regarding how to handle Trust Rating System?
There are no hard rules, but this post shows theymos' intent.

In short, since Coolcryptovator trusts my judgement:
Quote
Trust list for: LoyceV (Trust: +27 / =2 / -0) (5209 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2020-05-02_Sat_05.02h)

LoyceV's judgement is Trusted by:
175. Coolcryptovator (Trust: +17 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (11) 1218 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
My recommendation is to remove this unnecessary negative feedback.

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May 02, 2020, 01:03:51 PM
 #15

My only question is, Getting Negative Trust Tag for Giveaway thread bump, how justified is that in accordance to normal forum rules. ( In General )

I don't think it is justified. But you should wait until Coolcryptovator comments about the reconsideration. Anyways, sad to say in general there are no objective guidelines for using trust ratings not even flags recently. Kinda mess !
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May 02, 2020, 03:21:09 PM
Last edit: May 02, 2020, 03:56:40 PM by iconzi
Merited by msarro (6)
 #16

Hello

I am really thankful to the community especially to all those experienced member taking their time to read this conversation and explain me as much as they can. I am really glad.

Thank you LoyceV, For explaining me in detail. The explanation post you created about the Trust Rating system helped me a lot in this scenerio.

Now about the Giveaway thread of mine there is a few fact,

1. It was originally in micro earnings section, But later according to giveaway the Admin./ or moderators moved that into Games and Round section. So I thought I am doing OK
2. One of my regular advertiser brought this issue in my knowledge by asking that, "Why your thread has scammer tag in it ?" , Otherwise there was no point of posting all these after almost 2 Years !!
3. I was originally only providing some Extra Satoshi to all bitcointalk members participating in my faucet + Advertising site.

However, I am again sorry to the community for presenting the thread in a way, which could create a lot of useless posts from my micro earner Memebers. I will be careful from next time.

To Coolcryptovator, Can you please consider my offense this time and maybe give me one more chance?  Wink


By the way, Today I got image access to post in this forum. Special thanks to that person who made it happen

With every next announcement thread of my projects ( upcoming one ) I will not forget to post the following message so my members will be careful





Regards

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May 02, 2020, 04:00:12 PM
 #17

To Coolcryptovator, Can you please consider my offense this time and maybe give me one more chance?  Wink

I suggest you should edit your ANN in a way that it won't break forum rules. although I am not making any promises that Coolcryptovator will remove his negative trust.  but it could give you some chance for him to reconsider his negative trust on you(but I still can't guarantee he will do it).

anyway, here's what theymos has to say about giveaways. it might give you an idea of what to edit/update and what is allowed and not allowed when having a giveaway.
Most giveaway threads are no longer allowed in the Alternate cryptocurrencies sections. From now on, posting or replying to such threads could result in being banned. Existing threads will be locked.

Specifically, you are not allowed to give people any incentive to post insubstantial posts in your threads. You can't offer to pay people who post their addresses, usernames, etc. You can do giveaways off-site and link to the giveaway page in a thread, but you can't give people any bonus for replying to your thread.

Similar threads are already restricted to Games and Rounds in the non-altcoin sections, but the giveaway-related post volume is so high in the altcoin sections that I've decided to just ban them entirely here.

                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                 
                                  
                                  
                                  
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May 02, 2020, 04:10:00 PM
 #18


I suggest you should edit your ANN in a way that it won't break forum rules. although I am not making any promises that Coolcryptovator will remove his negative trust.  but it could give you some chance for him to reconsider his negative trust on you(but I still can't guarantee he will do it).



Well I think, you didn't have enough time to read the whole conversation here. I would like to summarize the followings for your convenience,

1. This was my ANN title:  [ANN] ✅ CLIXCO.IN ✅- Advertise your project instant- CPC starts from 5 satoshi !  - I could clearly say there was nothing wrong in ANN title.
2. I have read about Theymos reference about the rules of Bitcoin and Altcoin giveaways.
3. My Original ANN was is Micro earnings section, and it was later moved to Games and Rounds, so I thought moderators who moved it, was still allowing this giveaway posting things.
 Whats the purpose of Games and Rounds Board? I think you know much more than me.

4. Finally this Topic was brought to my attention by one of my Biggest advertiser, otherwise until last few days, I was totally unaware of this Trust Feedback system
5. And my overall concern here was to know how Trust Feedback system actually works. Can We really Tag anyone as Scammer? if all he did was just some giveaway with some forbidden forum style
( lets assume it was forbidden)


And please read What theymos actually wrote:

Most giveaway threads are no longer allowed in the Alternate cryptocurrencies sections  - I was doing Bitcoin, Not Alt coins
Similar threads are already restricted to Games and Rounds in the non-altcoin sections,  - My thread was in Games and Rounds Segment

Thank you again
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May 04, 2020, 08:48:23 AM
 #19

Hello

Just wanted to Update you all. Finally Coolcryptovator was kind enough to reconsider my case and lift my negative feedback.

Thank you everyone who took their valuable time and give your feedback in this regard.

Until next time
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May 04, 2020, 09:03:43 AM
 #20

Hello

Just wanted to Update you all. Finally Coolcryptovator was kind enough to reconsider my case and lift my negative feedback.

Thank you everyone who took their valuable time and give your feedback in this regard.

Until next time
Its great to see that you have got the proper realisation finally and hope you will not gonna repeat something simillar in the future. As a forum user its your responsibility to follow all rules and showing enough respects too. Otherwise it could bring unexpected results anytime and your feedback was a part of that. It was just an action to give you proper knowledge about this community rules.  

Don't be a encouragement for spammers. If you have soul to do something then discourage them.  

Note: "Coolcryptovator" you can lock this topic now.





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