Rule change is a problem of all hunters.Bad team,scam or both - EPNEX.İO example

[Bonheur]

Actually this is just an example but I will tell what is happening about this project and in its telegram.
Then ask my questions about the kind of behaviour which is getting more and more common in some projects and icos.
And maybe what should be done about it.

Maybe some of you heard about epnex.io
İt is a hybrid  exchange project that started an airdrop campaign I believe in may.
This should be noted that this airdrop was something like a daily check in and other tasks like giving information about yourself for points.Not a mandatory thing.You get points everyday and then the points are changed to tokens.

From may many people participated in the campaign.
From the start there were no kyc required for airdrop participants. Their admins specified this and the screenshots are in their telegram being used by users that ask why that changed.Then they are never to be seen again in the group.
But every participant had to bound their phone and phone number.
There were no limit to participants as long as they give their phone number and a code sent to number proved that the number was in use.
İn august the team changed the rules that made many people participate.
KYC.
At first they said that there will be no kyc for airdrop participants and about 2 months later changed it.they say they can change rules whenever they want because there were cheaters. who, how, where, why did you not anticipate it in the first place?
we owe you but you have to give us your id if you want your tokens you deserved.
yes you are threatening me but I should also give you my id.
is this look like trustworthy or a good business.
Anyway...
The team decided that people needed to do kyc if they wanted to get their tokens.They claim there were cheaters.But offer no evidence.Looks like they did not anticipated how many people would join.
And again I come to bad business mangement and incompetence.
But they announced this decision through social media.
There were no warnings in offical site or when you enter your account for daily check ins.
They did not even e-mailed this to the people whom they had their telephone numbers and e-mails.
After the deadline the accounts did not get frozen.They waited a whole month so that people who does not know keep working for them.
Now.
The accounts of people who did not do kyc are frozen.Telegram admins say that the tokens in these accounts will be used in new airdrops.
They can't answer with a reasonable answer why there were no e-mail warnings.Their answer was to not spam people with e-mails.
Telegram admins are muting and banning people for a month now. Especially people who asks how many people did not do the kyc or why this changed in the first place, how many tokens are these accounts accumulate or if these tokens will go to the team or maybe some in telegram admins.The funny thing is they mute people and claim noone is complaining.
And there are some bounty hunters.I started to write this because of that actually.Some people who did the kyc were threatening people not to write things in bitcointalk and if they did they would write with 10000 more times, I don't know maybe wth new accounts.I am looking at you fred.Please write with your new accounts also, not just the 30 one and maybe epnex.io telegram admins will give you your first merit.

I never do kyc for projects I don't believe in and in these cases I never start if kyc is involved.
I did not do the kyc willingly because I don't believe this project will be a success.But I got frustated by how this is handled.
Changing rules in a whim.
Not caring what happens.
Not even giving the tokens that are earned before the rule change.
Not an explanation other than we can do this and we did. go cry over there. we will silence you.
Muting people who are complaining.And then giving generic answers knowing they can't say anything.
Making people keep on for a month after the deadline and not even burning the tokens but keeping them, and for who?
Could not anticipate what would happen if you don't set a limit to participants or the tokens in an airdrop.

I want to know if this is normal behaviour.
İs this what bounty and airdrops are going to be like, rules can change and you have to go with it.Then every bounty starts with no kyc and at the end give me your ID or I won't give you what you worked for.There is a word fo it in law.What happens when this project is live and rules can change again.

Or is this just bad decision making and incompetence of a team.Then, can you trust and invest in this project.If the team can not even anticipate or think about setting a limit or for a way for people not to cheat -I still don't buy it though, people gave their phone numbers even- how can you run a successfull business.How can anyone invest in your business? How can you even going to run an exchange with this kind of business acumen.Will you change the rules in your exchange.No, you can't withdraw if it is under 1 btc.So you are withdrawing 1 btc ehh...I changed the rule it is 2 btc now.

Or is this kind of things are calculated.Bad decision making, bad business management and maybe bad intention.In this case my personal belief is that this was intentional.This happened in other projects.Kora setting a deadline and keeping tokens is an example.Even if 10% misses the kyc the team gets a lot of tokens.And they don't want to say how many people did not do kyc.Also they did not even e-mailed and let people work for a whole month after the deadline.This is bad intention and bad intention is a no invest in my book.

Why this now if you ask? This project is an example.A good example of a bad business management, a how not to run a business if you will.
What happened is what happens with a bad team, strong against weak and lots of money. And looks like this is happening a lot in the market.Not good indications from the start.

But should this happen and should people just accept it? There are a lot of twits about epnex.io being a scam, people getting robbed, that people should not invest in it.This just shows that what happened hurt some people and they are alone.They are bounty hunters like us.I did not care enough for this to write something until today a bounty hunter thratened another not to open a topic in bitcointalk.I don't know if he did write.But here I am.

Are airdrop and bounty hunters this powerless everytime. Are projects can change rules halfway in the campaigns? İs this fair? İf someone is doing this from the start can you trust your own money to them? Is decentralisation means noone can say anything about anything to project teams? Are we alone?Just because you want a projects success should you not see the people whose efforts are stolen?
I believe we should stick together.Whether we are in a bounty or not.They can do this because there is no support system for bounty hunters and maybe it should.I don't know.I may be a bit naive.

Thats my rant.Thank you for listening.

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[Mateixcardinals]

That was not only well put but also honest.  This was my experience along with thousands of others.  I spent 3 months of daily check-ins and getting a few friends to also join they pulled the rug from under us.  Mandatory KYC was never mentioned on the website.  They have us the option to KYC for extra 800 point reward but I try to avoid handing over all my personal info.  They claim that it was all over their social media sites.  I strongly disagree. 

     What is even more concerning is what they expected from us.  They have openly admitted to lack of communication but at same time if we believed in their project we should of become diciples to Lord Epiphany and always kept up to date on their telegram.  Uhhhh what about the website we clicked on everyday?  Couldn't mention something there?  How about an email?  You have enough of everyone's personal info to very easily let it be known.

    The worst part was watching how the admins treated everyone. 

Do me a favor and look at their social media sites.
Facebook-hahaha
Reddit-a joke
Medium-seriously? Why even be on there
Twitter-sorta there sometimes.
Telegram-only place they hang out.

I truly believe this was all a scheme to gain users personal info to then be sold to the highest bidder.  This project will be dead within the year and I will be there to watch.

   There is some great competition out there.  An exchange on the NEO platform is not a revolutionary idea.  There is only room for a few and Epiphany will not be 1.

[Tylev]

This is all, of course, not normal. The requirement to provide various additional information from participants of the ICO generosity campaign in the middle of a campaign or after it should be considered a fraud for not paying out the earned tokens. Perhaps, when this activity will be regulated by the state, then the rights and obligations of the ICO team will be clearly indicated and I hope that they will not have the right to demand any confidential information from the bounty hunters at all.

[matthaus]

Yep epiphany stuffed me around too. Had a bunch of tokens I worked for. Referred quite a few people and did the daily login thing almost every day. They just simply shut down my account never contacting me about anything. What the heck is going on?

[Bonheur]

This is all, of course, not normal. The requirement to provide various additional information from participants of the ICO generosity campaign in the middle of a campaign or after it should be considered a fraud for not paying out the earned tokens. Perhaps, when this activity will be regulated by the state, then the rights and obligations of the ICO team will be clearly indicated and I hope that they will not have the right to demand any confidential information from the bounty hunters at all.

If a company tries to change the rules halfway they should at least have the deceny to give people a choise to not do the kyc and get the tokens to that point.Otherwise this is just calculated and full of bad intentions.
Lets think about an example.An airdrop announcement that says there will be no kyc.5000 bounty hunters enters the airdrop.Lets say 500 or more of them are people who would not risk their personal information for an airdrop and if there were kyc would not even apply.At the end of the campaign the team changes the rules and says there are strange things happening and all of the people has to do kyc and also if they don't do kyc their tokens are theirs.What would you do?Would you give in and give this kind of people your id for a lousy airdrop.Of course no.They just got away 500 people worth of tokens.Bam.Easy.
We should at least be able to say we are not happy.

[Vektrum]

Of course, changing the rules on the part of the ICO team, especially at the end of the ICO or even after its completion, is a very big problem now for bounty hunters. In the last it happens almost in large quantities. I especially don’t like it if the team decides not to send the earned tokens to our wallets, but forces us to register on their websites or their new exchangers, to provide various additional information in order to have a personal account where the new tokens will be transferred. Sometimes it is very difficult to understand. I already have several such storage sites for tokens. I am very unhappy about this, because it all makes me nervous.

[Mateixcardinals]

I believe it is waaaaaaaay more than 500..  telegram has 14,000 followers.  Look at other social sites.  There it's like 1200 at most.  I am confident in saying it is well into the thousands of people who got scammed.

[Pamahaw]

I want to know if this is normal behaviour.
İs this what bounty and airdrops are going to be like, rules can change and you have to go with it.Then every bounty starts with no kyc and at the end give me your ID or I won't give you what you worked for.There is a word fo it in law.What happens when this project is live and rules can change again.

Changing the rules after the game or even if it is ongoing is not fair to bounty hunters side but they did this almost too often and this became a norm even though it is immoral. Just ignore this airdrop and look for another one that don't require KYC if you don't want to give up your identification. Anyway it is just penny as it is only airdrops.

[Bonheur]

I want to know if this is normal behaviour.
İs this what bounty and airdrops are going to be like, rules can change and you have to go with it.Then every bounty starts with no kyc and at the end give me your ID or I won't give you what you worked for.There is a word fo it in law.What happens when this project is live and rules can change again.

Changing the rules after the game or even if it is ongoing is not fair to bounty hunters side but they did this almost too often and this became a norm even though it is immoral. Just ignore this airdrop and look for another one that don't require KYC if you don't want to give up your identification. Anyway it is just penny as it is only airdrops.

I already did.I never give kyc for airdrops.I only did that for an ico I believed.But never for pocket change.
I did not do the kyc in this particular project knowingly but from what I saw from their telegram group -which I have been muted- and the way they are dealing people made me angry.A couple fanboys even threatened people not to write anything in bitcointalk.

They think just because it is a small amount noone would bother to make a fuss.A lot of people do that.They say whatever and go.They want us to just that.They think noone can say anything and noone can do anything.But we should.We should at least say something and then go.

Either way unfair or calculated, people need to know about this I believe.

Also this should not be a norm.Every team in icos should know that if they change rules after the fact just to reduce the token they should give people who would invest would hear about how they handle their business.

[Endikadija]

I want to know if this is normal behaviour.
İs this what bounty and airdrops are going to be like, rules can change and you have to go with it.Then every bounty starts with no kyc and at the end give me your ID or I won't give you what you worked for.There is a word fo it in law.What happens when this project is live and rules can change again.

Changing the rules after the game or even if it is ongoing is not fair to bounty hunters side but they did this almost too often and this became a norm even though it is immoral. Just ignore this airdrop and look for another one that don't require KYC if you don't want to give up your identification. Anyway it is just penny as it is only airdrops.

Lol how can we give our KYC to these people that possible scammer? Airdrop is sucked because it has been used by scammer. So many times these airdrop hunters are being scammed and the majority of them have sent their KYC to the scam ico. I guess they have been collecting so many identities.

[lifeson4]

yes this ico has been ruined by shortsighted management....first they dont need kyc...then they suprise everybody and say they do after they have used the community...the telegram channel has ruined this ico...the poor investors who invested in this have been ruined by this mismanagement...epnex.io is basically run by idiots

[tenebriscaelum]

To be honest it is the right of any company to change or update their rules or policies as long as it will either benefit the the project or the investors and contributors(managers, devs, bounty hunters) behind it, however if these changes and update are very questionable to you or you doubt that it will benefit you it is your right to object and leave that campaign also you if you think that these people in the forum have broken its policies you can always report then or at least make other members or co-bounty hunters aware of what they are doing

[Mateixcardinals]

You are absolutely correct. All projects have fine print that the rules can change and they do change all the time. But this is unprecedented. To go from no kyc needed but will need to kyc to take off of The Exchange. Have your community check in Daily for 3 months Then straight to we need a kyc before were are even beta testing. Not only that you have 30 days where you lose everything. And by the way you're only going to find this out through Twitter or Telegram. You remember when you gave us your phone number email address well we're not going to use any of those Avenues. Basically only Telegram. And the admins are absolutely horrible. Sorry missed it get over it.

[muncuss]

Lol how can we give our KYC to these people that possible scammer? Airdrop is sucked because it has been used by scammer. So many times these airdrop hunters are being scammed and the majority of them have sent their KYC to the scam ico. I guess they have been collecting so many identities.

And ironically ppl love those kind of airdrop with KYC, saying it's legit bcoz it's airdrop with KYC, lol. They happily give their identity for a penny. Don't know maybe it only happen in crypto community in my country.

Ands important thing bounty hunter now need to remember is always join bounty with good rep. manager, coz now is common ico team change rules in the end of bounty period.
"U need to accept my new rules or no tokens, this is my project, i can do whatever i like" lol they just want free advertising

[fuer44]

actually that's normal, mate. nowadays there are lots of bounties and airdrops that require kyc, but I am just like you not to do it. but if at the beginning of the bounty or airdrop does not require kyc, but in the middle of the road they require kyc, I never met it. you take the right steps because they are not necessarily trustworthy.

[Rrtt]

Lol how can we give our KYC to these people that possible scammer? Airdrop is sucked because it has been used by scammer. So many times these airdrop hunters are being scammed and the majority of them have sent their KYC to the scam ico. I guess they have been collecting so many identities.

And ironically ppl love those kind of airdrop with KYC, saying it's legit bcoz it's airdrop with KYC, lol. They happily give their identity for a penny. Don't know maybe it only happen in crypto community in my country.

Ands important thing bounty hunter now need to remember is always join bounty with good rep. manager, coz now is common ico team change rules in the end of bounty period.
"U need to accept my new rules or no tokens, this is my project, i can do whatever i like" lol they just want free advertising

KYC on airdrops is insane even if it is a legit one. On my view, why would they require KYC on airdrops when all they want is advertisement? There must be something else behind their mind and it is not good.

[muncuss]

And ironically ppl love those kind of airdrop with KYC, saying it's legit bcoz it's airdrop with KYC, lol. They happily give their identity for a penny. Don't know maybe it only happen in crypto community in my country.

Ands important thing bounty hunter now need to remember is always join bounty with good rep. manager, coz now is common ico team change rules in the end of bounty period.
"U need to accept my new rules or no tokens, this is my project, i can do whatever i like" lol they just want free advertising

KYC on airdrops is insane even if it is a legit one. On my view, why would they require KYC on airdrops when all they want is advertisement? There must be something else behind their mind and it is not good.

On good airdrop, kyc is used to prevent cheater/fraud account/fake referral etc. But from beginning of year when i join polymath airdrop until now, i can count less than 10 were good airdrop. rest are just want to take your identity and sold it somewhere or used in wrong way.
and that polymath is my first and last i join airdrop with kyc

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

I think every rule that changes on the bounty is only natural, maybe the bounty manager has a change from the original plan, and in my opinion every bounty that we follow must have a rule which says that the bounty manager can change the rules, time of bounty and allocation at any time.

[Omega Weapon]

This is getting more and more common, to me this is just an excuse to not pay their participants, they do not really need that information what they are doing is that they are trying to save themselves a lot of coins so in the future they can organize another campaign like that and instead of reducing their own share of tokens they can use the tokens that they did not distribute.

[Bonheur]

To be honest it is the right of any company to change or update their rules or policies as long as it will either benefit the the project or the investors and contributors(managers, devs, bounty hunters) behind it, however if these changes and update are very questionable to you or you doubt that it will benefit you it is your right to object and leave that campaign also you if you think that these people in the forum have broken its policies you can always report then or at least make other members or co-bounty hunters aware of what they are doing

Actually thats just what I am doing.I don't think I lost anything because I never do kyc for an airdrop.But people are treated very badly in the telegram group and at least other bounty hunters should hear about this and know what is going on.

Other than bounty hunters, even if it get so common to change rules after a campaign starts, that just shows lack of competence, short sightness and if I were an investor I would want to know that kind of things about an ico I am inspecting for my future investments.