Are the new NZ customs laws a problem for holders of bitcoin?

[randall_boss]

I was reading that New Zealand is the latest place to pass laws granting customs agents investigatory powers including the right to force travelers to disclose their passwords or face a $5,000 fine. I travel a lot, and hold bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, and I guess I'm worried... should I be?

[Lucius]

I was reading that New Zealand is the latest place to pass laws granting customs agents investigatory powers including the right to force travelers to disclose their passwords or face a $5,000 fine. I travel a lot, and hold bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, and I guess I'm worried... should I be?

This is really true news, and it is greatly annoyed most of the passengers who planned to visit this country. But some things should be clarified because everything is not as bad as it seems.

Customs officials can ask any passengers for device passwords or PIN, but to do that you need to be suspicious - this is not something what will apply to all passengers. Furthermore inspection of device is performed only in flight mode, so data on user cloud are not subject to this inspection, and if in some case user refuse to reveal his password he/she will pay fine in the amount of 5000$ NZD which is converted to US dollars about 3200$.

Solution for this is to not have cryptocurrency wallet on your phone when you visit NZ, try to remember your seed and recover your wallet after you pass custom control.

More info : NZ to fine travellers who refuse to hand over phone passwords at border

[buwaytress]

If you're referring to the digital strip search on that Customs and Excise Act, then yeah utter bollocks. Note, you actually only have to provide the password to the device they want to search (phone,laptops etc) and not the password or private key to your Bitcoin wallet... Also apparently it doesn't let them ask for passwords to data stored on clouds.

So yeah, bummer if you have Electrum on mobile, it wouldn't let them access it but they would know you use crypto and might ask to declare.

Just don't put any wallets in public view. Restore and use when needed then delete as Lucius says. Or... Have a red herring wallet ready for such cases.

Stupid, stupid act but many other countries already violate privacy at airports. Been asked to open my laptop once already... Not in NZ.

[Harlot]

Solution for this is to not have cryptocurrency wallet on your phone when you visit NZ, try to remember your seed and recover your wallet after you pass custom control.

I'm surprise that they only want to know your phone's password and your laptops are not inspected at all. Based on the news your smartphones are the only ones requiring them for inspection but there is no mention of laptops being inspected. They might just be doing this mandatory inspection for convenience as unlocking a phone is a much more faster way compared to booting up your laptop. I am beginning to think that this is purely a BS regulation as this does not do anything on what they are trying to reach.

[gentlemand]

I was reading that New Zealand is the latest place to pass laws granting customs agents investigatory powers including the right to force travelers to disclose their passwords or face a $5,000 fine. I travel a lot, and hold bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, and I guess I'm worried... should I be?

Worried about what?

I guess if they have laws about bringing in money they might refine them to include crypto. In most places they won't count but may some day.

If I was worked up about it I would probably delete the important stuff and restore them once on the other side. As ever it's the USA I'd be a lot more conscious of considering how much they enjoy stealing money from innocent people.

American wording is that you have to declare currency and monetary instruments - https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/332/kw/332/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xNTM5MTA4NTgxL3NpZC9oMm9XTFFZbg%3D%3D

Crypto will no doubt become one at some point.

[squatter]

If I was worked up about it I would probably delete the important stuff and restore them once on the other side. As ever it's the USA I'd be a lot more conscious of considering how much they enjoy stealing money from innocent people.

American wording is that you have to declare currency and monetary instruments - https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/332/kw/332/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xNTM5MTA4NTgxL3NpZC9oMm9XTFFZbg%3D%3D

Crypto will no doubt become one at some point.

It might be under current laws. Obviously it's never been tested for cryptocurrency, but for example, gold coins are explicitly declarable. Here's one opinion:

Travelers entering the United States at the border are already obligated to declare any currency holdings of $10,000 or more, regardless of whether or not custom officials might have the means to detect those holdings. While digital currencies occupy a somewhat unusual place in many portions of finance law, a report by Smaulgld suggests that the situation is relatively clear in this case. Because digital currencies technically accompany a holder anywhere that he or she goes, including across a border, that traveler would need to declare his or her entire cryptocurrency portfolio every time he or she enters the United States. This is different from the requirements of travelers who hold bank accounts and/or precious metals valued at more than $10,000 which are stored outside of the country.

Indeed, some US senators have been trying for the last couple legislative sessions to explicitly have digital currencies included (among other things):

The proposed bill, designated U.S. Bill S.1241, was introduced on May 25 of this year and co-sponsored by Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA), Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), and Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI). The bipartisan group of Senators who have put the bill forward hope that it will deter individuals entering the United States from bringing in undetected and undeclared assets in the form of digital currencies such as Bitcoin and Ethereum.

In either the US or NZ, it seems most of us agree. The easiest course is to delete any cryptocurrency wallets and restore from seed later.

[dunfida]

Solution for this is to not have cryptocurrency wallet on your phone when you visit NZ, try to remember your seed and recover your wallet after you pass custom control.

I'm surprise that they only want to know your phone's password and your laptops are not inspected at all. Based on the news your smartphones are the only ones requiring them for inspection but there is no mention of laptops being inspected. They might just be doing this mandatory inspection for convenience as unlocking a phone is a much more faster way compared to booting up your laptop. I am beginning to think that this is purely a BS regulation as this does not do anything on what they are trying to reach.

They would already breaking privacy issues if they do ask out even cloud passwords even just asking on your phones password is already considered but since we are just visiting on that country then we wont really have any choice but to cooperate even if we do see that they don't have much right on personal belongings. If we don't really hassle and bust out $3200 then better not to show any signs of crypto-related apps then you would sure pass out.

[randall_boss]

Thank you everyone for your comments to date, greatly appreciated. Makes me feel a little better and I'll do some of the things that you are all suggesting

[Lucius]

Solution for this is to not have cryptocurrency wallet on your phone when you visit NZ, try to remember your seed and recover your wallet after you pass custom control.

I'm surprise that they only want to know your phone's password and your laptops are not inspected at all. Based on the news your smartphones are the only ones requiring them for inspection but there is no mention of laptops being inspected. They might just be doing this mandatory inspection for convenience as unlocking a phone is a much more faster way compared to booting up your laptop. I am beginning to think that this is purely a BS regulation as this does not do anything on what they are trying to reach.

It seems that this measure is directed only towards mobile phones, but the main reason for introducing such measures is to prevent people in bring some prohibited documents to NZ or take some to other countries. NZ customs spokeswoman said : “The shift from paper-based systems to electronic systems has meant that the majority of prohibited material and documents are now stored electronically,”

Base on that statement all devices should be subject to possible inspections, phone can be completely clean (maybe even new one), but according to this law person can have anything in laptop or external hard drive/USB stick.

This news is maybe misinterpreted the law, however if this is not case then just store all sensitive data (included crypto wallets) on your laptop or hardware device and let them to check you phone.

[audaciousbeing]

I was reading that New Zealand is the latest place to pass laws granting customs agents investigatory powers including the right to force travelers to disclose their passwords or face a $5,000 fine. I travel a lot, and hold bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, and I guess I'm worried... should I be?

If that is the rule, then there is no point fighting it rather find a way to comply or avoid being caught in those they would choose to make an example out of. Its common for immigration officials hiding under the rule of security check to start invading the privacy of other people and because they know you are in the position of weakness, overzealous officials tend to abuse the process far and beyond what is stated in the policy or rule book.

Way out, just uninstall whatever app you have on your phone prior to travelling but be sure to keep your private key with you. The moment you pass through security check, get access to the internet and download again without any issue. There is no point making a fuss out of it and policies can be changed depending on the amount of information they have at the time they were making such policy.

[magneto]

I don't think that it'll be much of an issue for bitcoin holders. It is a huge breach of privacy for sure and I'd for this reason probably think twice before travelling there again, but it doesn't really pose any more risk to bitcoin holders.

Firstly, there is no rules in terms of you can't bring bitcoin into the country. Secondly, you're not actually bringing bitcoin into the country.

Bitcoins remain in an address that does not physically move. You can easily copy down an encrypted version of the private keys onto paper, or even use an online wallet for the time that you're travelling there in order to circumvent the customs laws.

[Harlot]

I'm surprise that they only want to know your phone's password and your laptops are not inspected at all. Based on the news your smartphones are the only ones requiring them for inspection but there is no mention of laptops being inspected. They might just be doing this mandatory inspection for convenience as unlocking a phone is a much more faster way compared to booting up your laptop. I am beginning to think that this is purely a BS regulation as this does not do anything on what they are trying to reach.

It seems that this measure is directed only towards mobile phones, but the main reason for introducing such measures is to prevent people in bring some prohibited documents to NZ or take some to other countries. NZ customs spokeswoman said : “The shift from paper-based systems to electronic systems has meant that the majority of prohibited material and documents are now stored electronically,”

Base on that statement all devices should be subject to possible inspections, phone can be completely clean (maybe even new one), but according to this law person can have anything in laptop or external hard drive/USB stick.

This news is maybe misinterpreted the law, however if this is not case then just store all sensitive data (included crypto wallets) on your laptop or hardware device and let them to check you phone.

I see, good thing that you clarified that as I am only seeing a lot of news saying that their phones are being inspected which has lead me to think that other devices are not inspected. But upon searching other news article it says that other devices are inspected as well, the nytimes' article specifically mentioned digital devices and not only mobile phones, but still this is a lame law to see and it violates a lot of privacy issues for both their citizens and foreigers.

[Lucius]

I see, good thing that you clarified that as I am only seeing a lot of news saying that their phones are being inspected which has lead me to think that other devices are not inspected. But upon searching other news article it says that other devices are inspected as well, the nytimes' article specifically mentioned digital devices and not only mobile phones, but still this is a lame law to see and it violates a lot of privacy issues for both their citizens and foreigers.

Perhaps the law which is introduced in NZ is just beginning of general practice that will soon start to apply in other countries as well. Some other countries like USA and Australia also carry out controls of electronic devices, but for now they do not have such strict laws.

In my opinion respect for privacy is something that is slowly dying in today's society and people will have to adapt. There is no doubt that this includes cryptocurrency wallets on all devices, if someone wants to remain anonymous in this regard, then the simplest solution is to not have crypto wallets or anything related to crypto on devices in international travel.

[gentlemand]

I see, good thing that you clarified that as I am only seeing a lot of news saying that their phones are being inspected which has lead me to think that other devices are not inspected. But upon searching other news article it says that other devices are inspected as well, the nytimes' article specifically mentioned digital devices and not only mobile phones, but still this is a lame law to see and it violates a lot of privacy issues for both their citizens and foreigers.

Does anyone honestly expect it to be phone only? If you arrived with your suicide vest they're not going to check your phone and let you skip away unchecked with your laptop and tablet bursting with your evil plans. It's going to apply to every single thing you have on you.

[squatter]

In my opinion respect for privacy is something that is slowly dying in today's society and people will have to adapt. There is no doubt that this includes cryptocurrency wallets on all devices, if someone wants to remain anonymous in this regard, then the simplest solution is to not have crypto wallets or anything related to crypto on devices in international travel.

That's the simplest solution in this instance, but it's indicative of a larger problem. I remember hearing of information security folks that don't even carry personal PCs, tablets and phones through US airports anymore -- only brand new devices. Or they buy new devices after they land.

At least with cryptocurrency, we can use deterministic wallets and be unaffected by this.

[timerland]

I was reading that New Zealand is the latest place to pass laws granting customs agents investigatory powers including the right to force travelers to disclose their passwords or face a $5,000 fine. I travel a lot, and hold bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, and I guess I'm worried... should I be?

This is only a check that you have to comply with at customs.

It has nothing to do with new restrictions in terms of bringing bitcoins into the country or even holding bitcoins. That in itself does not cinstitute any crime, so even if they search your phone and find bitcoin wallets or addresses, they can't prosecute you unless the state laws say that.

But it probably has security concerns if you do hold bitcoins on your phone, you're letting people access your private keys potentially without you knowing whether it's stolen. And also it raises huge issues in terms of privacy principles. So for that reason, I'd still be extremely careful in wiping bitcoin data off your device before you enter.

[figmentofmyass]

But it probably has security concerns if you do hold bitcoins on your phone, you're letting people access your private keys potentially without you knowing whether it's stolen.

customs agents have been demanding not just phone passwords, but social media and other passwords. eventually, that'll include the password to your mobile bitcoin wallet for sure. people will have to choose between not cooperating with customs agents and giving up access to their coins (and wallet history).

And also it raises huge issues in terms of privacy principles. So for that reason, I'd still be extremely careful in wiping bitcoin data off your device before you enter.

i was always paranoid about this stuff. i worry the mere presence of anything bitcoin-related on my person could land me on a shitlist---i've already been stuck in airport interrogations before bitcoin was invented. when it comes to flying, i never leave bitcoin apps on my phone or in my browser history and i encrypt everything on my PC.

[marcbitcoins]

I was reading that New Zealand is the latest place to pass laws granting customs agents investigatory powers including the right to force travelers to disclose their passwords or face a $5,000 fine. I travel a lot, and hold bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, and I guess I'm worried... should I be?

Well this is applicable only to the cellphones and laptop to ensure the safety of the passengers during the flight or to ensure you are not involved in money laundering. If their is nothing to hide then you will just open your gadgets for them then enjoy the flight. Regarding crypto concern, they will not touch it as they could monitor all of the transactions in their local exchanges in which all are KYC compliant.