How will blockchain affect the taxing system?

[stompix]

My bad, bounties ruin my brain.

At least you know the culprit...

C'mon man, no need to explain what is blockchain to me.

When cryptocurrencies used in the everyday transaction (perhaps replacing fiat), the government will lose control of money, they couldn't force people to pay taxes. Therefore, governance would be similar to decred, smart cash, etc., with proposals (vote using smart contract).

It doesn't matter if you wanted to say DAO and not ICO the whole idea that we need something blockchain related for people to cast an electronic vote is childish. Two years before bitcoin was even born we had a whole country using a cryptographic vote in their election. So, no need for tokens, blockchains, ICO, DAO, or AOE. (in case you're wondering, AOE stands for Age of Empires)

Second, people have this weird idea that once cryptos take over governments won't be able to tax you. Seriously? Governments were able to tax you when there were no credit/debit cards, when there were no cash registers and receipts, there were able to tax you even when there was no fiat!!!!

What do you think it will change if cryptos take over?

A company will still need to employ people and pay them and have a balance sheet ready for fiscal inspectors, they will need to declare what they pay you, if they fail to do so, they are going to be in trouble and they won't risk millions for pennies.

Same for stores, they will have to declare what they have sold and they are going to pay both the VAT and the tax on profits otherwise they are going to be in trouble.
Of course, you can hide the income for 100 beers sold today, but how the hell are you going to hide the fact that you purchased and sold those 100 beers when both the beer factory and the customers will demands receipt for those?

This wet dream that suddenly the government won't be able to tax you once you deal in crypto is nothing more than a dream, and a pretty silly one from my point of view.

[mu_enrico]

It doesn't matter if you wanted to say DAO and not ICO the whole idea that we need something blockchain related for people to cast an electronic vote is childish. Two years before bitcoin was even born we had a whole country using a cryptographic vote in their election. So, no need for tokens, blockchains, ICO, DAO, or AOE.

If what you mean by "childish" is having imaginations then yes, voting on a blockchain is childish. I saw how ETH smart contracts enabling "carbon vote" and realized how cool it was.

Second, people have this weird idea that once cryptos take over governments won't be able to tax you. Seriously? Governments were able to tax you when there were no credit/debit cards when there were no cash registers and receipts, there were able to tax you even when there was no fiat!!!!

What do you think it will change if cryptos take over?

It is not weird though, I reckon Obama also worried about the "Swiss offshore account in your pocket."

A company will still need to employ people and pay them and have a balance sheet ready for fiscal inspectors, they will need to declare what they pay you, if they fail to do so, they are going to be in trouble and they won't risk millions for pennies.

Same for stores, they will have to declare what they have sold and they are going to pay both the VAT and the tax on profits otherwise they are going to be in trouble.
Of course, you can hide the income for 100 beers sold today, but how the hell are you going to hide the fact that you purchased and sold those 100 beers when both the beer factory and the customers will demands receipt for those?

I know about accounting, it has to be audited. The way the government detects corporation's fishy behavior is by sniffing corporation's, shareholders', and officers' bank account. Without access to the actual balance/accounts, tax enforcement would be difficult.

This wet dream that suddenly the government won't be able to tax you once you deal in crypto is nothing more than a dream, and a pretty silly one from my point of view.

Maybe you just need more imagination lol. It is silly for now, but I won't dismiss the possibility of these things to be true just because it seems impossible for now, even if the odds are so small.

[geberger]

The recent exposé about the Trump family finances shines a light on the ways in which the wealthiest Americans can avoid estate and gift taxes on the transfer of assets to their children.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/11/opinion/trump-bezos-estate-tax.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

"Like Donald Trump, many of the Forbes 400 acquired some or all of their wealth from their parents. These transfers of wealth pass entirely free of income taxes."

The measure of a well-functioning democracy is a tax system that fairly apportions its burdens.

Can blockchain and the inevitable virtual economy make the taxing system less disproportionate?

I think blockcahin won't affect nor they applied any tax in future. Since paying tax mean giving money to government and help to improve our country and economy. But block chain technology is different and don't have any relation with government policy.

[vasilev456]

Wow.  The head of state still runs from paying taxes, I am amazed by the current rulers of the countries!

[stompix]

If what you mean by "childish" is having imaginations then yes, voting on a blockchain is childish. I saw how ETH smart contracts enabling "carbon vote" and realized how cool it was.

It doesn't matter how cool or if it is possible.
You vote also using WOW accounts and it would be cool, the problem is that it means another system to be put up in place when we already have an existent one.  Id cards with cryptographic signatures have been out for a decade, why add a blockchain, a token, another wallet when the solution is there, working and tested in a national election?

It is not weird though, I reckon Obama also worried about the "Swiss offshore account in your pocket."

No idea what that has to do with the discussion so I'll pass

I know about accounting, it has to be audited. The way the government detects corporation's fishy behavior is by sniffing corporation's, shareholders', and officers' bank account. Without access to the actual balance/accounts, tax enforcement would be difficult.

I live in eastern Europe, and we're seriously lagging behind compared to the western part but even here, it takes two clicks to check on a company, or a person to see where he is hired and how much he makes and what taxes he has paid. And...no blockchain, simple databases.

Maybe you just need more imagination lol. It is silly for now, but I won't dismiss the possibility of these things to be true just because it seems impossible for now, even if the odds are so small.

Exactly what I asked you...
How do you see this tax evasion going on? How are you going to hide your income, your property, your ...everything?

The government has to change one law, increase the penalty for tax evasion to 20-30 years in prison.
Look at how Americans are paying their taxes although they despise them from the core of their heart, imagine increasing the punishment ten folds, who do you think it will take those risks? Even hardcore bitcoins here are paying their taxes, look at how many discussions we have on this in the legal board and on many others.

So, how do you envision this tax evasion going on?

[mu_enrico]

I do not think this is a productive discussion since we are talking about future and uncertainties, much like a discussion about VoIP when there are landlines everywhere. Why this, why that? Does not matter this is just hypothetical. Moreover, you are not open to the new idea. But the most important thing, this is getting off-topic. OP talk about double taxation (tax on inheritance) lol

Id cards with cryptographic signatures have been out for a decade, why add a blockchain, a token, another wallet when the solution is there, working and tested in a national election?

One most important reason is privacy. I would say with the carbon vote you would be able to vote anonymously.
Then until now, people were getting used to the idea of an equal vote (one person one vote), each person/vote carry the exact same strength. With the carbon vote, voting power determined by the balance (or anything you want in the smart contract).

It is not weird though, I reckon Obama also worried about the "Swiss offshore account in your pocket."

No idea what that has to do with the discussion so I'll pass

I live in eastern Europe

Feels weird man https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304405X17302362

I live in eastern Europe, and we're seriously lagging behind compared to the western part but even here, it takes two clicks to check on a company, or a person to see where he is hired and how much he makes and what taxes he has paid. And...no blockchain, simple databases.

In the database, we know about "garbage in, garbage out" the fact that you could check people's wealth easily is because they (average Joes) could not hide it. If they have Swiss offshore accounts in their pocket, the government need to rely more on self-assessment tax, which depends on honesty.

[stompix]

Ok, lets cut the off-topic but I need to add two things..

I do not think this is a productive discussion since we are talking about future and uncertainties,

Of course, we talk about the future, if we talked about the present it would be quite boring, wouldn't it? 

I live in eastern Europe

Feels weird man https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304405X17302362

The first word I read there was "Russia", and for most people in the former Warsaw Pact block, well...how can I say it without being rude to the Russian born users, we kind of don't see Russia as really being an example of a truly European country or being part of Europe. 50 years are pretty hard to forget even now. Even without that, Russia is a really bad example of reducing bureaucracy and digitalizing services.
 

[ganlianshifu1]

The transactions on the blockchain are transparent, and there is no way to delete records. The blockchain provides the source of the transaction, traceability and transparency!
This provides a basis for tax collection and changes the entire tax system!

[cintamoni]

The recent exposé about the Trump family finances shines a light on the ways in which the wealthiest Americans can avoid estate and gift taxes on the transfer of assets to their children.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/11/opinion/trump-bezos-estate-tax.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

"Like Donald Trump, many of the Forbes 400 acquired some or all of their wealth from their parents. These transfers of wealth pass entirely free of income taxes."

The measure of a well-functioning democracy is a tax system that fairly apportions its burdens.

Can blockchain and the inevitable virtual economy make the taxing system less disproportionate?

When you send money you just pay little fee to block chain not giving any tax that's why we all love bitcoin and block chain technology its just a tax free plat form.

[Herbys]

The blockchain technology can help prevent fraud in tax collection and solve the problem of falsifying tax bills, and these are revenues to the budget and benefits to the state.

But that's not all they want.

[sinkfish]

once transaction is blockchain, you can hardly escape from taxation. government can track your money. which mean better taxation.

[squog]

As far as i can see, blockchains habe a way of being transparent like any other means of exchange can do. Although blockchains only reflect where a coin is from to a wallet it would be. A person could own multiple wallets or could have a wallet under a different name. Not unless we have KYCs on all wallets to avoid such a transaction.

[spongegar]

I don't think so. I mean blockchain technology is as transparent as they could be. Everyone could see transactions and i believe in the future that we can look all these transactions up in a touch of a button. This way, we can see and verify more clearly the taxes we need to apply. Bonus, no need to aoply for tax returns.

[magneto]

If there was to be a completely electronic national currency that is run on a blockchain, then I think that it would make it a lot easier for countries to see everyone's spendings and income, in order to give an accurate tax assessment.

However, that would obviously raise privacy and surveillance issues which imo, definitely outweigh the benefits that this system brings to the government in terms of collecting its revenue.

This really has nothing to do with the decentralised cryptos that we are familiar with, though. Right now, tax rules are still being written to clarify the situation with bitcoin and other cryptos. There are still a lot of ambiguities, but in the future, they will be cleared up. But countries nationalising cryptos of its own could be possible in the future, with decentralised cryptos being used in parallel.

[zeingrind777]

In my opinion, utilizing blockchain technology in the taxation system is an efficient way. By utilizing blockchain technology, the tax system will strive for safe transparency, without having to disclose data that is very confidential.

[darewaller]

Apparently people can pay their taxes with bitcoin in ohio state now. Don't think that it is a minor thing, if people can start paying their taxes in one state, in only goes faster. Weed has been around for decades and governments have been fighting against it and only recently has started to legalize weed in some states, if ohio started to accept bitcoin as a payment for taxes it means the rest of the country is watching and just like colarado getting a lot of weed money, if ohio gets a lot of taxes from bitcoin it means other states will want to do the same for more money for their pockets. Hence it might look small for now but it means a lot for the future, bitcoin is literally accepted by a government as a payment to them, not only acceptable to use but also supported. This only means amazing things for all of us.